scottph
New member
My point being: Why include it at all in an (almost) all MIDI amp, when you're not going to make it programmable. Oh well...
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guitarman967
New member
I kind of understand what Dusentrieb is saying on this..I never even realized that about the line..
On the other hand, the amp is $4299 in the states and I think most people feel that if you are gonna have the head MIDI capable to make it flexible and versatile than why not go all the way?
The - mode is one of the best sounds on the head..
Making the Customer happy should be the priority and I think Peter had a good idea that people would be bitchin by it's MIDI ommission..
Having the ability to assign the - as a program change would not make the Herbert a 4 Channel head in reality because that mode is sharing all the EQ and gain region.. You can basically look at it as a boost switch
On the other hand, the amp is $4299 in the states and I think most people feel that if you are gonna have the head MIDI capable to make it flexible and versatile than why not go all the way?
The - mode is one of the best sounds on the head..
Making the Customer happy should be the priority and I think Peter had a good idea that people would be bitchin by it's MIDI ommission..
Having the ability to assign the - as a program change would not make the Herbert a 4 Channel head in reality because that mode is sharing all the EQ and gain region.. You can basically look at it as a boost switch
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Bryan
New member
Wahey.. Had a great gig Saturday night.. It was a big venue with a great P.A so the amp sounded heavy as fup.. Thanks for all the help with my settings.. From here on im just tweaking..
duesentrieb
Well-known member
I don't drink water - fish is fucking in water 
Are the two bright switches in the VH4 midi-swicthable? No. Hmmm - why not?
The +/- isn't a channel, it is a voicing, a feature - thats fucking all. In Diezels philosophy it makes sense.
And Einstein users simply grab their solder iron and three wires. The amp also costs 3k$ in the US.
Now move on.
To come back to the thread: Glad that you dig your conglomerate of imperfection, Bryan
Are the two bright switches in the VH4 midi-swicthable? No. Hmmm - why not?
The +/- isn't a channel, it is a voicing, a feature - thats fucking all. In Diezels philosophy it makes sense.
And Einstein users simply grab their solder iron and three wires. The amp also costs 3k$ in the US.
Now move on.
To come back to the thread: Glad that you dig your conglomerate of imperfection, Bryan
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guitarslingerans
New member
The same statement applies to the "Mid-Cut" feature on the Herbert, but that is MIDI controlled, so why wouldn't the -/+ be?
When I owned my Herbert that was one of the things I wished that could have been controlled via MIDI. I would gladly give up the mid-cut feature in place of the -/+ feature being able to be MIDI controlled.
-Ans-
duesentrieb
Well-known member
I wish it would have a midi controlled after burner as well.
My gawd - it could have so many things, like a built in Plexi or motor-fader or whatever. It is as it is - the +/- is an option, a feature, an additional voicing like a bright switch. The mid cut is a whole different story cause it is
a) innovative
b) tweakable
c) unique
On an XTC the structure switch is also just a manual switch.
Now - plueeeaazzze - lets continue with settings and suggestions for Bryan. OK?
My gawd - it could have so many things, like a built in Plexi or motor-fader or whatever. It is as it is - the +/- is an option, a feature, an additional voicing like a bright switch. The mid cut is a whole different story cause it is
a) innovative
b) tweakable
c) unique
On an XTC the structure switch is also just a manual switch.
Now - plueeeaazzze - lets continue with settings and suggestions for Bryan. OK?
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itsme
Well-known member
I think the amp's perfect and brilliantly designed. I look at plexi's, 800's, and good SLO100's, they're one channel amps. They're awesome amps, but 1 channel!!! With the Herbert I get 4 wicked sounding channels to use on stage. Channel 1, Channel 2, Channel 3, and Channel 4 w/mid cut. It's incredible to have that many tones at a gig. I personally only use Channel 2 in + mode with my hard rock band. I have no current need for the - mode. If I were in a blues band, I'd probably use channel 2 in - mode, and channel 3 w/moderate gain. Maybe someday they'll come out with a ten channel amp to make everyone happy, but 3 or 4 channels is plenty for me. I have enough to worry about on stage other than tap dancing thru channels. When I roll my volume knob back on channel 2, I get the - mode sound. You'll find when you shape the tone with your volume & tone knobs, your picking attack, and palm muting, you can get tons of sounds.
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guitarslingerans
New member
Except the fact that the + mode actually adds a lot of noise to the signal, so when i had my Herbert, I always ran the - mode for my high gain sound on channel 2 without the midcut engaged. In a band situation, I never used the midcut feature because the amp became buried in the mix, the only time I ever used the midcut was when I was playing by myself jamming at low volumes. I don't understand why it's such a touchy subject to suggest that the -/+ mode should be midi capable, especially when there are Diezel customers that totally agree and feel it would be a useful addition.
I don't feel like the mid cut feature is any different from the -/+ feature, because as you said, it's just another voicing option. The mid-cut is tweakable, but it is certainly not "unique", there are many other amps out there that have mid cut features on them. I don't understand why you are so upset over it, Dues, it's just a suggestion backed up by valid reasons from Diezel customers and users.
-Ans-
I don't feel like the mid cut feature is any different from the -/+ feature, because as you said, it's just another voicing option. The mid-cut is tweakable, but it is certainly not "unique", there are many other amps out there that have mid cut features on them. I don't understand why you are so upset over it, Dues, it's just a suggestion backed up by valid reasons from Diezel customers and users.
-Ans-
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Anonymous
Guest
I cannot believe that some of you guys need so many options to work with. I remember having a full digital rack of gear, my VH4, and playing in a commercial cover band, I needed a lot of variety. In the end, I only used 3-4 different variations on the basic sound as the audience will not be able to pickup on all the dozens of nuances you would like to be able to play as if you are in a studio. The live situation boils down to being able to perform well and make the audience entertained. I realize that you want to play your best so you want all the possibilities that can go into an amp, but there will always be trade-offs.
I finally ditched the rack and got a simpler pedal board that gives me what I want fast and forgot about all the midi bullshit. I used only 3 of the 4 channels on the VH4 most of the time and my Herbert sounds fine without any midi, and life is simpler on stage now.
What you need is a Tele sound, Strat sound, LP sound and maybe a 335 type tone and you have most bases covered. Variations on these can be done using guitar knobs, and an EQ in line.
Adding a midi -/+ feature to an already feature-laden amp, or making the entire amp midi selectable with 128 different settings is a waste of time.
Besides, there are other midi toys to help you get that stuff done. Keep the amp pure and simple for the best tone it can offer you.
The best sounding Marshall imho is still the SLP without all the superfalous bullshit the newer models have. These Diezels are fine just as they are. Peter knows what sounds the best and what will save the customer money without sacrificing tone and quality.
Learn to deal with the amp as is and think more about playing then tweaking dials and switches. Believe me, your audience doesn't give a shit.
I finally ditched the rack and got a simpler pedal board that gives me what I want fast and forgot about all the midi bullshit. I used only 3 of the 4 channels on the VH4 most of the time and my Herbert sounds fine without any midi, and life is simpler on stage now.
What you need is a Tele sound, Strat sound, LP sound and maybe a 335 type tone and you have most bases covered. Variations on these can be done using guitar knobs, and an EQ in line.
Adding a midi -/+ feature to an already feature-laden amp, or making the entire amp midi selectable with 128 different settings is a waste of time.
Besides, there are other midi toys to help you get that stuff done. Keep the amp pure and simple for the best tone it can offer you.
The best sounding Marshall imho is still the SLP without all the superfalous bullshit the newer models have. These Diezels are fine just as they are. Peter knows what sounds the best and what will save the customer money without sacrificing tone and quality.
Learn to deal with the amp as is and think more about playing then tweaking dials and switches. Believe me, your audience doesn't give a shit.
van hellion
New member
+ 1 million, i was trying to preach the same thing in a discussion about how the g system is awful and terrible, but in reality if your hands kick arse you should be able to handle any rig out there. My herbert gets me from country to rock and everything in between. in the studio you nuances pop out but live they just dont, its a fact. for example look at eric johnson live in austin city limits, tone is unreal then look at eric on the crossroads dvd and he doesnt sound as good, its just a combination of venue, time and how he feels, tons of stuff means way more than a single voicing option on an already super versatile amp.
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guitarman967
New member
:|::QBB:
Complete BS man.. I've heard this stuff from you before, something to the effect of "How lazy do you have to be to not reach back and flip the +/- switch?"
I dont think you get the point at all and the argument that adding that MIDI option would somehow degrade the tone holds No water.
Furthermore, if you really love the - mode and want to use that in your existing MIDI rig, then what "MIDI toys" as you called them would give you that feature?
I will give you this, I've gotten around this issue by rolling down my Gtr Vol on CH2+ mode to get the - sound and it works quite well but the point for many users is that they want to create a patch with that sound that can be called upon instantaneously and it's not possible.
For instance, if I wanted to go from a heavy gtr sound in + mode to a more laid back - mode that has some short delay and or phasing.
C-4":b1241 said:
Complete BS man.. I've heard this stuff from you before, something to the effect of "How lazy do you have to be to not reach back and flip the +/- switch?"
I dont think you get the point at all and the argument that adding that MIDI option would somehow degrade the tone holds No water.
Furthermore, if you really love the - mode and want to use that in your existing MIDI rig, then what "MIDI toys" as you called them would give you that feature?
I will give you this, I've gotten around this issue by rolling down my Gtr Vol on CH2+ mode to get the - sound and it works quite well but the point for many users is that they want to create a patch with that sound that can be called upon instantaneously and it's not possible.
For instance, if I wanted to go from a heavy gtr sound in + mode to a more laid back - mode that has some short delay and or phasing.