ENGL SAVAGE 120 OWNERS question *Update Added* Help needed

Fret-Shredder

Well-known member
For others that own the SAVAGE 120 can you answer this question for me. It concerns the ROUGH/SMOOTH button. When the button is engaged (Pushed in) and the amp is in SMOOTH mode I noticed that the TREBLE / MID / and BASS knobs do not seem to do anything when turned. However when in ROUGH mode they work. Is that normal? No EQ in SMOOTH mode. One other thing I notice is that the HIGH BALANCE knob only works in SMOOTH MODE. I want to mention I was on channel 4. Never thought to see if its the same on any other channels. Thank you.

UPDATE 9/22/17: I messed around with the amp today as time permitted on BOTH Channel 3 and 4 and when in SMOOTH MODE I do hear a change in tone when I adjust the BASS / MID / TREBLE but its very , very subtle compared to ROUGH MODE. In ROUGH MODE I can really hear the tone change when adjusting the BASS/MID/TREBLE. As for the HIGH BALANCE knob I read the manual and it only works in SMOOTH MODE so I tried it and I really dont hear much of anything when I adjust it. Please if someone would chime in that owns a SAVAGE 120 and tell me if theirs is similar are might I have a circuit problem with my amp... I dont know. Thank you.
 
It is supposed to work like that. I have owned two savages and played one in a music store. They all behave the same way. I thought the same thing at first but as I as tweaked and tweaked I noticed the small changes. Then once I read the manual it all made sense.
 
Thank you for the reply and easing my worry that something was wrong with the amp. I appreciate it. Take care.

JeffHenneman":xrioscpm said:
It is supposed to work like that. I have owned two savages and played one in a music store. They all behave the same way. I thought the same thing at first but as I as tweaked and tweaked I noticed the small changes. Then once I read the manual it all made sense.
 
Fret-Shredder,

I just recently bought a Savage 120 since hearing that they were being discontinued and have been comparing it to my Blackmore that I've owned for the past 10 years. The Blackmore is a killer amp, but with the shared eq on all of the channels I have always second guessed myself about not buying the Savage. I think, my Savage is a 2014 or so production model. I haven't spent much time with the Smooth mode, but since reading your post I went to check it out. From what I could hear in Channel 4 was very subltle changes in tone as well when adjusting bass/middle/treble and hi balance in Smooth mode. I didn't notice much change when adjusting the presence knob either. I don't think it's just your Savage. Smooth mode always sounds super muffled to me.

I have a question about your Savage though. Do all of your channels besides the clean channel have a lot of background noise? I know it's a high gain amp, but crunch 1, crunch 2, and lead all have a constant noise when I'm not playing that is similar to how an air conditioner sounds in a house when it's running. Of course it goes away if you turn the gain knobs down.... The Blackmore has a similar noise, but only on the lead channel. It's silent when on church 1 and 2. Does yours have a sound similar to Darth Vader when he's exhaling through his mask when you aren't playing? Is this just the nature of the Savage? The more gain the more Darth Vader breathing out sounding in the background when not playing?
 
Interesting that you ask. Here is what I discovered. Not so much in channels 1&2 really at all as long as its a guitar with EMGs. I havent tried 1&2 with a guitar with regular humbuckers so I'll get back to you on that. In high gain settings all my guitars with regular humbucker pick ups like my Peavey USA Wolfgang my USA Musicman Axis there is a noticeable hum. Now... My ESP USA Eclipse and Musicman LUKE have EMG pickups and those are real quiet. Seems like EMGs are the way to go in high gain. At least this is my experience. I haven't had the amp long so I'm still messing around with settings. And I believe mine is a 2012. I'll confirm later. Hope this helps. Michael.


ablank2486":12n5qsgk said:
Fret-Shredder,

I just recently bought a Savage 120 since hearing that they were being discontinued and have been comparing it to my Blackmore that I've owned for the past 10 years. The Blackmore is a killer amp, but with the shared eq on all of the channels I have always second guessed myself about not buying the Savage. I think, my Savage is a 2014 or so production model. I haven't spent much time with the Smooth mode, but since reading your post I went to check it out. From what I could hear in Channel 4 was very subltle changes in tone as well when adjusting bass/middle/treble and hi balance in Smooth mode. I didn't notice much change when adjusting the presence knob either. I don't think it's just your Savage. Smooth mode always sounds super muffled to me.

I have a question about your Savage though. Do all of your channels besides the clean channel have a lot of background noise? I know it's a high gain amp, but crunch 1, crunch 2, and lead all have a constant noise when I'm not playing that is similar to how an air conditioner sounds in a house when it's running. Of course it goes away if you turn the gain knobs down.... The Blackmore has a similar noise, but only on the lead channel. It's silent when on church 1 and 2. Does yours have a sound similar to Darth Vader when he's exhaling through his mask when you aren't playing? Is this just the nature of the Savage? The more gain the more Darth Vader breathing out sounding in the background when not playing?
 
I have a Savage SE. It behaves the same way in the smooth mode. The eq does only subtle changes.

The amp itself is dead quiet. I don't use any noise gate. Some preamp tubes can be noisier than others, so try to swap some in different positions. I have good experience with RFT tubes.
 
Thanks for the replies Michael and sinnersmoon. I have noticed that my active humbucking guitars do seem more quiet and my passive guitars noisier for sure. I've also heard great things about the RFT ecc83. I actually ordered a pair earlier today. I've read that they make a big difference in v1, but can kind of dirty up the clean channel a little bit? I'm thinking about putting them in v2 and v3 since those are the positions for channels 3 and 4, so I have read. I've also read that a Jan GE 5751 in v1 can make a big difference in the amp although it is a lower gain tube. Maybe that would quiet the amp down overall. I'm definitely going to play around with the preamp tubes some. I'll report back.

Btw, thanks for starting this thread, Michael. I just got my Savage last week Wednesday and have been dying to talk to someone/anyone about it. What do you think of yours so far? What were you playing through before?

sinnersmoon, besides the four 6l6 power tubes in the Savage SE, what are the differences in the two heads? I've seen where someone in Italy is selling one pretty cheap, but they don't offer shipping to the states....

Thanks,

Alex
 
Hey Alex. Yeah man... I am very grateful to own this amp. Never though I would be lucky enough to acquire one. I got a great deal on it from a guy on Craigslist and it was even recently retubed with new power tubes from the tube store. Even got the ENGL Z-10 footswitch with it too. I only have about about 2 hours of time into messing with settings and I love what Im hearing so far. One thing I really want to do is upgrade my existing cabinet and purchase the ENGL 2X12 cab. I think then I will really hear the full potential of tone when I do that. Right now Im using an EGNATER TOURMASTER 2X12. Its sounds pretty good for the time being.

bVoyPBz.jpg


Here are the upgraded power tubes that were recently installed:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/KT88- ... eries-KT88

He even gave me the original power tubes because there is plenty of life left in them. Another cool thing is he got the Jens Kruse "CANNIBAL" MOD done which was an $250 additional cost. So that is a bonus. A little SKULL knob on the back of the amp when in the off position keeps your amp in its original NON MODDED state. Only when you start turning the knob does the mod start blending itself in. To me its really just adds EQ to your tone like a SONIC MAXIMIZER would. Its pretty cool actually. You can read all about it on his site.

YZnXyeI.jpg


http://www.krusekontrol.com/engl_mods/engl_savage_mod

I plan on eventually getting the VARIAC MOD when I have a little extra money. I talked to Jens on the phone. His shop is only about 20 minutes from my house which is convenient. So if the amp ever needs service he is very close by. To answer your second question as to what I was playing before I got the Engl Savage 120... I've had many amp heads and rack gear over the years but I was playing through my Mesa TRIAXIS / 2:90 with a 4X12 Mesa Rectifier cab. I sold all that because I wanted to simplify and just have an Amp head and 2X12 set up. I havent gigged since the 80s and rarely even jam with friends anymore... I mostly just play in my living room these days. But that doesnt mean I want a small combo amp. LOL. Hope this answers your questions. Enjoy your SAVAGE 120. Its an amazing amp. Take care Alex.



ablank2486":2ocwd0th said:
Thanks for the replies Michael and sinnersmoon. I have noticed that my active humbucking guitars do seem more quiet and my passive guitars noisier for sure. I've also heard great things about the RFT ecc83. I actually ordered a pair earlier today. I've read that they make a big difference in v1, but can kind of dirty up the clean channel a little bit? I'm thinking about putting them in v2 and v3 since those are the positions for channels 3 and 4, so I have read. I've also read that a Jan GE 5751 in v1 can make a big difference in the amp although it is a lower gain tube. Maybe that would quiet the amp down overall. I'm definitely going to play around with the preamp tubes some. I'll report back.

Btw, thanks for starting this thread, Michael. I just got my Savage last week Wednesday and have been dying to talk to someone/anyone about it. What do you think of yours so far? What were you playing through before?

sinnersmoon, besides the four 6l6 power tubes in the Savage SE, what are the differences in the two heads? I've seen where someone in Italy is selling one pretty cheap, but they don't offer shipping to the states....

Thanks,

Alex
 
ablank2486":27fbkqji said:
Thanks for the replies Michael and sinnersmoon. I have noticed that my active humbucking guitars do seem more quiet and my passive guitars noisier for sure. I've also heard great things about the RFT ecc83. I actually ordered a pair earlier today. I've read that they make a big difference in v1, but can kind of dirty up the clean channel a little bit? I'm thinking about putting them in v2 and v3 since those are the positions for channels 3 and 4, so I have read. I've also read that a Jan GE 5751 in v1 can make a big difference in the amp although it is a lower gain tube. Maybe that would quiet the amp down overall. I'm definitely going to play around with the preamp tubes some. I'll report back.

Btw, thanks for starting this thread, Michael. I just got my Savage last week Wednesday and have been dying to talk to someone/anyone about it. What do you think of yours so far? What were you playing through before?

sinnersmoon, besides the four 6l6 power tubes in the Savage SE, what are the differences in the two heads? I've seen where someone in Italy is selling one pretty cheap, but they don't offer shipping to the states....

Thanks,

Alex

I didn't have luck with lower gain tubes (ECC81 or ECC82). The lead channel lost some aggression that I couldn't dial back in. But give it a try maybe you will like it.
I'd suggest lower gain ECC83. That brought clarity and kept the punch.

There are some differences feature-wise. Savage SE doesn't have a Contour knob (I wish they would have kept it). Crunch 1 has its own dedicated treble knob - even though I'm a metalhead, I really like this channel.
There is also an onboard reverb that is not too bad but not the greatest either. It goes well with external effects (delay, chorus).
Pentode/triode switch is one that I don't use at all. It's too soft when in triode mode.
Cable and impedance checker is a nice feature on the back.
You cannot hook up two cabs unless you daisy-chain them. BUT you can have two cabs plugged in and SWITCH between them.

Tone-wise I cannot say. It was more than five years ago I played Savage 120. I'd love to get one though just for the sake of the test. I'd like to know the exact differences myself. LordRiffenstein once said that Savage SE sounded smoother than 120. He had them both at the same time.

It's a nice amp. I had an Invader 100 at the same time for more than 1 year and I kept Savage SE.
 
Michael, I wish we had a good amp service and mod shop like that over here in southeast Alabama. The Cannibal mod sounds pretty sweet and it costs around $250? How much does the Variac mod run? You've got a pretty sweet setup! You'll like the Engl cabs. They are very well built thick cabinets. It's very comparable quality wise to the Mesa cab that you had. I've got an older silver grill vintage 4x12 that Engl just calls the Pro cab now with V30's. I just play at home these days as well. I used to play local shows in the early to mid 2000's. I miss those days. I dig having big rigs too even if just for home use. Ha!

sinnersmoon, it's funny you mention LordRiffenstein, I actually read about the idea of running a 5751 in V1 in an old thread from 2006. Same with the RFT tubes. My RFTs showed up today. When the 5751 gets here I'll throw them in and let y'all know how things sound. Hopefully they will help with this noise issue.

I've actually found a Savage SE online and for a great price, I just don't think the seller will ship to the states. I'd love to check one out. A smoother Savage sounds like it would be insane. And getting rid of an Invader says a lot too.

Back to LordRiffenstein, did he create and run the old engl-forum? That was a great place for all things Engl. I wish it was at least still up just to navigate through and read old threads. I don't know why it got taken down.

Alex
 
Hey Alex... By the way my amp was made MARCH of 2010. The VARIAC mod from Jens is $250 which is same price as the CANNIBAL mod. Im looking forward to your update on the preamp tubes. Mine preamp tubes are all RUBY TUBES. Im not sure if those came in the head originally or were put in by the previous owner. Do you know what preamp tubes came stock in the SAVAGE 120? Below is the type of preamp tubes I have. Let me know if you think anything should be upgraded. Im not sure but Jens may have retubed my amp when he did the CANNIBAL mod. I found my V1 tube and the others on his site and they seem like good quality tubes. Im going to give him a call and see if there is a record of what he has done to my amp. Maybe he can look it up by SERIAL NUMBER if he has any kind of computerized data base. Thanks. Michael

http://krusekontrol.com/tubes_for_sale/preamp_tubes

V1= RUBY 12AX7AC5 HG+678

V2 thru V6= RUBY 12AX7AC5 HG




ablank2486":c5yr15e9 said:
Michael, I wish we had a good amp service and mod shop like that over here in southeast Alabama. The Cannibal mod sounds pretty sweet and it costs around $250? How much does the Variac mod run? You've got a pretty sweet setup! You'll like the Engl cabs. They are very well built thick cabinets. It's very comparable quality wise to the Mesa cab that you had. I've got an older silver grill vintage 4x12 that Engl just calls the Pro cab now with V30's. I just play at home these days as well. I used to play local shows in the early to mid 2000's. I miss those days. I dig having big rigs too even if just for home use. Ha!

sinnersmoon, it's funny you mention LordRiffenstein, I actually read about the idea of running a 5751 in V1 in an old thread from 2006. Same with the RFT tubes. My RFTs showed up today. When the 5751 gets here I'll throw them in and let y'all know how things sound. Hopefully they will help with this noise issue.

I've actually found a Savage SE online and for a great price, I just don't think the seller will ship to the states. I'd love to check one out. A smoother Savage sounds like it would be insane. And getting rid of an Invader says a lot too.

Back to LordRiffenstein, did he create and run the old engl-forum? That was a great place for all things Engl. I wish it was at least still up just to navigate through and read old threads. I don't know why it got taken down.

Alex
 
Michael, so you understand Engl serial numbers or does Jens understand them? I've never been able to figure them out. Now it makes sense as to why your Savage has the KT88 power tubes too. I've read that Engl started using 6550 power tubes in 2012 for whatever reason. Mine has JJ 6550 tubes. It sounds like Jens has some great pricing on his mod/repair work. I do know that new Engl amps come stock with Engl brand power and preamp tubes. My Balckmore and Savage both have all Engl ECC83 tubes in the preamp slots. I've heard good things about ruby tubes in the past. I think, I've read that they are Chinese tubes, but there are a lot of people that swear by the Chinese preamp tubes. If it sounds good and is low noise it would be a winning combo in my eyes to my ears. I would bet that Jens has a record of the amps that he's worked on, so I feel like you're good there on figuring out what he has done with your amp. I'm really interested in figuring out this Engl serial number thing. Let me know how you can figure the month and year from them. Thanks!

Alex
 
To get the year of my amp I just messaged ENGL support on their site. Below is the link I used. In about a week I had my answer.

http://englamps.de/customer-support/

Here are the original power tubes that were in my amp:

xHnS7Sb.jpg


And here are the new POWER TUBES that are in the AMP now:

FWpk1xj.jpg


ablank2486":1f2y1rro said:
Michael, so you understand Engl serial numbers or does Jens understand them? I've never been able to figure them out. Now it makes sense as to why your Savage has the KT88 power tubes too. I've read that Engl started using 6550 power tubes in 2012 for whatever reason. Mine has JJ 6550 tubes. It sounds like Jens has some great pricing on his mod/repair work. I do know that new Engl amps come stock with Engl brand power and preamp tubes. My Balckmore and Savage both have all Engl ECC83 tubes in the preamp slots. I've heard good things about ruby tubes in the past. I think, I've read that they are Chinese tubes, but there are a lot of people that swear by the Chinese preamp tubes. If it sounds good and is low noise it would be a winning combo in my eyes to my ears. I would bet that Jens has a record of the amps that he's worked on, so I feel like you're good there on figuring out what he has done with your amp. I'm really interested in figuring out this Engl serial number thing. Let me know how you can figure the month and year from them. Thanks!

Alex
 
Michael,

Sorry it has taken me so long to report back. So I’ve had all of my preamp tubes replaced for about a week now. It most definitely cleared the amp up. I’m not hearing that loud hush sound anymore and everything sounds just as heavy as before. I ended up going with:

V1 - Jan GE 5751
V2 - RFT ECC83
V3 - RFT ECC83
V4 - Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 Gold Pin
V5 - Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 Gold Pin
V6 - Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 w/ Matched Triodes for the Phase Inverter

Everything sounds great! I still think I’m going to change out my power tubes when I get the time and money. I’ll have to travel around three hours to Birmingham to take it in for servicing as no one services tube amps here in Dothan. It’s cool yours originally came with the stock Engl 6550s. I think that I had read somewhere that the Savage came stock with KT88s until 2012. So you are digging the KT88s? How’s everything going with your Savage? Tweaked it enough yet? Still looking ain’t cabs?

Alex
 
Awesome man.... glad to see you sorted out that noise issue. I may look into experimenting with the V1 tube and see if I can lower the High gain hiss a bit myself. Like I said , my guitars with EMGs are pretty darn quiet already so I need to get a TUBE that helps with normal passive humbuckers. Where do you buy your tubes? And WOW... that Jan GE 5751 is one expensive tube!!!


ablank2486":3d4pjr7v said:
Michael,

Sorry it has taken me so long to report back. So I’ve had all of my preamp tubes replaced for about a week now. It most definitely cleared the amp up. I’m not hearing that loud hush sound anymore and everything sounds just as heavy as before. I ended up going with:

V1 - Jan GE 5751
V2 - RFT ECC83
V3 - RFT ECC83
V4 - Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 Gold Pin
V5 - Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 Gold Pin
V6 - Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 w/ Matched Triodes for the Phase Inverter

Everything sounds great! I still think I’m going to change out my power tubes when I get the time and money. I’ll have to travel around three hours to Birmingham to take it in for servicing as no one services tube amps here in Dothan. It’s cool yours originally came with the stock Engl 6550s. I think that I had read somewhere that the Savage came stock with KT88s until 2012. So you are digging the KT88s? How’s everything going with your Savage? Tweaked it enough yet? Still looking ain’t cabs?

Alex
 
Michael,

I just searched for everything and bought off of eBay, after checking seller feedback of course. I think the Jan GE 5751 that I got was around $30. I had read on an older thread on another forum how it was the tube to put into V1 of the Savage. I’ve also read where a bigger majority of people swore by the RFT ECC83 in V1. I had just heard that it messed with clean channel some when using the RFT. I got two RFTs off eBay for around $20ish each. I used them in the overdrive slots. I think the biggest thing that I may have changed might have been the V6 phase inverter tube. I don’t know if it was a matched one in there before. Play around with it. At least it is easy to do and change back if you don’t like it.

Alex
 
sinnersmoon":2wix0i1r said:
ablank2486":2wix0i1r said:
Thanks for the replies Michael and sinnersmoon. I have noticed that my active humbucking guitars do seem more quiet and my passive guitars noisier for sure. I've also heard great things about the RFT ecc83. I actually ordered a pair earlier today. I've read that they make a big difference in v1, but can kind of dirty up the clean channel a little bit? I'm thinking about putting them in v2 and v3 since those are the positions for channels 3 and 4, so I have read. I've also read that a Jan GE 5751 in v1 can make a big difference in the amp although it is a lower gain tube. Maybe that would quiet the amp down overall. I'm definitely going to play around with the preamp tubes some. I'll report back.

Btw, thanks for starting this thread, Michael. I just got my Savage last week Wednesday and have been dying to talk to someone/anyone about it. What do you think of yours so far? What were you playing through before?

sinnersmoon, besides the four 6l6 power tubes in the Savage SE, what are the differences in the two heads? I've seen where someone in Italy is selling one pretty cheap, but they don't offer shipping to the states....

Thanks,

Alex

I didn't have luck with lower gain tubes (ECC81 or ECC82). The lead channel lost some aggression that I couldn't dial back in. But give it a try maybe you will like it.
I'd suggest lower gain ECC83. That brought clarity and kept the punch.

There are some differences feature-wise. Savage SE doesn't have a Contour knob (I wish they would have kept it). Crunch 1 has its own dedicated treble knob - even though I'm a metalhead, I really like this channel.
There is also an onboard reverb that is not too bad but not the greatest either. It goes well with external effects (delay, chorus).
Pentode/triode switch is one that I don't use at all. It's too soft when in triode mode.
Cable and impedance checker is a nice feature on the back.
You cannot hook up two cabs unless you daisy-chain them. BUT you can have two cabs plugged in and SWITCH between them.

Tone-wise I cannot say. It was more than five years ago I played Savage 120. I'd love to get one though just for the sake of the test. I'd like to know the exact differences myself. LordRiffenstein once said that Savage SE sounded smoother than 120. He had them both at the same time.

It's a nice amp. I had an Invader 100 at the same time for more than 1 year and I kept Savage SE.

I too would love to test the Savage SE. I currently have Savage 120, Special Edition E670, Invader II 30Anv edition with the sound module. Heck I even have special edition preamp in rack too. But they have been hard to come by lately.
 
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