101B vs 20th Anniversary XTC

Gsxrbusa

Active member
Besides tubes, what are the main differences in tone? I'm more of a metal dude so I would be looking for the most aggressive offering.

Does the 101b have a million revisions?

Thanks for the help. :)
 
I'd get the 101b. I've owned a few and I like them better than the other models. The 101b does sound a bit more compressed, and always felt/sounded to me like it has a bit more gain on the red channel... a bit more aggressive. The 20th is more open, more old-school Marshall sounding. Both are XTCs, and do sound very similar... 80-90% the same. I don't like the 6L6GC variants either. I only really like the red channel on any XTC. I also like the presence set around 2-3:00pm to get it mean sounding.

The 101b revisions were in 1997 (more gain) and another in 2005 (green channel cleaner- less breakup... red channel voicing changed). I think that's it... unless you go back to the old original white chassis models... some of which sound like @$$... the ones with the cab emulator built in IIRC.
 
I currently have a 20th 101B and from what I understand the complaints with the 101B red channel were addressed with the 20th. The complaints were that the red channel was too compressed, too gainy and too dark sounding. The blue channel on the 101B versus the 20th seems to be better to a lot of ppl. I've never played a reg 101B, just the 20th and I can't compare but I do know the 20th sounds glorious! The clean channel on the 20th is supposed to be a major upgrade compared to the 101B but since you're not going to be into that not sure how relevant this is going to be to you. Drawbacks of the 20th is that it's an Albatross of a head and it's heavy as hell! Other than that it's the tits!
 
Owned them all, all versions of the 101b and classic EXCEPT the 20th. I have the 20th schematic and it should have a decent amount of low end, a bit more toothy and more gain in modern mode (structure on 101). Clean should be warmer with chime and more headroom, but that's judging from the 20th schematic. The power amp I believe is old school Marshall 50/50uF like the XTC Classic.

I own a 101b after going through 4 versions including the classic. The pre 2004 is where it's at for me. I keep my TMB at 2:00 in B2 with the presence around 1:00 and it's about perfect with my Bogner 412 with GB and V30s
 
Brent your reading of the schematic is dead on. Loved all versions. I like TMB @ 2:00 as well, B1 for BLUE and B2 for RED. Presence to taste.

The 6L6 20th cleans are INSANE, but I would bet that you could get really close with a regular 101b (I like the pre '04 as well, MM trannies are sweet) and a set of EH 6CA7s biased at 70%.
 
I had a 20th EL34 XTC last year for a while and currently have a 101b (traded a 20th Shiva for it and will be trading back this week).
My band does mostly 80s rock stuff so a hot rodded Marshall tone is what I am usually after, but I have always been a fan of Cantrell's tone and got into Bogner more or less looking for that kind of signature grind. I wish I was able to A/B the 20th XTC I had with the 101b, but here are my thoughts from what I can recall.
-The Excursion settings seem pretty different. On the 101b I can set it to Tight and push the Bass a bit more and its big and full, but a little more compressed and as the name implies...tighter. On the 20th I always felt like when I went to the Tight setting the amp went too thin overall. I had to use M or L on that amp.
-The Blue on the 101b seems to have a little more gain. It is a bit smoother overall and more compressed so it could just be some of those subtle differences making it seem like it has more gain. The 20th was more open and a little more Marshallish in a way. Sometimes I liked that, but I wanted more gain and at the end of the day it didn't seem to be the same coveted Blue channel everyone loves on the 101b.
-The Red on my 101b has been modified to the Cameron specs. It can be set to sound big and dark and smooth, or brighter and more edgy. That is where I would play metal, but its not instant metal inspiring tone. Plenty of gain here though. In fact with it on R1 and M or L on the Excursion and it goes microphonic gain bananas pretty quickly.
-Green, well I don't play cleans a whole lot. I don't know that the EL34 version of the 20th really does those changes any justice. I think the clean on the 101b sounds pretty damn good. If I recall correctly I tended to use the boost on the 20th to get the clean sounding nice and big and full while doing the peg the volume and use the Gain for overall volume trick. On the 101b the boost on the clean doesn't sound good to me. Maybe for single coils, but with hot humbuckers its too ratty of a breakup.
-The 20th did sound boxy and congested a few times when I wasn't able to open it up. On the other hand, one outdoor show I did last summer on a nice big stage, I had that thing cranking and it was a ton of fun. Sounded great and was really easy to connect with the feel.

I am not a metal player...the most metal I get is some Metallica and the occasional Slayer lick. I am more hard rock, but like aggressive tones and tighter amps most of the time.
I traded my 20th XTC last year for a Helios. I liked the amp, but didn't feel like it was a great fit in the band along side the Splawn Quickrod my other guitar player uses. I was happier using it with the other band I was in at the time where I was doing a ton of different kind of music and was the only guitar.
I pounced on the 20th Shiva recently because while I love the Helios it is a one trick pony in a live situation. Great hot rod Plexi and covers me most of the night, but left me wanting when I needed a heavier tone. I think the Shiva is meaner sounding than the XTC, but they have a different voicing and feel for sure.
I feel like I am all over the place in this post. Sorry if I made it more confusing. I shoulda just said amps are cool, Bogners rule.

Good luck...look forward to hearing your take on whatever you get in the future here.
 
I have an El34 20th Ann. and a 101B Classic. While the Classic has less gain available I would say it still sounds more aggressive than the 20th. 20th has a better clean channel and the secondary presence/excursion controls add to this vs. the classic. So to put it simply, the 20th sounds more "vintage" than the classic which is very similar in tone but with a more aggressive edge to it, even with less overall gain.
 
GOHOINC":1aogu8p8 said:
I have an El34 20th Ann. and a 101B Classic. While the Classic has less gain available I would say it still sounds more aggressive than the 20th. 20th has a better clean channel and the secondary presence/excursion controls add to this vs. the classic. So to put it simply, the 20th sounds more "vintage" than the classic which is very similar in tone but with a more aggressive edge to it, even with less overall gain.

OP, keep in mind the regular 101b has the secondary presence/excursion as well. The 20th gives you a nicer clean channel, boostable Plexi and a little different voicing on Blue and Red. Better is subjective.
 
I really want to play a 20th. I've had one in my grasp but was sold out from under me. I have since moved on to the Friedman rabbit hole but absolutely love my 2008 101B. It's the most open and clear sounding XTC I've owned. It was actually brighter and sweeter than my classic. When I received it, it had been modded some. I put it back to spec but opted for pre-2004 original spec but used silver mica caps and a couple of Mallory 150 coupling caps instead of Bogner Wima caps. Same values just different brand/type. Big difference.
 
Brent brought up the caps, and someone else mentioned the "boxy" nature of the 20th at lower volumes.

I'd love to play a 20th with the newer Synergy caps - Reinhold, Charley & Jorg all say it is a noticeable difference. The 20th with older caps could sound smeared/boxy, and this effect was most apparent at lower levels.

This is a clip from the RED channel at a low level and while it is decent you can hear how the sound gets an unnatural "mewing" to the notes:
 
Rdodson":1m6o5s2o said:
peckhart":1m6o5s2o said:
When did they change to the Synergy caps?

Late '14, early '15?


I use synergy mustards in my personal builds for couplers and in the tone stack......have to admit they are nice sounding. I started with 1st gen SoZo and wasn't a fan, had a smeared flat tone to them. So I went with mojo Dijon and liked those better, fatter and full sounding, then switched to Senergy Royal Mustards within the past year. Pretty much dead on to real mustards that I have. Very clear and raw sounding.
 
I've got one of the original 20thX-EL34 with SoZo mustards.

This thing is far from smeared or boxy :LOL: :LOL: :hys:

Don't talk yourself out of one - especially since they've changed some caps and now everyone's jumping onto the "new version 20thA XTC" bandwagon (no disrespect to Reinhold who's a personal friend of mine, but c'mon, sales matter!). These amps are absolutely amazing amps - and the main difference for me between the 101b and 20thA is the options and tonal shaping capabilities available on the 20th.

But people, NEVER claim this amp to be boxy or smeared, and if you're playing it on too low a volume, um, turn it up :thumbsup: :rock:
 
Ventura":20pe5llo said:
I've got one of the original 20thX-EL34 with SoZo mustards.

This thing is far from smeared or boxy :LOL: :LOL: :hys:

I have no doubt that yours is far from smeared or boxy, but IN COMPARISON to the new senergy's as a overall CAPACITOR they do in fact sound smeared and box IMO and most others.
 
The 101b sounded much better to me than the 20th with EL34's. The gain sounded different in the 20th. I preferred the 101b
I also like the 6L6 20th version better than the EL34's. More open. Less sizzle more organic.
Personnel preference. Try and play one of each, it's really the only way to know which is right for you.
 
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