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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 11:39am 
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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 11:57am 
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I think the cheaper models(greenback/ vintage 30) made late in 2007 are Made in China, the upper end models are still made in England. I've seen some stickers on the side of the magnet that states "Made in China".

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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 12:16pm 
This topic pisses me off, because I see everybody selling their V30's in the local classifieds ans stating they're made in England, the majority of them aren't
Celestion stopped making their basic models in the UK way back sometimes around 2003
The only models being made in the UK are Alnico (Blue & Gold), and the Heritage and Creamback series. Mesa V30's are also made in the UK.
If you can't see a sticker or an inscription on the speaker that states "Made In UK" or "Made In England", it's most probably made in China. There are other more complicated ways to find out though


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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 12:20pm 
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For quite some time, the little white sticker on the side of the magnet, or magnet plate had the number "50" on the side of it. These are Chinese made speakers for sure. Business is correct in stating that the majority of the production moved to China in 2002/2003.

Only the Heritage, Blue/Gold, and Creambacks (plus some custom speakers for some amp companies) are still made in the UK, as far as I know. I got this information from the Celestion rep directly.

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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 12:45pm 
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Is there anything stopping them from making the speakes in China and slapping on a Made In The UK sticker on it? I worked at Kramer guitars in 1990 and we would get in guitars from Korea and remove any Korea labels or stickers and replace them with Made In The Usa or Proud To Be An American Company. Is there any legal ramifications?

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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 1:05pm 
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Scumback Speakers wrote:
For quite some time, the little white sticker on the side of the magnet, or magnet plate had the number "50" on the side of it. These are Chinese made speakers for sure. Business is correct in stating that the majority of the production moved to China in 2002/2003.

Only the Heritage, Blue/Gold, and Creambacks (plus some custom speakers for some amp companies) are still made in the UK, as far as I know. I got this information from the Celestion rep directly.


Yep... and from what I understand there were a number of lines that went to China prior to 02.

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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 5:59pm 
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I have a pair in my cab that date November of 2000. :-)

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 4:26am 
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It makes no difference where they are made.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 6:24am 
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The Chinese come with sweet n sour & soy sauce.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 8:45am 
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Sick Squid wrote:
It makes no difference where they are made.


I'd say that is both true and false. Where they are made doesn't really matter, true. If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much. But Celestion did take measures to make the speakers cheaper to produce when moving them to China. That is one reason why both Mesa and Marshall insist on particular specs and magnet codes for their flavors of V30s. It's not that they tell Celestion to make them in the UK, but that they don't want the cheapened specs. Celestion then makes those in the UK because it isn't practical to make their smaller orders over in China.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 11:24am 
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barnesjd wrote:
Sick Squid wrote:
It makes no difference where they are made.


I'd say that is both true and false. Where they are made doesn't really matter, true. If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much. But Celestion did take measures to make the speakers cheaper to produce when moving them to China. That is one reason why both Mesa and Marshall insist on particular specs and magnet codes for their flavors of V30s. It's not that they tell Celestion to make them in the UK, but that they don't want the cheapened specs. Celestion then makes those in the UK because it isn't practical to make their smaller orders over in China.

That they did not (with respect).
The only thing cheaper about being made in China is the costs.
Mesa go for a magnet spec that was changed before manufacturing moved to China.

I see this China vs England myth posted and built on quite often, so will attempt to put it to bed
with some facts as I was told in a phone call to the UK distributor, an expert in the field:
80-90% of Celestions are assembled in China
The cone & voice coil are made in England
The viscosity and opacity of the wood pulp in the paper cone determines the sound
The cones have always been made by a small company - Kurt Mueller, who only make cones
They use the same paper as it was in the 50s/60s
There are no cones made in China

barnesjd wrote:
If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much.
in light of the facts above, this is my stance
I am happy to be corrected with updated facts if there is more info out there to be added.

I can add: the Celestion Hot100 is first speaker designed in England then made in China
more research went into those than any other Celestion ever


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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 12:35pm 
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Sick Squid wrote:
barnesjd wrote:
Sick Squid wrote:
It makes no difference where they are made.


I'd say that is both true and false. Where they are made doesn't really matter, true. If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much. But Celestion did take measures to make the speakers cheaper to produce when moving them to China. That is one reason why both Mesa and Marshall insist on particular specs and magnet codes for their flavors of V30s. It's not that they tell Celestion to make them in the UK, but that they don't want the cheapened specs. Celestion then makes those in the UK because it isn't practical to make their smaller orders over in China.

That they did not (with respect).
The only thing cheaper about being made in China is the costs.
Mesa go for a magnet spec that was changed before manufacturing moved to China.

I see this China vs England myth posted and built on quite often, so will attempt to put it to bed
with some facts as I was told in a phone call to the UK distributor, an expert in the field:
80-90% of Celestions are assembled in China
The cone & voice coil are made in England
The viscosity and opacity of the wood pulp in the paper cone determines the sound
The cones have always been made by a small company - Kurt Mueller, who only make cones
They use the same paper as it was in the 50s/60s
There are no cones made in China

barnesjd wrote:
If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much.
in light of the facts above, this is my stance
I am happy to be corrected with updated facts if there is more info out there to be added.

I can add: the Celestion Hot100 is first speaker designed in England then made in China
more research went into those than any other Celestion ever


Great info! I had always thought that the V30 magnets were changed to allow for a lower-cost V30 in China. Mesa objected to the change and now order the older one.

Another factor that I think gets left out is the simple fact that an older UK-made Celestion is used and likely more worn-in than a new Chinese one.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 2:03pm 
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The one to really be aware of is the Alnico blue. If the alnico blue has a celestion sticker on it, its made in the UK with the 1777 cone (going from memory on the cone number). If the alnico blue has a vox label on it, it could be made in China with a different cone or made in China with the 1777 cone. The Vox branded alnico blues from the AC30cc series for example did not have the 1777 cone and thus sounded different than alinco blues with the 1777 cone.

So if you are buying alnico blues check the cone number and the brand label. If you are looking at other celestions, I wouldn't worry about where they are made....

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 3:02pm 
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Some good info.
So.....is there a quick and easy way to tell?


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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 3:06pm 
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guitup too wrote:
Some good info.
So.....is there a quick and easy way to tell?


I always look for "50" on the magnet sticker as a rule of thumb. Otherwise, I research the hell outta the particular speaker so I'll know for certain. It's worth the trouble. Despite the facts presented here, the UK Celestions have better-smelling cork. :lol: :LOL:

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 3:19pm 
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barnesjd wrote:
guitup too wrote:
Some good info.
So.....is there a quick and easy way to tell?


I always look for "50" on the magnet sticker as a rule of thumb. Otherwise, I research the hell outta the particular speaker so I'll know for certain. It's worth the trouble. Despite the facts presented here, the UK Celestions have better-smelling cork. :lol: :LOL:


We have a winner :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 3:21pm 
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billboogie wrote:
We have a winner :thumbsup:


:cheers:

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 5:09pm 
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I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 5:19pm 
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Scumback Speakers wrote:
I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised.


So with regards to the paper pulp type, it doesn't matter if it's UK or China... new paper is new paper, right? :confused:

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 5:46pm 
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Just get the speaker code. Look up the Celestion code chart for year/month made, and if you have pre 2003 speakers chances are they made in England. My Tonemaster cab has V30s that date to '96. They sound Killer.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 6:52pm 
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barnesjd wrote:
So with regards to the paper pulp type, it doesn't matter if it's UK or China... new paper is new paper, right? :confused:

I haven't used any of the cones from China, so I'm not going to speculate on their content/mix, etc. I do know that what they use for the Chinese made Vox labeled Blues is not the same as the UK made Cele Blues. It is a different cone, for sure, than the UK version, and it sounds different as well.

As far as cone pulp, mixes, etc...yes, it's all new paper pulp, but there are still different versions, and different manufacturers. I went with the UK made Kurt Meuller cones since I was familiar with them from buying hundreds of old Celestions. Once the cones get here, they are chemically treated/altered to acheive different frequency responses.

Racerxrated is mostly right, though. If you have a pre-2003 Celestion, it was most likely made in the UK, however, the V30 was the first model to be produced in China (if I remember right), and it was before 2003. I believe it was even pre-2000 but I'd have to go dig up my old notes on an external drive, and multiple emails from Duncan.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 7:40pm 
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Scumback Speakers wrote:
I haven't used any of the cones from China, so I'm not going to speculate on their content/mix, etc. I do know that what they use for the Chinese made Vox labeled Blues is not the same as the UK made Cele Blues. It is a different cone, for sure, than the UK version, and it sounds different as well.

As far as cone pulp, mixes, etc...yes, it's all new paper pulp, but there are still different versions, and different manufacturers. I went with the UK made Kurt Meuller cones since I was familiar with them from buying hundreds of old Celestions. Once the cones get here, they are chemically treated/altered to acheive different frequency responses.

Racerxrated is mostly right, though. If you have a pre-2003 Celestion, it was most likely made in the UK, however, the V30 was the first model to be produced in China (if I remember right), and it was before 2003. I believe it was even pre-2000 but I'd have to go dig up my old notes on an external drive, and multiple emails from Duncan.


Cool, and great info btw. I feel much more vindicated for my insistence on avoiding Chinese Celestions. :2thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 8:36pm 
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Scumback Speakers wrote:
barnesjd wrote:
So with regards to the paper pulp type, it doesn't matter if it's UK or China... new paper is new paper, right? :confused:

I haven't used any of the cones from China, so I'm not going to speculate on their content/mix, etc. I do know that what they use for the Chinese made Vox labeled Blues is not the same as the UK made Cele Blues. It is a different cone, for sure, than the UK version, and it sounds different as well.

As far as cone pulp, mixes, etc...yes, it's all new paper pulp, but there are still different versions, and different manufacturers. I went with the UK made Kurt Meuller cones since I was familiar with them from buying hundreds of old Celestions. Once the cones get here, they are chemically treated/altered to acheive different frequency responses.

Racerxrated is mostly right, though. If you have a pre-2003 Celestion, it was most likely made in the UK, however, the V30 was the first model to be produced in China (if I remember right), and it was before 2003. I believe it was even pre-2000 but I'd have to go dig up my old notes on an external drive, and multiple emails from Duncan.

Hey Jim if you could find that out that would be very cool..just to have the correct facts..thanks!

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 9:04pm 
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Racerxrated wrote:
Hey Jim if you could find that out that would be very cool..just to have the correct facts..thanks!


I'll see what I can find, but between work, introducing new products, and answering emails, forums are getting less and less of my time. I know I had a hard disk crash 5-6 years back, and I saved most of it, but then I upgraded (as Microsoft forces you to do) my email app and I'm not sure I can pull up the archived mail file.

But I think if you go to the Plexi Palace forum, and look up member dunXB, you'll find out a lot of that info.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 9:06pm 
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Ok thanks

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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 9:19pm 
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Scumback Speakers wrote:
I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised.


Word. I believe my next speaker purchase will be some Scumbacks. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 4:10am 
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do any of you guys know tayden speakers?
Celestion's reverse engineering..
They claim that they use Kurt Muller's cones...

http://www.taydenspeakers.co.uk/


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 9:38am 
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For anyone interested in Vintage 30s, here is exactly what to look for:



T3903 8 ohm V30 made in China. Note the "50" on the right.

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T3904A 16 ohm V30, made in China. Again, note the "50".

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T3987 16 ohm V30 "Marshall Vintage", made in UK and no "50"

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 1:26pm 
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Scumback Speakers wrote:
I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised.

You didn't get your scouts badge for diplomacy, that we can assume.
I didn't 'pass anything off for facts', and simply relayed what an industry expert, based in the UK said in conversation. Speaking with such an expert is as close as I can get without doing my speaker building apprenticeship. Perhaps you'd like to call up Jeff at Matamp and put him straight. He has been selling those speakers for a lifetime.
No, I'm not, 'in the industry', although in an open forum, why would it matter? It wouldn't make for much of a thread if it was just you speaking to...you.
On the other side of the coin, you are in the industry and making a living from selling what you tell to be reproductions of the old Celestion speakers. It doesn't take much of a leap to see how you benefit from lowering expectations of Celestion's Chinese output. That reflects poorly on your own name, so might I suggest you either desist from posting in Celestion threads, or quickly develop a line in tact.

In my (worthless) opinion, the old and new V30s sound close enough for the difference to be down to age. I couldn't care less where they are made, or where the components are sourced. Having seen the Chinese work ethic up close I am very comfortable that they are able to produce a consistently high standard of manufacture.


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 2:55pm 
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Sick Squid wrote:
You didn't get your scouts badge for diplomacy, that we can assume.
Nope, I don't have time to be diplomatic or to be politically correct to those who post mis-information about subjects I know about. And you didn't get your opinions or posts from your own hands on research, which I did. Also it seems that reading comprehension is still a skill you're trying to master, based on your misunderstanding of my post.

As I stated, there were issues until around 5 years ago, 2009. I guess you missed that in your fury to post a reply to try and make me look bad. And just so you have the facts, I do not make or replicate anything that is a current Celestion build. And I also was given the green light by Celestion 11 years ago to pursue the old 60/70's speaker tone because they didn't feel there was a market for it. Since then they've figured out they were mistaken, which is why they have multiple Heritage versions of their old speakers coming out now. Perhaps what you should do is get current with the facts of the speaker business versus what you "percieve" it to be, as it is obviously suspect in it's veracity.

Sick Squid wrote:
In my (worthless) opinion, the old and new V30s sound close enough for the difference to be down to age. I couldn't care less where they are made, or where the components are sourced.


This statement shows your lack of any concise knowledge of the old V30's vs the newer ones. There are actually four distinct versions of the V30 that have been produced, and there have been multiple discussions on other forums about how the Mesa V30 sounds different than the Marshall V30, vs the production UK V30, and now the Chinese built V30. Time for a google search to expand your knowledge. You might also get your ears checked by an ear doctor.

Whether your opinion is worthless or not is another discussion. But until you actually stop posting like your opinion is fact(s), when it's actually based on a distributor's discussion / opinion with you that you parroted and posted, your posts about speakers will lack the conviction, fact finding and experience really needed to be asset to any forum.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 3:04pm 
Yawn

Why does it always end with a "Scumback Speakers" vs "Other Member" showdown?

The whole thing can always be resumed to "I know stuff and you don't" going back and forth

Scumback Speakers wrote:
Nope, I don't have time to be diplomatic or to be politically correct to those who post mis-information about subjects I know about.


No, ain't no speaker company got time for that
But you sure have time to write long ass posts to show your "superior knowledge" while insidiously knocking Celestion in the process
Go figure


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 3:11pm 
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Business wrote:
Why does it always end with a "Scumback Speakers" vs "Other Member" showdown?
The whole thing can always be resumed to "I know stuff and you don't" going back and forth


Eh, SS has an agenda. Apparently he bought two used M75's years ago, and didn't like them. That's my fault, apparently, and he hasn't let that go yet. It's only been three years, I guess he holds a grudge against me for that.

Quote:
No, ain't no speaker company got time for that
But you sure have time to write long ass posts to show your "superior knowledge" while insidiously knocking Celestion in the process Go figure


I'm just dispelling the mis-information on the internet, sometimes that takes a longer post. As for knocking Celestion, I don't think saying they had a problem with their Chinese speakers that they corrected five years ago is knocking them. I'm sure they wouldn't have told me they corrected issues if there weren't any to correct. What would be knocking them is if I had said they hadn't corrected these issues, which I did not say.

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Last edited by Scumback Speakers on Sat, Jun 14, 2014 3:18pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 3:16pm 
Scumback Speakers wrote:
Business wrote:
Yawn

Why does it always end with a "Scumback Speakers" vs "Other Member" showdown?

The whole thing can always be resumed to "I know stuff and you don't" going back and forth


Eh, SS has an agenda. Apparently he bought two used M75's years ago, and didn't like them. That's my fault, apparently, and he hasn't let that go yet. It's only been three years, I guess he holds a grudge against me for that.


Seems like everybody that disagrees with you has an agenda
I'm not disagreeing with you
I'm just saying you seem a bit stiff when it comes to discussion
You don't need to be a good "people-person" to make good speakers though


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 3:27pm 
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Business wrote:
Seems like everybody that disagrees with you has an agenda
I'm not disagreeing with you
I'm just saying you seem a bit stiff when it comes to discussion
You don't need to be a good "people-person" to make good speakers though


No, that's not it, at least not to me. I just don't have the extra time like I used to to help people on forums. That makes me write posts that get to the point quickly to dispel inaccurate information, especially when I know it's inaccurate.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 3:34pm 
Scumback Speakers wrote:
Business wrote:
Seems like everybody that disagrees with you has an agenda
I'm not disagreeing with you
I'm just saying you seem a bit stiff when it comes to discussion
You don't need to be a good "people-person" to make good speakers though


No, that's not it, at least not to me. I just don't have the extra time like I used to to help people on forums. That makes me write posts that get to the point quickly to dispel inaccurate information, especially when I know it's inaccurate.


It's just that it leads you to use authoritative arguments.
While some people are ok with that, I (and others) need a bit more clarification on your sources
We all appreciate when you can chime in though, whether you come in with facts or opinions


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 3:52pm 
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Business wrote:
It's just that it leads you to use authoritative arguments.
While some people are ok with that, I (and others) need a bit more clarification on your sources
We all appreciate when you can chime in though, whether you come in with facts or opinions


Well, the problem is that if everyone that wanted to talk speakers was in the same room, we could get this done in about an hour. The real problem is getting everyone there at once. As you can probably imagine, I've posted the same responses to a lot of the same questions (or posts) about 500 times, if not more, so I tend to just "cut to the chase" now. You call that an authoratative argument (nice vocabulary by the way!), I just call it cutting through to the chase, or cutting out the BS.

I'm going to be updating the website soon with new products. What might make sense is to just have one page where you can read all about the various Celestion versions I know about (which won't be all inclusive by the way), Scumback recreations, how they differ, when speakers were made/changed, and what the differences are.

A lot of it is on the Plexi Palace forum, look for posts by DunxB, that was Duncan Boniface's screen name. He was a lead speaker engineer for Celestion for 11 years plus, left in 2004 or 2005. He posted a lot of the information on versions, changes, etc over there. He was a speaker nut of the first order, which of course helped with his job, but he did stuff like dig in the warehouse, archives, spare parts, and he was "Dr. Decibel" up till 2004. So he kind of had to know or find out this stuff. I had been emailing him since 1998 about all this, so that's why I have a lot of the knowledge I have. That & buying up over 500 old Celestions from the 60/70's and working with them first hand with Duncan, Orange County Speaker Repair, and numerous dealers/cab owners who I convinced to take off their back panels of their original cabs to document what was in there.

There's way more to it than I ever figured there was, which is why my knowledge is always increasing, but frankly as much as I know, I'm sure I have a lot more to learn.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 4:02pm 
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I just recorded my entire EP with a Chinese made Greenback. Great speaker that kicked the made in England EVH Greenback's ass IMHO! :rock:

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Last edited by Superunknown on Sat, Jun 14, 2014 4:20pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 4:10pm 
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Superunknown wrote:
I just recorded my entire EP with a Chinese made Greenback. Great speaker that kicked the made in England EVH Greenback's ass! :rock:


Have you A/B'd them in similar cabs? I actually had my two Bogner cabs with one having EVH and the other having Chinese GBs. They both sound so different from what my ears are used to (V30s) that I don't recall much of a difference. Granted, I never had the opportunity to crank my amp up to appreciate any differences.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 4:47pm 
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And so it goes.
Scumback wades in with his size 12s (12" speakers - geddit?) and then attempts to say others have an agenda against him.
There was no mention of their product until they planted their 4x12 in our flower garden.

Sure, I tried the SB M75s years back, some new, some used (is that of any consequence?), and the tone wasn't for me. At the time, I had the sheer front to mention this online, and they hang onto my trouser leg like a Jack Russell with his balls banded. They went on a tack of blaming the tone on Weber; not their fault they said, although there was nothing wrong with those speakers it just wasn't a tone for me. How dare anyone not write platitudes. I made no mention of that here, yet I somehow am undermining the product. Actually, they don't need my help in that regard.

Let me be as clear as can be: you are disrespectful in your approach and would do well to think before you speak. It would have been easy to come in and clear up the facts, which I invited others to do. You come across as an arrogant know-it-all, a four-letter expletive of a man. My mistake was not to love what you make. I urge others not to make the same mistake.


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 5:04pm 
Superunknown wrote:
I just recorded my entire EP with a Chinese made Greenback. Great speaker that kicked the made in England EVH Greenback's ass IMHO! :rock:


EVH Greenbacks are made in China

Edit: I'm probably wrong on this one


Last edited by Business on Sat, Jun 14, 2014 6:28pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 5:12pm 
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Sick Squid wrote:
And so it goes.


Oh, please Sick Squid, you can try and disguise your ignorance of Celestion history, but the facts are the facts. You are wrong on several points, no matter where you got your information, or how you try to sluff it off on others. Now that you've been outed for your little agenda against me, suddenly you act like you didn't really have one and you were totally even handed with your posts and respectful towards me. Yawn.

If you had your facts straight in your post(s), and hadn't posted them as such (or disguised as opinion, however you want to state it), I wouldn't be in this thread at all. Basically I'm only here correcting your misinformation so others aren't misinformed.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 5:14pm 
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Business wrote:
EVH Greenbacks are made in China


Hah, they used to be made in England. Do you know when production moved to China? Sorry, I don't keep up on much of the new production Celestions.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 5:34pm 
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It's an easy read for those willing to play detective.
The only 'agenda' appears to be Scumback fighting their inner demons.
I recommend psychiatric counselling. Or sedation.


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 6:21pm 
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Sick Squid wrote:
It's an easy read for those willing to play detective.
The only 'agenda' appears to be Scumback fighting their inner demons.
I recommend psychiatric counselling. Or sedation.

:lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: This must be your "respectful" posting style, eh? :doh:

Oh boy, Sick Squid (apt screen name it seems) you are a hoot! Fighting my inner demons over your inaccurate statements about Celestion speakers? Or if you ever bought one of my speakers new? I kind of doubt that happened. I did PM you awhile back for your paypal receipt or address and you declined to reply. So I have to figure you didn't buy any Scumbacks new from me, so I'm certainly not going to stress about that.

Ok, tell you what, sounds like you might know something about psychiatric counseling or sedatives. Why don't you post your sources, experiences, purchases and first hand experiments / observations of yourself with both of those subjects. I don't know much about either of those, so I doubt I'll catch you on any incorrect statements, or "facts", opinions, or observations. ;)

Inner demons...oh my God, I'm rolling on the floor laughing at that one. About the only inner demons I have are missed putts on the golf course...

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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 6:26pm 
Scumback Speakers wrote:
Business wrote:
EVH Greenbacks are made in China


Hah, they used to be made in England. Do you know when production moved to China? Sorry, I don't keep up on much of the new production Celestions.


I have my doubts now
They're the same as Heritage G12M, only 25$ cheaper...
First time I remember a signature product that would actually be cheaper than its original counterpart
Trying to find a confirmation that they're made in China, but for now it seems they're UK made


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 9:00pm 
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barnesjd wrote:
For anyone interested in Vintage 30s, here is exactly what to look for:



T3903 8 ohm V30 made in China. Note the "50" on the right.

Image



T3904A 16 ohm V30, made in China. Again, note the "50".

Image



T3987 16 ohm V30 "Marshall Vintage", made in UK and no "50"

Image


Thanks! This is the info I needed.


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PostPosted: Fri, Feb 20, 2015 2:30pm 
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Great question....

This is straight from Marshall...

"In terms of our standard products, all of our alnico, Heritage Series and Creamback guitar speakers, along with the G10 Greenback are made here in Ipswich.

All other standard guitar speakers are made in the Celestion factory in Southern China."


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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 26, 2017 7:12pm 
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danyeo wrote:
I worked at Kramer guitars in 1990 and we would get in guitars from Korea and remove any Korea labels or stickers and replace them with Made In The Usa.


Come again?
How is this legal?

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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 26, 2017 7:54pm 
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Scumback Speakers wrote:
I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised.



I know this is an old post but I didn't see it till now. There was another Celestion thread and I pointed out that the frames that were made in China and steel that they used was cheaper and had a low carbon content since high carbon good quality steel and metal went to .gov factories first and were highly controlled. Nothing like the good quality steel from the EU or UK. I also pointed out the adhesives were different as well.

I was bashed and told that even if thats true their is no difference and its all the same and sounds the same even though the only thing that is similar is the logo on the speaker housing.

Whatever. :doh:

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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 28, 2018 7:20am 
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By the way the greenbacks are now made in the Uk again. So all green, cream etc are made in the JK now. V-30 is still made in China

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