Mesa Shootout Mark 2C+, Mark 7, JP2C

Definitely some truths to this (and applies to a lot of other vintage/collectable gear). I was lucky enough to buy a couple IIC+ when you pick them up around 2k usd (which was already a lot of money at the time for a 20+ year old amp) and dont plan on selling them so got no vested financial interest in this. I do think they sound different however, build methods, electronic components, transformers have changed a lot since 1984 and a modern amp just cant sound the same. On the flip end, a Mark III or IV can really get you extremely close to the tone/feel of a C+ and at this point it would just be a difference in flavour. Never tried a Mark VII so would be curious to see how it sounds
I can agree with this. Almost every properly serviced and up to snuff vintage amp I’ve played has blown away just about most modern amps I’ve tried in terms of clarity and sheer percussive power regardless of master volume taper quality or lack thereof.

I still haven’t tried a 2C+. I see them pop for sale on CL and OU from time to time that I guess I could ask seller to try but I hate tire kicker buyers so that’s not really an option for me. I have a MKIII red, MKIV and JP2C and feel like I’m missing nothing. I have the Neural DSP 2C+ and it sounds closest to my III but that’s moot.
 
I feel like too many IIC+ owners like to protect the legacy of that amp too much. That extra 5-10% because its a "feel thing" is an excuse to justifying what price you paid for it.
Confirmation bias is a very real thing with these high dollar amps.

I’ve seen several comments saying how this amp can’t be as good as this one because it doesn’t cost as much.
 
I can agree with this. Almost every properly serviced and up to snuff vintage amp I’ve played has blown away just about most modern amps I’ve tried in terms of clarity and sheer percussive power regardless of master volume taper quality or lack thereof.

I still haven’t tried a 2C+. I see them pop for sale on CL and OU from time to time that I guess I could ask seller to try but I hate tire kicker buyers so that’s not really an option for me. I have a MKIII red, MKIV and JP2C and feel like I’m missing nothing. I have the Neural DSP 2C+ and it sounds closest to my III but that’s moot.
Pretty sure you will be underwhelmed if you just try one quickly. Like all Marks they are tricky to dial in properly and every amp will sound different so you would need to really spend some time with the amp to find what settings are best for this particular one. I would say if perfectly dialed in it will have a slight edge over other newer Mesas as it has that slightly more raw and spongy feel but it's very easy to make one sound like shit if not dialed in right!

I think where it really excels compared to a Mark III or IV are the lower gain / higher MV settings tones. Volume 1 around 7 and Lead Gain around 5 with the master volume quite high gives awesome tones. The clean channel with some volume and Vol 1 on 8+ also gives great distorted tones (Santana style). In terms of pure high gain it's hard to beat a Mark IV
 
I had a VII. Sounded good but not nearly as much as my IIC+ DRG. Which I just sold though. Got an offer I had to take.

Keeping my IVa which are also awesome as hell. Liking it more than the B.
 
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I don’t know, I have never had the opportunity to run an original 2C+ of any sort, and I would probably never spend the money on one but I’m really happy with my JP-2C. I like it’s extra features and have set it up for a pretty wide range of different tones. I bought it for metal stuff but have also really been impressed with it for cleaner/mellower stuff.

Even without all the modes of the V or VII you can get a lot of range with just some knob turning with how the tone stack is set up. A strat or tele into the clean channel with pedals and the first lead channel set for more of a driven sound and using the lower powered mode is way better than I expected.
 
The OG Mark2C+, with all the push-pull knobs makes it easy to paint yourself into a "bad tone" corner, if you are not careful. Just sayin'
 
Just interesting. Is the 'Simul-class' really such a great thing? I mean, my friend told me that this is a 'killer feature of all Marks' (smth like).
 
I feel like too many IIC+ owners like to protect the legacy of that amp too much. That extra 5-10% because its a "feel thing" is an excuse to justifying what price you paid for it.
The IIC+ status has become mythical, and the pricing has moved into collector territory. People buy the amp and want the quality of tone to directly reflect the price. But 20 years ago I paid something like 1700 for a C+ (with bubinga and wicker headshell), and while it was a really cool head I maybe kept it for a year. I remember going to Guitar Resurrection in Austin and trying a 101B for the first time and it blew my dick off, sold the C+ immediately after that.
 
Just interesting. Is the 'Simul-class' really such a great thing? I mean, my friend told me that this is a 'killer feature of all Marks' (smth like).
It's personal preference. Simul does add some harmonic content, however it also muds it up a little compared to straight A/B. IMO Simul puts extra pressure on your right hand to be on point for this reason.
 
Just interesting. Is the 'Simul-class' really such a great thing? I mean, my friend told me that this is a 'killer feature of all Marks' (smth like).
From thier mkiii catalog,
20240203_105300.jpg
 
GJgo is correct.
While the simul is obviously a great thing and i commend randall smith on his patent,keep in mind the " feel" is definitely different than a non simul.I have a red stripe coli non simul..and it gut punches like no other.I also have simul colis to compare with.
 
Out of everybody who compares these amps on youtube, I'd probably trust OIa to dial the amps the closest. So many dudes on youtube (not all of them by any means, but a lot), even if they're going to the trouble of making comparison videos, either just don't give enough of a damn to bother with dialing them in close enough for anything remotely resembling a "scientific" kind of comparison, or they simply don't have the ear and technical skill to dial them to sound close at all. They'll dial the knobs with their eyes or something, and the videos will show the amps sounding very different and they'll just happily conclude that "welp hey look yep these amps are obviously wildly different ahyuck!" without so much as even attempting to tweak a single control the entire time. Or they just don't realize that due to the weird control curves of the pots on Mark amps, at certain places on the dials of both the knobs and the GEQ, that literally something like 1 millimeter's worth of nudging can lead to multiple db's of signal change and throw off any kind of comparison you could make.

Ola's videos make all three of these amps sound the closest out of any other Mark comparison videos I've seen. To me, the JP2C always sounds just a little bit fatter in the pre-distortion EQ area. But the real IIC+ and Mark VII in IIC+ mode sound almost identical, to the point where even if you're literally watching the stems in the DAW and tracking the hard cuts between the amps with zero silence in between, it's very difficult to tell a cut has been made at all. I mean maybe there's a tiny difference, but it's small enough that I could see the same difference existing between two identical actual IIC+ amps easily as well.

Based on that video, if I wanted a IIC+ sound, I'd be totally 100% happy with a Mark VII.
 
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I don't think simul-class makes a huge difference personally although its a nice feature, both 100 watts and simul-class sound good to my hear (haven't tried any SRG). Simul-class does allow you to run EL34's in class A only so offer more options i guess
 
GJgo is correct.
While the simul is obviously a great thing and i commend randall smith on his patent,keep in mind the " feel" is definitely different than a non simul.I have a red stripe coli non simul..and it gut punches like no other.I also have simul colis to compare with.
I think that I may have sold you one of those Mark III Coliseum amps.:cool:
 
A good friend bought a 180 watt IIC+ , and I did not understand which way the "limit" control worked. THAT was a wake up call.:rolleyes:

As an owner of a 180W healthy IIIC++ I can’t imagine this amp cranked to ungodly levels unexpectedly. I bet you lost a few heartbeats after that one. There’s sonically loud like my 101B which sounds great cranked and then there’s scary lose your hearing permanent tinnitus loud with this Coli.
 
As an owner of a 180W healthy IIIC++ I can’t imagine this amp cranked to ungodly levels unexpectedly. I bet you lost a few heartbeats after that one. There’s sonically loud like my 101B which sounds great cranked and then there’s scary lose your hearing permanent tinnitus loud with this Coli.
How about knocked me nearly to the floor, when squatted in front of the metal grille 4x12 cab.
 
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