What to do with ‘71 Super Tremolo?

M

Mad Axe

Active member
I wasn’t sure whether to post this here or the tech sub-forum but I’m looking for some food for thought rather than technical advice.

I have a ‘71 Marshall Super Tremolo (1959T). I like the amp but I don’t use it a lot, it’s obviously pretty loud and I’m not really a fan of running it through my attenuator, when I do it sounds neutered compared to my master volume amps. It’s had the power transformer replaced in the past so I was thinking it might be a good candidate to tinker with since it’s no longer collectible.

I was thinking of adding a pre-phase inverter master volume because it looks simple enough that I could handle it myself and easily reverse it if I don’t like it. I don’t use this amp for high gain stuff and I’m not chasing the brown sound, I mostly use it for cleans and occasional light crunch tones. I have a Hot Mod V2 I can pop in as well if I do find myself needing more gain.

Any reason to not try this? I was originally thinking of selling the amp or trying to trade it toward a stock 2203/4 but I would end up taking a pretty big hit on my end with the transformer being non-original. It seems like it makes more sense to mod this amp into something that would work for me.
 

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Mad Axe said:
I wasn’t sure whether to post this here or the tech sub-forum but I’m looking for some food for thought rather than technical advice.

I have a ‘71 Marshall Super Tremolo (1959T). I like the amp but I don’t use it a lot, it’s obviously pretty loud and I’m not really a fan of running it through my attenuator, when I do it sounds neutered compared to my master volume amps. It’s had the power transformer replaced in the past so I was thinking it might be a good candidate to tinker with since it’s no longer collectible.

I was thinking of adding a pre-phase inverter master volume because it looks simple enough that I could handle it myself and easily reverse it if I don’t like it. I don’t use this amp for high gain stuff and I’m not chasing the brown sound, I mostly use it for cleans and occasional light crunch tones. I have a Hot Mod V2 I can pop in as well if I do find myself needing more gain.

Any reason to not try this? I was originally thinking of selling the amp or trying to trade it toward a stock 2203/4 but I would end up taking a pretty big hit on my end with the transformer being non-original. It seems like it makes more sense to mod this amp into something that would work for me.
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What brand PT is it? My 72 came with a later 70s Dagnall PT, T4145B I believe. Still a Marshall PT though...I did luck out and find a T3556 which is period correct for 70-73. T2562 was far more common though.
I think if you mod it slightly, without drilling/messing up the board too much you should be fine. I would say though, that your amp looks as clean as mine and should still command 5K in that mostly original condition. Sure, a collector won't bite but the OT is FAR more important than the PT is. Early 70s Tremolo heads are fairly rare, and yours looks pristine.
It's your amp of course, so you can do whatever you want with it.
 
I forgot to ask, have you tried a decent distortion pedal with it? I have a BE OD clone, that Griff made me and it sounds killer...the vol on the pedal acts as a MV so you can set both volumes the way you like it on the head, then hit the pedal and turn up the vol to match the clean/slightly dirty vol on the amp. Or, just turn the vol down super low for whisper vol playing. With the pedal engaged, and set the way I like this amp slays any and all MV 2203/4s I've owned which is a pretty big number, along with all the modded Marshalls over the years. It's just enormous sounding and still has that 3D/Vintage tone even with the 'hated' diodes being used in the pedal. Lol
 
I wouldn’t worry about the changed PT, as long as the voltages are still correct it doesn’t matter in the tone dept. It would still bring a chunk of change. I wouldn’t put a master in it. Use a load and slave it, best tones are this way.
 
Racerxrated said:
What brand PT is it? My 72 came with a later 70s Dagnall PT, T4145B I believe. Still a Marshall PT though...I did luck out and find a T3556 which is period correct for 70-73. T2562 was far more common though.
I think if you mod it slightly, without drilling/messing up the board too much you should be fine. I would say though, that your amp looks as clean as mine and should still command 5K in that mostly original condition. Sure, a collector won't bite but the OT is FAR more important than the PT is. Early 70s Tremolo heads are fairly rare, and yours looks pristine.
It's your amp of course, so you can do whatever you want with it.
Click to expand...
It’s got a Classic Tone in it now. I kept the original in case there’s a chance it could be rewound, not really sure if it would be worth the effort or not.

I’ve used a few boosts and overdrives with it, haven’t really tried running a straight up distortion pedal with it yet. If I don’t use the attenuator it sounds huge, even when it’s clean at relatively low volume. That’s why I was thinking of moving away from attenuation and just adding a master.

The other thing is if I do crank it to get a lot of gain out of it there’s some ghosting and once I hear it that’s all my ears hone in on. I’ve had it serviced and re-capped, I guess ghosting isn’t uncommon and most of the grit in those amps comes from the power section but if I minimize that I would probably enjoy it a little more.

I do occasionally set the EQ “flat”, volume low enough to stay clean and use it as a slave for one of my other heads or run my Kemper through it and it sounds killer for that. At the very least it’s the best power amp I’ve owned 😂.
 
Mad Axe said:
It’s got a Classic Tone in it now. I kept the original in case there’s a chance it could be rewound, not really sure if it would be worth the effort or not.

I’ve used a few boosts and overdrives with it, haven’t really tried running a straight up distortion pedal with it yet. If I don’t use the attenuator it sounds huge, even when it’s clean at relatively low volume. That’s why I was thinking of moving away from attenuation and just adding a master.

The other thing is if I do crank it to get a lot of gain out of it there’s some ghosting and once I hear it that’s all my ears hone in on. I’ve had it serviced and re-capped, I guess ghosting isn’t uncommon and most of the grit in those amps comes from the power section but if I minimize that I would probably enjoy it a little more.

I do occasionally set the EQ “flat”, volume low enough to stay clean and use it as a slave for one of my other heads or run my Kemper through it and it sounds killer for that. At the very least it’s the best power amp I’ve owned 😂.
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Mercury will rewind it..$500.00. I put a Classic Tone in my ‘69, b+ is 460 while originally was 490. Went with a Marstran for my ‘67 SuperTrem, much more accurate b+, will get one for the ‘69 at some point.

You could have a power amp in installed. Did that to the two JMP 2203/04’s I used with my load box setup years ago.
 
Greazygeo said:
Mercury will rewind it..$500.00. I put a Classic Tone in my ‘69, b+ is 460 while originally was 490. Went with a Marstran for my ‘67 SuperTrem, much more accurate b+, will get one for the ‘69 at some point.

You could have a power amp in installed. Did that to the two JMP 2203/04’s I used with my load box setup years ago.
Click to expand...
I recently picked up a 72 50w and I've been slowly putting what would have been original, back in the circuit. While reading up on small mods I can try, I read a thread on TGP long ago by Obeid Khan who had a 69 Plexi with a blown OT, and had Mercury re wind it. He hated it, and said it sounded very different far from the Plexi tone he had before.
Of course, that's an OT and here we're talking PT, maybe it wouldn't matter much as long as the voltage is right.
 
Mad Axe said:
It’s got a Classic Tone in it now. I kept the original in case there’s a chance it could be rewound, not really sure if it would be worth the effort or not.

I’ve used a few boosts and overdrives with it, haven’t really tried running a straight up distortion pedal with it yet. If I don’t use the attenuator it sounds huge, even when it’s clean at relatively low volume. That’s why I was thinking of moving away from attenuation and just adding a master.

The other thing is if I do crank it to get a lot of gain out of it there’s some ghosting and once I hear it that’s all my ears hone in on. I’ve had it serviced and re-capped, I guess ghosting isn’t uncommon and most of the grit in those amps comes from the power section but if I minimize that I would probably enjoy it a little more.

I do occasionally set the EQ “flat”, volume low enough to stay clean and use it as a slave for one of my other heads or run my Kemper through it and it sounds killer for that. At the very least it’s the best power amp I’ve owned 😂.
Click to expand...
The cool thing about a BE pedal or similar is, after you set the amp the way you like it...clean, dirty clean, etc when you engage the pedal you can set it to unity gain for a true 2 ch amp, heavy/clean or dirty, then bring the pedal vol down as low as you want. But bringing the vol way up unleashes the beast, and at that high vol it made my C+ Coli blush. It's easily at Wiz MC100 thump, if not even more. Killer. It sounds like a modded Marshall, but because it's still a non master the headroom is still ridiculous.
 
Racerxrated said:
I recently picked up a 72 50w and I've been slowly putting what would have been original, back in the circuit. While reading up on small mods I can try, I read a thread on TGP long ago by Obeid Khan who had a 69 Plexi with a blown OT, and had Mercury re wind it. He hated it, and said it sounded very different far from the Plexi tone he had before.
Of course, that's an OT and here we're talking PT, maybe it wouldn't matter much as long as the voltage is right.
Click to expand...
I can see a OT wind being different. Mercury has probably a million different recipes for OT’s too.
I have had three different PT’s in my ‘69. The stock which was around 500v, the first replacement which was 490 and sounded the same. Now this classic tone which is 460v and it sounds different. I will get one from Marstran to replace it at some point.

The Marstran I got for the ‘67 has been spot on. With Merren you must have to know the secret handshake, never reaponded so not gonna wait around.

If you come across a 560pf ceramic cap for the treble cap, let me know. Been looking for one for my other ‘69.
 
If you don't have any issues with the PT like running very hot as some Classictone Power transformers did. I had two in a row that ran very very hot and the bias would drift all over the place and I replaced them both with a different model designed to run cooler. I would recommend either Heyboer or Chris Merren if you want to replace the Magnetic Components one.

If the PT is fine and you want to keep the standard plexi and a higher gain modded plexi tones in one amp then look into either the Shared or Spilt Cathode versions of the RT mod that uses the PPIMV and it will retain the SL/Plexi attributes. The are plenty of layout drawings on the internet if you look around. This is a very non invasive way to get alot of gain using the normal channel inputs(volume 2) yet you retain the stock bright channel when plugged into the bright channel inputs (Volume 1). This is another quick and easily reversible way to mod the amp for more gain without getting crazy with the soldering iron.

Another really great mod that will scratch the itch of plexi and higher gain JCM2203 is the Friedman JEL mod that any good tech can install easily and quickly to make that amp totally killer. So you do have some options depending on exactly what you want out of it.

If you want the JMP/JCM800 2203 tones then it would use a pre PI master like the JMC800 and it would be very easy to convert to a 2203.

BTW if the amp still has the original Output transformer it is still highly collectable the power transformer change is less of an issue IMHO. You would get the most money if you leave it stock and sell it to someone who wants it unmodded. Once you mod it... it will sound better but you may impact the value of it depending on what the next buyer is looking for.... 100% STOCK or great sounding.....YMMV

What color circuit turret board does it have?

Light Tan or Reddish/Brown. 1971 was a transitional year where they were still using the reddish/brown turret boards transitioning to the light tan board material.
 
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I would strongly urge you to not mod it. And no, you would not lose money, trading or selling to get a 2203/04. This amp is worth more than they are. A replaced PT is common place in old Marshall’s. Like said above, it’s the OT that is critical to max value, followed by original signal caps (as long as they haven’t failed or drifted into a problem) and then probably a clean chassis ie. No drilling etc. There’s a lot of good pedals that would probably sound very good into that amp set cleaner if you want the JCM sound. I will say, changing simple things like bright cap values etc to accommodate a better mix with pedals I wouldn’t consider remotely invasive, as they’re so easily reversed. If you change anything, do not throw away the original part if it is still good.
 
skoora said:
I would strongly urge you to not mod it. And no, you would not lose money, trading or selling to get a 2203/04. This amp is worth more than they are. A replaced PT is common place in old Marshall’s. Like said above, it’s the OT that is critical to max value, followed by original signal caps (as long as they haven’t failed or drifted into a problem) and then probably a clean chassis ie. No drilling etc. There’s a lot of good pedals that would probably sound very good into that amp set cleaner if you want the JCM sound. I will say, changing simple things like bright cap values etc to accommodate a better mix with pedals I wouldn’t consider remotely invasive, as they’re so easily reversed. If you change anything, do not throw away the original part if it is still good.
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I don’t want to do anything invasive, figured the JCM 800 style master would be fine to try because it’s not going to disturb anything on the board and I can put it in one of the speaker jacks I don’t use. Not really looking to totally change how the amp sounds, just make it a little more manageable for regular use that’s all.
 
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