BE 100 Gen 1 vs Gen 2 Observations +

NewReligion

NewReligion

Active member
I have been using my BE 100 Gen 1 and Gen 2 live and in the studio for a couple of years now. I find I prefer the C45 active with the Gen 2 but Not with the Gen 1 as it tends to spill over with too much mid freq. The Gen 1 without C45 is a real crier for solo work and sizzles on rhythms as well. I never use the FAT/SAT or Half Power options.

I now see there is a Gen 3 BE 100 with a 4th option switch on the front panel and a round power light. I am interested in hearing of any observations anyone has made about the Friedman's from Marsha through current model Aug 2017 to include Dave Friedman as I may have misrepresented the Generation series numbers. Peace...♪
 
The latest update with the addition S switch, new caps and NF adjustment is usually referred to as the 2016 update.

I recently had mine updated. The difference between the 2016 and previous is significant. To me, it sounds less refined in a positive way. Has a touch more of that Marshall snarl with the feel of a Friedman. The voice switch seems to be a tad more effective too. I love the c45 in both applications, but don't normally use it a live situation. I do use it for solos when recording however.

The S switch basically keeps the feel of a "cranked" gain, but with lower gain. Nice addition.

I'm assuming that what you refer to as the first generation is the old two input version? From what i understand, the voicing is the same or very similar to the 2015 and previous versions (what i believe you refer to as generation 2).
 
Main things.
Marsha was what later became the "Brown Eye" channel
The Gen1 BE100 had a very simple "1 knob" clean channel
The Gen2 BE100 added a better clean channel, and switchable HBE
These all used Mallory 150 caps

The Gen3 2016, switched to Synergy Royal Mustard caps, moved negative feedback to 4 ohm tap. = Brighter, clearer, more raw.
The Gen4 2017 added Structure switch, and raised screen filtering, and preamp filtering. = More attack, less squishy.

Personally I like GEN2, but I like darker amps.
 
CrazyNutz":op9jw5u8 said:
Main things.
Marsha was what later became the "Brown Eye" channel
The Gen1 BE100 had a very simple "1 knob" clean channel
The Gen2 BE100 added a better clean channel, and switchable HBE
These all used Mallory 150 caps

The Gen3 2016, switched to Synergy Royal Mustard caps, moved negative feedback to 4 ohm tap. = Brighter, clearer, more raw.
The Gen4 2017 added Structure switch, and raised screen filtering, and preamp filtering. = More attack, less squishy.

Personally I like GEN2, but I like darker amps.
Click to expand...


Thank you all for the input...It is great to track the evolution of such a fine piece of equipment and watch the circuit evolve. Very consistent and stable within each evolution as I have noticed. As where my other favorite amps tend to fluctuate from amp to amp depending on what was on hand to build the circuits.

Much respect.
 
I have a gen II and love it. Intrigued by the new S switch and full update i had the New/Old switch added..i love both applications. I wanted both and was glad to have the option available. If your not quite sure what you may not retain just have the o/n toggle added. As mentioned * i like darker amps as well. The sound of the 2014 BE100 was what did it for me, with all the gain!
 
I have the Gen 2 version.
A while back I got in touch with B.A.D and got them to send me a gain structure switch and a set of Synergy caps so I could upgrade the amp myself as I'm a looooong way from Dave's shop. Anyway, I started with the structure switch, and I think it kills! I used to struggle setting the gain going from clean to BE and HBE mode, especialy when using C45 mode, but now with the S switch in the medium gain setting, I feel like I have the perfect transition from clean to crunch to lead/hi gain. I would highly recommend this mod for any BE100 that doesn't have it. It adds a tremendous amount of flexibility with the gain structure (hence the name of the switch :LOL: :LOL: ). It also allows you to cop a bit of a plexi vibe in the low gain setting, which was impossible to do before by just turning the gain knob way down, as the feel of the amp collapsed and the sound thinned way out.
Next, I tried fooling around with the NFB, but to me it sounds best where it was stock ( on the impedance selector ) and I'm using a 16 ohm cab, so that's a fair bit of NFB.
I never did do the the Synergy caps, because at this point, I really like the amp as it is and don't want to mess with it. It sounds great, but the FEEL is incredible. And it does open up more as you turn the master up to gig level. I also like to run the presence up past noon-1 o'clock to compensate for the large amount of NFB. If it was my only amp, I might consider tinkering further, but if I need brighter and more open and less compressed, I plug into a Wizard MCII.

Crazynuts mentioned that the filtering was tweaked in the last revision and this is the first time I've heard this. I know the filtering on the screens was quite low, and I think this is a big contributor to the FEEL thing I was talking about. For anyone who really likes their Gen 2 amp now, but is thinking about upgrades, I would think long and hard about messing with the filtering.
The way this is going, it won't be long until Dave has a completely different amp from what used to be a BE100.
 
fusedbrain":1o8ihmjv said:
Crazynuts mentioned that the filtering was tweaked in the last revision and this is the first time I've heard this. I know the filtering on the screens was quite low, and I think this is a big contributor to the FEEL thing I was talking about. For anyone who really likes their Gen 2 amp now, but is thinking about upgrades, I would think long and hard about messing with the filtering.
The way this is going, it won't be long until Dave has a completely different amp from what used to be a BE100.
Click to expand...

Yes he went from: 50uf main, 16uf screens, 100uf PI, 22+22uf Preamp

To: 50uf main, 47uf screens, 100uf PI, 47+47uf Preamp

That 16uf to 47uf bump in the screens changes the feel, and attack significantly. I've tried it, didn't dig it.

The 47+47uf in the Pre probably helps balance out the added brightness of the Synergy Caps, and the NFB reduction. I have not tried this.

But I agree I think the 2015 BE is where its at.
 
CrazyNutz":zwqdvphh said:
fusedbrain":zwqdvphh said:
Crazynuts mentioned that the filtering was tweaked in the last revision and this is the first time I've heard this. I know the filtering on the screens was quite low, and I think this is a big contributor to the FEEL thing I was talking about. For anyone who really likes their Gen 2 amp now, but is thinking about upgrades, I would think long and hard about messing with the filtering.
The way this is going, it won't be long until Dave has a completely different amp from what used to be a BE100.
Click to expand...

Yes he went from: 50uf main, 16uf screens, 100uf PI, 22+22uf Preamp

To: 50uf main, 47uf screens, 100uf PI, 47+47uf Preamp

That 16uf to 47uf bump in the screens changes the feel, and attack significantly. I've tried it, didn't dig it.

The 47+47uf in the Pre probably helps balance out the added brightness of the Synergy Caps, and the NFB reduction. I have not tried this.

But I agree I think the 2015 BE is where its at.
Click to expand...
Yup, a 2015 Gen 2 with an added structure switch is :rock:
I always thought the Phil X was the amp for the guys that thought the BE100 was to smooth / not bright enough.
 
CrazyNutz":2s5wvtac said:
fusedbrain":2s5wvtac said:
Crazynuts mentioned that the filtering was tweaked in the last revision and this is the first time I've heard this. I know the filtering on the screens was quite low, and I think this is a big contributor to the FEEL thing I was talking about. For anyone who really likes their Gen 2 amp now, but is thinking about upgrades, I would think long and hard about messing with the filtering.
The way this is going, it won't be long until Dave has a completely different amp from what used to be a BE100.
Click to expand...

Yes he went from: 50uf main, 16uf screens, 100uf PI, 22+22uf Preamp

To: 50uf main, 47uf screens, 100uf PI, 47+47uf Preamp

That 16uf to 47uf bump in the screens changes the feel, and attack significantly. I've tried it, didn't dig it.

The 47+47uf in the Pre probably helps balance out the added brightness of the Synergy Caps, and the NFB reduction. I have not tried this.

But I agree I think the 2015 BE is where its at.
Click to expand...


I was starting to wonder if I was the only person out there that preferred the 2015 revision :LOL: :LOL:
 
Synergy caps are not brighter at all. In fact the mallory caps are brighter on the highs and more scooped in the mids. What the synergy caps do well is in the midrange. The amp breaks into harmonic feedback when sliding up to a note much better.. Really the only way to a/b anything is to have 2 amps and a amp switcher in real time.. Then you really see the differences. I would say about 98% of everyone who has tried the newer specs like it more. Just my thoughts here.
 
RACKSYSTEMS":2g6z8ttd said:
Synergy caps are not brighter at all. In fact the mallory caps are brighter on the highs and more scooped in the mids. What the synergy caps do well is in the midrange. The amp breaks into harmonic feedback when sliding up to a note much better.. Really the only way to a/b anything is to have 2 amps and a amp switcher in real time.. Then you really see the differences. I would say about 98% of everyone who has tried the newer specs like it more. Just my thoughts here.
Click to expand...

Dave, the Synergy caps are the same as SoZo Nextgen Mustards right? I think I asked you this before, and If I recall correctly you said yes.

If so they seem brighter to me than mallory 150's, or perhaps I've mistaken the added clarity as brighter? Or do they warm up after a break-in period?

EDIT: Come to think of it, on amps that I've swapped mallory's for SoZo nexgen, I find my self reaching for the bass knob and adding 15-20% more,
So maybe not brighter, but rather less bass?

Either way, I'll take your word for it.
 
CrazyNutz, my experience with the change to Synergy & NF (2015 model to current specs) has been with the way the amp "articulates" notes from your technique. Just by the pick attack it can be warm, smooth, singing, to explosive! I also believe more Clarity in the distortion (even at full gain). from before & after recordings, I personally prefer the New Synergy caps tone (also Gain-Structure) really versatile amp.
 
fusedbrain":1khoy68e said:
I have the Gen 2 version.
A while back I got in touch with B.A.D and got them to send me a gain structure switch and a set of Synergy caps so I could upgrade the amp myself as I'm a looooong way from Dave's shop. Anyway, I started with the structure switch, and I think it kills! I used to struggle setting the gain going from clean to BE and HBE mode, especialy when using C45 mode, but now with the S switch in the medium gain setting, I feel like I have the perfect transition from clean to crunch to lead/hi gain. I would highly recommend this mod for any BE100 that doesn't have it. It adds a tremendous amount of flexibility with the gain structure (hence the name of the switch :LOL: :LOL: ). It also allows you to cop a bit of a plexi vibe in the low gain setting, which was impossible to do before by just turning the gain knob way down, as the feel of the amp collapsed and the sound thinned way out.
Next, I tried fooling around with the NFB, but to me it sounds best where it was stock ( on the impedance selector ) and I'm using a 16 ohm cab, so that's a fair bit of NFB.
I never did do the the Synergy caps, because at this point, I really like the amp as it is and don't want to mess with it. It sounds great, but the FEEL is incredible. And it does open up more as you turn the master up to gig level. I also like to run the presence up past noon-1 o'clock to compensate for the large amount of NFB. If it was my only amp, I might consider tinkering further, but if I need brighter and more open and less compressed, I plug into a Wizard MCII.

Crazynuts mentioned that the filtering was tweaked in the last revision and this is the first time I've heard this. I know the filtering on the screens was quite low, and I think this is a big contributor to the FEEL thing I was talking about. For anyone who really likes their Gen 2 amp now, but is thinking about upgrades, I would think long and hard about messing with the filtering.
The way this is going, it won't be long until Dave has a completely different amp from what used to be a BE100.
Click to expand...

This exactly... "it won't be long until Dave has a completely different amp from what used to be a BE100." I adore my Friedman's just as they are. Each are unique to my ear...even at performance volumes. I would love to land a production Marsha. I have a couple new friends (Guys I have done amp work for that use Friedman modded Marshall 1959's I need to compare.

Jon Levin from Dokken told me in 2009 that a Splawn modded Marshall killed the Quickrod and Nitro so I landed one in 2015...HATED it! Had to be the voltages and Transformers. I Had to filter out the flubby low's on my Son's 2009 Nitro, pretty bad ass amp now, way smoother. Back to topic. I agree if the BE 100 continues to evolve it will be a different animal. ♪
 
Everyone was complaining that the original BE-100 was, "...too polished and smooth", so Dave did something about it. He made changes that a majority of people were happy with. I think the 2016 version is much better.

I have A/B'd a 15' and 16' spec BE100 in the same room. No comparison when you do this. The 16' is so much more alive. 15' sounds so dark and compressed in comparison. It really is eye opening.

Nothing wrong at all with updating a circuit over time to create something that meets the needs of the people playing it.
 
RedPlated":2w0l46yw said:
Everyone was complaining that the original BE-100 was, "...too polished and smooth", so Dave did something about it. He made changes that a majority of people were happy with. I think the 2016 version is much better.

I have A/B'd a 15' and 16' spec BE100 in the same room. No comparison when you do this. The 16' is so much more alive. 15' sounds so dark and compressed in comparison. It really is eye opening.

Nothing wrong at all with updating a circuit over time to create something that meets the needs of the people playing it.
Click to expand...

Right on...I will have to try it. Love the dark smoothness after forced to play brittle fizzy Marshalls for decades lol. JK

If I dig the 2017 BE 100 I'll add it to my collection. I really want to play a Fortin Cali +
 
Yeah. Though the 2016 version is more to my liking, it's still the Friedman BE-100 i always loved. To me, it's more of a feel thing than an audible one, though it is different audibly too, but it still sounds like a BE100. If that makes any sense whatsoever.
 
RedPlated":2fb1e9z4 said:
Everyone was complaining that the original BE-100 was, "...too polished and smooth", so Dave did something about it. He made changes that a majority of people were happy with. I think the 2016 version is much better.

I have A/B'd a 15' and 16' spec BE100 in the same room. No comparison when you do this. The 16' is so much more alive. 15' sounds so dark and compressed in comparison. It really is eye opening.

Nothing wrong at all with updating a circuit over time to create something that meets the needs of the people playing it.
Click to expand...

True! my BE100 that has been modified to the 2016 (Synergy caps/NF adjustment / Gain-Structure / BE100 to SS100 clean ch conversion) just kills! Beautiful soloing capability smooth to aggressive "throaty-voice", powerful sounding chords and a slight simple change in technique & guitar volume, I can go blues to rock to hard rock and even jazz. Clean channel sounds wonderful for finger style to pop and country "amazing" I really love this amp. I also own some cool Marshall's that have been modified (Arrendondo, Cameron, Mike Fortin-Cali) I've own for years. I also own XTC 100b, CAA PT100, VHT Pittbull, SLO's but I have to say that my BE100 (just changed the EL34's TAD/Valve Queen) sustains for days, is my favorite! Great combination of that Fender meets Marshall but with Dave's vision!
The way the amp is right now, is the way I'm keeping it!!! it records great in the studio.
 
RedPlated":3p2bns8r said:
Everyone was complaining that the original BE-100 was, "...too polished and smooth", so Dave did something about it. He made changes that a majority of people were happy with. I think the 2016 version is much better.

I have A/B'd a 15' and 16' spec BE100 in the same room. No comparison when you do this. The 16' is so much more alive. 15' sounds so dark and compressed in comparison. It really is eye opening.

Nothing wrong at all with updating a circuit over time to create something that meets the needs of the people playing it.
Click to expand...
I agree with this 100%. All I was getting at was that the amp has evolved so much over time, people need to be aware that there are significant differences between the versions, and they may prefer one over the other.
Bogner 101b's are usually described as dark and compressed, but there are a lot of guys that love that amp.
Actually, it was my Gen 2 BE100 that made me sell my 101b. Every time I plugged into the Bogner, I just kept thinking "that sounds good, but the BE100 does that better" LOL.
 
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