Synergy caps in 20th XTC

Me

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I was pondering what was said in this post about the newer synergy caps vs older sozo... viewtopic.php?f=59&t=189268

Me being the perpetual tinkerer and rather handy with a soldering iron, I was wondering how many there are of what values, where I could buy some (preferably in Europe, but anywhere will do), and if they’re reasonably accessible. If the answer is yes, then based on what was said in that post I figure it’s worth a spot of soldering to make an amp that cost more than my car as good as it can be? :)
 
Cheers!

I don’t suppose anyone knows what values they’d be? I’m guessing Sod’s law states the values will be on the underside so I won’t know what they are to order until I’ve rendered the amp temporarily useless! Also is it obvious which ones are the current SoZo ones are and where they go?
 
You can open the amp up and just write down the values of the existing caps. They should be wima brand (red, and green box caps) and have the values printed on the side.
 
CrazyNutz":2p4j3e20 said:
You can open the amp up and just write down the values of the existing caps. They should be wima brand (red, and green box caps) and have the values printed on the side.

If they’re WIMA caps, a cap change would likely involve a PCB flip. No thanks!! Pretty big job for not a lot of return IMO. Cap VALUE change, yes, but can TYPE change, more subtle and not worth the effort. YMMV etc.
 
They’re 20th Anni SoZo mustards I’d be finding to replace with Synergy Mustards. It was based on that thread I mentioned in the OP saying

“I'd love to play a 20th with the newer Synergy caps - Reinhold, Charley & Jorg all say it is a noticeable difference. The 20th with older caps could sound smeared/boxy, and this effect was most apparent at lower levels.”

If for the cost of a cheap-ass stonpbox and a bit of effort I can make the almost best amp in the world the best one, then I figured it’s worth looking into based on that description. It won’t be massive but if they supposedly say noticeable, then who am I to argue.

Obviously if it’s a total shit and I have to totally strip the amp and desolate a million things to get to them, then obvs that makes it a bit more off-putting.
 
Ahh, did not know they switch to SoZo's at some point.

If you open the amp up and find SoZo's it will be an easy job.

A little bit of info on the SoZo vs Synergy thing. The SoZos used to be the exact same cap as the Synergys. SoZo could not keep up with their commitment to the company manufacturing the cap(or something to that effect), so synergy swooped in and took over. SoZo moved on to another manufacture but its not the same cap anymore, even though it's labeled the same.

Short story the Synergys are the real deal, and sound the best. On a side note if your amp has SoZo, they may, or may not be the good ones, just depends on if it was built before the fallout.
 
There's not very many SoZo caps, maybe 5 or so, the rest are MojoTone and Mallory caps. I have a newer 20th but has the SoZo caps. I run Synergy in my personal builds. I really don't know if 5 caps would make that much of a difference to be honest, especially with the XTC's massive amount or circuitry throughout its design.
 
CrazyNutz":3867jkvb said:
Yes actually 5 caps can make a difference.

My money is its subtle and not a game changer but report back when you get them changed. Would love to know your findings.
 
I don't actually have a 20th XTC. I'm just speaking from experience with substituting different caps. I've used sozo's, mallory 150's, and synergy's quite a bit. Just changing one coupling cap early in the preamp can be substantial.
 
here's pics may help -
 

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CrazyNutz":n2c91ylj said:
Ahh, did not know they switch to SoZo's at some point.

If you open the amp up and find SoZo's it will be an easy job.

A little bit of info on the SoZo vs Synergy thing. The SoZos used to be the exact same cap as the Synergys. SoZo could not keep up with their commitment to the company manufacturing the cap(or something to that effect), so synergy swooped in and took over. SoZo moved on to another manufacture but its not the same cap anymore, even though it's labeled the same.

Short story the Synergys are the real deal, and sound the best. On a side note if your amp has SoZo, they may, or may not be the good ones, just depends on if it was built before the fallout.
This! :thumbsup:
 
BrentSP":31trio9l said:
There's not very many SoZo caps, maybe 5 or so, the rest are MojoTone and Mallory caps. I have a newer 20th but has the SoZo caps. I run Synergy in my personal builds. I really don't know if 5 caps would make that much of a difference to be honest, especially with the XTC's massive amount or circuitry throughout its design.

1 cap can make a big difference.
 
psychodave":3rh8dibt said:
BrentSP":3rh8dibt said:
There's not very many SoZo caps, maybe 5 or so, the rest are MojoTone and Mallory caps. I have a newer 20th but has the SoZo caps. I run Synergy in my personal builds. I really don't know if 5 caps would make that much of a difference to be honest, especially with the XTC's massive amount or circuitry throughout its design.

1 cap can make a big difference.

In my experience in building 50 plus amps it just depends on the circuit. In most cases 1 single cap BRAND does not make a difference. A change in VALUE makes a difference. The some of all the parts make a difference.
 
I have modded my 101B, by changing Wima caps (coupling, tonestack) to TAD mustard clones, PI output caps to Mallory 150 (lowering its value to 47nF) and by changing cathode bypass caps to NOS ERO/Roederstein 1813, among others. Along with changing dirty Treble pot to linear and removing 470pf C40 Excursion cap, changing those caps to other brands had a huge impact on the tone, as I was seeking more "in-front" cutting tone, with more like "Marshall-crunchiness".

So in my amp changing caps brand did really matter.
 
Absolutely if you replace all the WIMA for TAD caps that’s not just one cap, that’s 20-30 caps maybe. That will make a huge difference.
 
BrentSP":34k9zs5k said:
psychodave":34k9zs5k said:
BrentSP":34k9zs5k said:
There's not very many SoZo caps, maybe 5 or so, the rest are MojoTone and Mallory caps. I have a newer 20th but has the SoZo caps. I run Synergy in my personal builds. I really don't know if 5 caps would make that much of a difference to be honest, especially with the XTC's massive amount or circuitry throughout its design.

1 cap can make a big difference.

In my experience in building 50 plus amps it just depends on the circuit. In most cases 1 single cap BRAND does not make a difference. A change in VALUE makes a difference. The some of all the parts make a difference.

If a brand uses different material from the next it will certainly make a difference though. I found this out first hand while modding an amp’s depth circuit. 1 single cap using different brands made a huge difference. I went through a bunch of ceramic caps of the same value and when I got to an old Erie cap my jaw hit the ground. It didn’t sound like any of the other caps.
 
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