Axe-FX vs Eleven Rack

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visualrocker69

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This is a kind of desperate situation... since selling my Bogner XTC nearly a year ago (just gasped, myself) I haven't replaced it with any credible means of amplification. I got a V-amp last summer but haven't had much time / inclination to play guitar anyway so I just left everything guitar-related at home during this semester. But, my new guitar is on its way, and I'm looking to get re-inspired and back into the game, so to speak. For that to happen, I need to acquire a piece of gear that'll make the magic happen... Amps aren't something I'm willing to consider, so what'll it be? Axe-FX or Eleven rack?

Has anyone seen a comparative review of these two units? Hopefully one that attempts to be as objective, balanced, and unbiased as possible? (After all, eeeeeeeeeeverybody knows the unequivocal answer is "Axe-FX is always better" ;))

The things the Eleven rack has going for it over the Axe-FX are an XLR mic input w/ phantom power, USB connectivity, and a rather big price reduction. First two are fairly indisputable, however, the price drop begs the question ...

Exactly WHAT does the Eleven compromise over the Axe-FX?

Sure there are countless benefits to the Axe-FX based on the fact that it's a different model of business... for instance, the rate with which the unit evolves due to Cliff's unparalleled dedication. But such things don't really stand up to a fair comparison.

As I see it, this can be evaluated in terms of three basic categories. (1) Sound (2) Feel and (3) Features.

(3) Features we can dispense with immediately. The Eleven just doesn't match up... whether this is a detriment is a subjective question... contingient entirely upon the individual needs of the user. In my case, I could live with the more limited features of the Eleven.

(1) Sound is subject to countless variables... what equipment it's being used through (insert FRFR advocacy here) the room you're in, etc, etc, etc. Just for the record, I do NOT have FRFR monitors and though I plan to acquire them, my means of amplifiaction will leave a lot to be desired regardless of whether I choose the Axe-FX or the Eleven.

(2) FEEL, IMO, is the bottom line for comparison. As I see it, the Axe-FX's MAIN selling point, is its ability to replicate the dynamic response of an amplifier... in essence, the Axe-FX is able to BE an amp (well, preamp) rather than simply a modeler which approximates amps, typically to unsatisfactory degrees.

That said, the main question is this: does the Eleven succeed in realistically emulating the feel of an amp? How does it compare to the Axe-FX in this aspect?

Thanks in advance for your input!
 
FWIW This is stright from Cliff's head...


"I have one. I buy all the competing products.

It wouldn't be proper for me to post anything subjective about it. However, I did do objective measurements. Some of the measurement results were very good and rival the Axe-Fx. However a key performance metric was incredibly bad. They definitely need to review their DSP techniques. I'm guessing the programming and algorithm dev. was done by software engineers rather than DSP guys.

It has some live usability issues: no spillover, preset changes are somewhat slow, delays don't crossfade when tapping a new tempo so you get a chirp, real-time control is very limited, etc.

Industrial design is nice, it's an attractive product. Build quality is good. Worth a look if you are considering a Pod X3 Pro or something else in that price range".

Here's the whole thread... http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewt ... ck#p108179
 
Having had both, my humble opinion is that the 11R had a more realistic feel to it. I just liked the response more and how it can push back like tube amp.

The PT interface and such is icing on the cake for me.

FWIW, I kept the 11R because it suits my needs better right now. I really don't think people should try to compare them apples to apples though. Each device fills a different niche, though they do overlap.
 
muudrock":9oentt3y said:
FWIW, I kept the 11R because it suits my needs better right now. I really don't think people should try to compare them apples to apples though.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but a decision has to be made nonetheless. And I DO think in terms of tone/feel there are ways to more or less construct an objective evalution... I mean, within reason. Sure these are subjective questions but a general consesus through experienced gear users SHOULD be possible, no?
 
visualrocker69":1jtpch0u said:
muudrock":1jtpch0u said:
FWIW, I kept the 11R because it suits my needs better right now. I really don't think people should try to compare them apples to apples though.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but a decision has to be made nonetheless. And I DO think in terms of tone/feel there are ways to more or less construct an objective evalution... I mean, within reason. Sure these are subjective questions but a general consesus through experienced gear users SHOULD be possible, no?
Click to expand...

Agreed, but you know what they say about opinions...?
You will have benefits from both and negatives from both. Both units are great at what they do. The Axe has way more options, flexibility and processing power. The 11R works seamlessly with ProTools and sounds excellent. In the "feel" department, I thought the 11R had a more realistic feel. In the tone dept, I felt the models in the 11R were more realistic--probably due to the fact that they "felt" realistic. Small details like ghost notes in the Plexi model like a true vintage Plexi has, and the certain bloom you get from a vintage Deluxe when you're right on the edge of distortion. I don't know if the Axe can do that, but since there were way too many parameters to tweak just to find out, I felt the 11R won that catagory. Took me 3 minutes to build a patch that I liked and still use. So, ease of use--big plus for the 11R.
Axe Fx dominates every modeler out there in terms of power, hands down. Tons of models, speakers, cabs, mics, etc and excellent tweakability. It has some great sounds too.
In the end, $800 VS $1900....Pro Tools Interface, Reamp capabilities, sound, feel...it was a no brainer for me. YMMV
I would own both if I needed to.
 
Well, $1500 for the standard, in all fairness.

I agree completely, that was my thought process too... it'd just be nice to get Axe-FX loyalists to concede that the Eleven is worth consideration in terms of sound/feel. Then I could put my doubts to rest. However, if the Axe-FX is still unparalleled in this respect, cutting corners is not something I'm overly inclined to do. Features I can compromise definately (in fact NOT being encumbered by the Axe-FX's depth might be a good starting place) ... but at the end of the day, I want to be hearing a sound that doesn't make me feel like I could -obviously- do better. And I consider myself a fairly rational individual, not chasing ghosts or grails, so... the decision should be a viable one to make on that basis.

Again, I just want an admission of Eleven's sonic merit from Axe-FX users on general consensus scale. That would make my decision very easy.
 
I have an AxeFx, never tried the Eleven. But for the price difference I'm not sure you really NEED all the extra processing power of the AxeFx. And I'll give it to Digidesign over Fractal in one category: They where smart enough to put a friggin' headphone jack on the Eleven R.



visualrocker69":274xu1ad said:
Again, I just want an admission of Eleven's sonic merit from Axe-FX users on general consensus scale. That would make my decision very easy.
Click to expand...

Uh...good luck with that. People are w-a-y too emotionally involved in their gear to get an honest appraisal, IMHO. I'm sure the 11R would suit you fine.
 
I was an early adopter of the AxeFX (an Ultra). After a year of gigging with it at least 8 times a month I decided to sell it. I was only using 4 patches based on a BF, SLO, AC30, and 800. I had the Liquid Foot pro as well to drive it. I have always done the FRFF thing with either a wedge or the standard QSC 122i. I have a nice PA and monitoring system.

I play in 2 cover bands doing everything from Elvis to No Doubt to Green Day.

The biggest problem for me was the amount of tweaking I was doing. The updates were coming out about once a month, and I was always tempted to install the latest version. This was my choice. I found that I spent more time tweaking than playing.

I ended up selling the AxeFx Ultra and going back to a 1x12 Combo and pedals. The downside was different tone each night and the typical volume issues associated with a tube amp, drummer, and bass player (and female vox).

When the 11R came out I picked one up since I had a 20% off coupon from MF. I used it for the first time for a show last weekend. I spent less than hour putting the 4 patches I needed together. I ran straight to the board and then out to a wedge in front of me. I also used a Ground Control Pro for tap dancing. Great sound - band was happy, people dancing, club was happy.

It is not nearly as flexible as the AxeFx. The patch changing delay is not a big deal for me - I only switch patches between songs. The effects were much easier for me to dial in (less parameters and more 'like the real thing') for me.

Things I think the 11R does better:
- The impedance match makes it feel 'real'
- The knobs up front. I don't like the way they jump to the setting when you grab them (I would like them to wait until the knob is in range, then change)
- Quick effects setup - this mostly due to the limited choices and parameters.
- The computer editor. I think Fractal really dropped the ball here (Beta driver after almost 2 years is something I would consider a major oversight).
- The UI. Very easy to get around. The knobs help.
- The Plexi sim. I could do every gig if I had to on just that amp sim alone. Everything is there from pick attack to volume roll offs. It is just 'right'. The others are close enough for me.

Things the AxeFx does better.
- I really like the auto engage. I miss that using the 11R and have to dedicate a IA on the controller.
- Wah pedals sound much better. I don't use it much, but when I do the 11R falls short.
-The amount of control you have. If I were a studio rat I would want the flexibility.
- Number of amp and cab combination. User impulses are not even available on the 11R.
- Number of mic options.
- Updates (yes - I know that is why I sold it, but Fractal does a great job).
- The Liquid Foot Pro integration. I miss that unit, and with the Ultra, you need the extra IA's.

For me - a weekend hack who plays the standards for the usual bar folks I find the 11R is a better fit. I only need a few amp patches. The Ground Control Pro works well (other than eating an IA to engage the wah). I pulled it out of the box, spent an hour getting the tones, and spent the rest of my time playing. To me that is what it is all about.

As Scott would say, YMMV.
 
I agree....You are not going to get an Axe Fx owner to admit the 11R is anywhere as good. :lol: :LOL:
I'll leave the reasons why alone..... :D
If you need someone else to validate your purchase, I'd say just go with the Axe. You'll probably never be happy with anything else.



Wiggler, did you update your 11R? The patch change delay isn't an issue for me. I've used it live twice and had 12 patches set up--well I should say 10 variations of the Plexi and 2 others :yes: I had no latency when switching.
I am using mine into a power amp and 4X12 cab and it sounds great.
The other thing I will mention is you can use IR's with the 11R, just have to do it PT. I was just trying some Redwirz the other day in PT. Turned off the 11R speaker model and used the IRs natively on the PC. Sounded really good and that is the only place I plan on using them--in the DAW.
 
muudrock":cmgl3v9g said:
If you need someone else to validate your purchase, I'd say just go with the Axe. You'll probably never be happy with anything else.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, you're probably right, though it may seem petty. If it's merely question of less features and being the product of a much larger company (less updates, etc) then I'd gladly save the $$$, but if the Axe-FX's tone/feel are potentially stronger as the consensus generally seems to illustrate, then I don't think I can cut corners. It IS a pity though.
 
muudrock":35juszyn said:
I agree....You are not going to get an Axe Fx owner to admit the 11R is anywhere as good. :lol: :LOL:
I'll leave the reasons why alone..... :D
If you need someone else to validate your purchase, I'd say just go with the Axe. You'll probably never be happy with anything else.



Wiggler, did you update your 11R? The patch change delay isn't an issue for me. I've used it live twice and had 12 patches set up--well I should say 10 variations of the Plexi and 2 others :yes: I had no latency when switching.
I am using mine into a power amp and 4X12 cab and it sounds great.
The other thing I will mention is you can use IR's with the 11R, just have to do it PT. I was just trying some Redwirz the other day in PT. Turned off the 11R speaker model and used the IRs natively on the PC. Sounded really good and that is the only place I plan on using them--in the DAW.
Click to expand...

I had an Axe and 11R and I thought the 11R was a decent unit. Like you have found.. I thought the cab sims were it's weakest point. The 11R's cabs are just too limited and didnt sound near as good as the Redwirez. While I give the feel nod to the 11R the tones are better on the Axe with being able to use other IR's and much better control IMHO
 
muudrock":12vfx9h4 said:
Wiggler, did you update your 11R?
Click to expand...

Yes, I did the 1.01 update. As I said, switching was not an issue for me since I do not do it mid song.

I have not installed the PT editor - just used it on a friend's machine. I have only installed the driver to do the update. Everything for my 11R has been done from the front panel.
 
Well, I have both and I think they both have their place. For going between my 3 studios, the Eleven Rack is a very nice option for it's interface with Pro Tools. I think however that the Axe-Fx has better overall tones for a stand alone unit.
 
I have an axe-fx and was unsure about it. I downloaded some presets and learned from them. Now I love it. I can't see myself without it.
 
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