Vinnie Vincent - What Is Going On?
- Thread starter ghosty999
- Start date
degenaro
Active member
Credits are a funny thing and really up to the discretion of whoever is running the show.
For example original VH line-up credited all 4 guys.
Great way to have an even share of the publishing.
But the reality is that the licks, riffs, chord progressions fall under arrangement.
Writing literally only covers melody and lyrics. End of story
jabps
Well-known member
Creatures had co writes on every song, I mean Bryan Adams of all people has a co-write. Considering Vinnie wasn't officially a member at the time of recording COTN, I see no reason why they wouldn't give him a co-write. As for Unholy, he co-wrote it so who knows but I kinda doubt he was schooling Bruce on the leads. If there was ever a do it all guitarist it was Bruce.
And the end of the day I've never seen where Gene and Paul have pulled an Ozzy and out right ripped people off. Considering the sheer amount of writers and players that have contributed, both band members and sessions guys they've played with, if they were ripping people off it'd be fairly well known ala Ozzy. I and see no issue with Gene and Paul buying the rights to the makeup from Ace and Peter, I mean if they were that stupid to sell it, who's fault is that.
Don't get me wrong I love Kiss but I have no issue criticizing them they are far from perfect. I mean Unmasked, Hot in the Shade, those are turd sandwiches and to this day I refuse to buy the HITS album. Nor do I own anything they recorded with Thayer. I had no issue with them touring with Eric and Tommy as replacements, fans dug it and really that's all that matters but I wasn't spending anymore money on that product. In fact I basically washed my hands with the band after the Farewell tour and only relented in seeing them again to take my son to the End of the Road tour.
Bottom line for me, I think Vinnie's history pretty much lets you know who he is.
I won’t argue that VV comes off as a major tool in a lot of ways, but so do Gene and Paul. Eric Carr’s sister says they wanted to cut off his health insurance when he couldn’t do the gig anymore, for Christ’s sake the guy is dying… that’s the biggest asshole story from the music business I’ve ever heard. Supposedly they loved him so much… yeah, right. I’ve loved the band my whole life, but stopped after Psycho Circus. Reading Ace and Peter’s books and seeing what they offered them money wise to do the reunion gigs is sad. Reading Paul slagging Peter trying to better himself as a musician (successful or not) just comes off as punching down. No sympathy for those two.
Kapo_Polenton
Well-known member
I liked Unmasked
.. but I agree with you, no way Vinnie was schooling Bruce on leads. He was the guy that could cover all KISS era solos the right way and definitely had the chops and phrasing to put together the leads for later KISS. Vinnie did his best work with KISS but his over reliance on pinball speed and ridiculous phrasing took over after that. I think he forgot the key ingredient to soloing... musicality.
jabps
Well-known member
The Carr story is interesting and sticky, all involved could have handled that better. Carr's family cut off access to Gene and Paul because they thought they were going to kick Eric out and remove him from the band insurance. In the end though, the business end of the band covered his insurance and Gene and Paul, dipped into their own pockets to help pay his chemotherapy. That's the part that never gets clarified by Eddie Trunk and his ilk.
As for Ace and Peter - for the Reunion tour they were paid 2 million apiece to show up without drink or drug and play. They didn't have to foot the bill for tour expenses i.e. staging, roadies, haulers, hotels, venue rentals, insurance on everything and all that goes along with mounting a tour. Just a flat 2 million to go play rock star. Considering that Ace and Pete were doing a co-headline tour of clubs a year before the reunion, couldn't sell those out and were basically broke, sign me up. What's funny is Ace renegotiating his deal behind Peters back for the next tour and then Peter blames Gene and Paul, classic Peter looking to blame someone. Btw/ I have zero issue with them not being made full time members again. I would have done the same thing considering their past history.
Here's something alot of people don't know because fans just assumed Kiss in makeup was money in the bank however the promoters at that time didn't think so, on the first leg of the tour the whole thing was booked with a 90/10 split. Meaning if the band didn't sell 90% of the hall they only got 10%, if they sold 90% the promoter got 10%. I know because at the time I worked with one of the largest promoters around that booked concerts all across the nation notably all through Texas and Tennessee. They really thought Kiss was done regardless of makeup. Kiss took them to the cleaners.
I'd love for all of them to stop slagging each other but it's not just Gene and Paul doing it. Ace's whole marketing campaign for his new album is to talk trash. Did Ace even write his book though? And Peter, has there ever been a more unhappy rock star ever? Actually the only book I like of all of them is Gene's. Paul just comes off as condescending ass, his was last though so he was gonna get his shots in. That said though, even when getting a second chance on the reunion tour Ace went right back to the drink and Pete right back to the drugs. I guess in my old age I look at things differently, I see two guys who repeatedly shit the bed and were given second chances. Then I look at myself, former bandmates, friends in other bands; we worked our asses off but we never got those breaks and yet here's two guys that just took it for granted.
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Just got it today! I wish I would have known sooner it was released in 2018. He is good story teller so it should be a great read.
Ace renegotiating is good business. Gene, Paul and Doc McGee keeping it from Peter is bullshit.
romanianreaper
Well-known member
I personally hated Vinnie's makeup they designed for him. Eric's kicked ass though.
Yeah Vinnie, Ace, and Peter are all integral to the KISS story just like anyone else, but man, what a bunch of screwups at times. I guess that is what happens with fame.
Paul and Gene get a lot of shit, and some is self brought, but Paul kept that band rolling. Gene is the face and definitely helped with decisions but Paul pulled that band thru so much, including Gene's shitty acting career.
Yeah Vinnie, Ace, and Peter are all integral to the KISS story just like anyone else, but man, what a bunch of screwups at times. I guess that is what happens with fame.
Paul and Gene get a lot of shit, and some is self brought, but Paul kept that band rolling. Gene is the face and definitely helped with decisions but Paul pulled that band thru so much, including Gene's shitty acting career.
jabps
Well-known member
Then why didn't his good buddy fill him in lol? I mean man there's two sides to everything.
Btw/ I need to clarify, on the Reunion tour, Ace and Peter were guaranteed 2 mill regardless of what the tour did. Reportedly they each made roughly around 9 mill dollars plus stipends for travel as they were paid a rate per show. The following tour Ace renegotiated where he made more per show and had his hand in the merch, again both paid a specific rate per show which equaled I think 3 mill for Ace and 2 mill for Peter because there were less shows. Farewell tour about the same, show rate, tons of shows, tons of money.
Bottom line, they were paid handsomely to play rock star with none of the expense. Pete's been able to retire off his earnings, Ace is in debt to the IRS, go figure.
We'll just have to disagree on this. Sure Gene and Paul are what they are but at the end of the day it was their ballgame, they called the shots. Had Ace and Pete not gone off the deep end multiple times, things might have been different. I have no pity for them, they casually threw away what so many work their butt off for and then complained they were ripped off. Me personally as a fan of the music, I loved some of the 80's stuff and there is no way Ace or Peter could have pulled off what Vinnie, Bruce and Eric Carr were able to do. I commend Kiss during that era for pushing to stay current, heck I was sad when they put the makeup back on as anything from that point on was just gonna be what it was, nostalgia. But when that non makeup version ran out of steam they played the winning hand for nearly 30 years. Pretty amazing in my opinion.
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jabps
Well-known member
Very true.
I actually liked VV's makeup though. So glad they didn't go with the original bird look for Eric Carr, those pics are embarrassing of that outfit.
romanianreaper
Well-known member
My daughter and I saw Ace a few months ago and it was like watching The Three Stooges. His band, a tight group of musicians, carried him thru the performance and knew the songs better than him.
With that said, I love the guy and is one of my heroes. He's a rock star and I love his down to Earth feel.
jabps
Well-known member
Makes you wonder just how messed up Vinnie has to be if Ace can still get out there and do it.
DanTravis62
Well-known member
"What is going on?"
My guess? Butt stuff. Butt stuff is going on.
My guess? Butt stuff. Butt stuff is going on.
romanianreaper
Well-known member
I will say this about Ace. At least he enjoys his legacy and out there doing music and doing the "Spaceman" thing. Vinnie has all of this stuff that is just off and seems like a ripoff artist. I mean he was out of the spotlight for years and there were all of these murder stories, etc. Then he came out and did some things but cancelled others. Just alot of stuff that doesn't make sense.
Kapo_Polenton
Well-known member
His problem is a simple one. Just transition already. He will feel happier about himself..Vinnie that is. I love washed up Ace, he's still loving life!
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