Brown sound reverb/delay setting help please
- Thread starter J.B.
- Start date
crwnedblasphemy
Well-known member
Most early VH recordings have dry on the left, and mostly reverb/delay on the right. Are you doing it with your cameron?
The Big Snit
New member
On the old stuff when he used delay (I think) it sounded like the time setting was pretty quick with a few repeats...but to really get close, use a delay that emulates the old analog sound, less Hi-Fi'ish.
ZachMN
Member
There is only guitar on one side!! Eddie talked about this all the time how he hated the mix on the early stuff!!! The reverb you hear on the first record comes from a whole room reverb at Sunset sound; it was very famous being heard on recordings from Frank Sinatra to the Doors to Pet sounds to VHI etc. Best thing to do is get an echoplex and run a line out so you would have your main signal dry out of head into cabinet then the line out into echo plex then into power amps then cab(s). There is more to the sounds you hear on a record than simply having the right pickup head and cabinet.
http://www.sunsetsound.com/studio_1/studio_1_sfeatures.html
http://www.sunsetsound.com/studio_1/studio_1_sfeatures.html
mentoneman
Well-known member
contact vhoholic
his reverb setting is prime
then talk to steve/sah5150 for delay
you will be golden
his reverb setting is prime
then talk to steve/sah5150 for delay
you will be golden
A
Anonymous
Guest
Here is how I approach the VH sound. Not all of it is necessary, but, hey, I had some time on my hands... 
My signal path starts with either an old ('82) Kramer Pacer or a Wayne Rock Legend guitar w/Floyd and low output bridge pickup. I use low output pickup (8.5-9.2K range) humbuckers in my guitars. My guitars all have Seymour Duncan Custom Shop EVH pickups because they sound best to my ears, but there are a number of folks who make similar pickups that sound great (VooDoo Pickups '59, Tom Holmes H455, etc...). I've heard guys get great recorded tones out of Duncan '59s as well and those are very reasonably priced pickups in comparison to the others I mentioned. Both guitars are pretty heavy and I really like the sound of maple bodies on strat-style guitars, although some find them too bright.
My amp is a Mojave PeaceMaker. I won't continue to rave about it here, but I'll explain how I set it up for recording. I believe that the low output pickups I use are a key factor in getting the tones I like with this Plexi-style amp. High output "Super Distortion" pickups sound awful to my ears with this amp. I set my PeaceMaker with all of the controls on 10, except the Bass Volume which is on zero. I ALWAYS record with the Low Sensitivity input. To me this another key to my tone. This channel has all the good tone without the added gain of the higher channel and you can hear the fingers which is where the tone really comes from. Live the perceived gain is a lot less from this channel and sometimes I like a boost of some kind to make it easier to play live, but recorded, the perceived gain is just right - no need for more. I think a lot of people overdo the gain when recording, which ends up making the tone muddy and ill-defined. I record this 100W amp with NO attenuation as well which is incredibly loud.
The output of my amp goes to a Mojave 4x12 loaded with G12H30s. These speakers are another key to the tone. Other speakers I've recorded with (including V30s) sound harsh to me with distorted guitars.
I have two SM57 mics in an iso box. One is on each of the top two G12H30s in my cab. I mic about one inch away from the grill straight on and parallel to the bottom of the cab on the far end of each speaker (right on the edge) on a plane with the center of the speaker. I find that I get the best tone this way and I have experimented with a bunch of different mic positions. Some folks go straight center on the cone and that sounds like crap to my ears. To me all the tone is on the far side of the speaker. Here some additional pictures of my mic positioning
I take the mic outputs into each channel of a Great River Electronics MP-2NV two channel mic pre. This is a Neve 1073 clone and it sounds really nice in my setup. You can adjust input gain and output level. The photo below shows the mic pre at the top. The cable you see is an insert cable on channel 2 of the MP-2NV.
On one channel, I have the input gain set at 35 and the output set at about 1 o'clock. On the other side, I have my H&K Replex (basically an echo) as an insert (nice capability of the MP-2NV!), so the input gain is set for 35 and the output level is almost full up. I have the Replex set for Single Head Delay. I have the Replex set as follows:
Drive = almost off
Output = 5 o'clock
Volume = 5 o'clock
Delay Feedback = 7 o'clock
Vintage factor = 5 o'clock
Vintage Delay Time = 3 o'clock
There are other settings, but they are applicable to other modes of the Replex. These setting give a small, completely wet, single repeat echo and basically I record a dry signal and a wet (echo'd) signal with the Replex. I cannot stress enough how important this is to the overall sound I get. Unless you want to deal with the hassle of an original Echoplex, you are not going to find a better vintage echo sound. I think printing the wet sound is a big component of my overall guitar sound...
The output of my mic pres (wet and dry guitar) goes into my Digidesign 888/24 I/O (A/D converter) and then into my computer. I have a Pro Tools TDM setup (MixPlus + 6 Vintage Farms - This is a LOT of processing power!) and I currently use Pro Tools 6.1. Some of the plugins I use are probably only available in TDM format, which sucks if you are using 001 or 002, where only RTAS is supported... I think some of them are essential to my sound...
I record two tracks (wet and dry) of guitar. Each guitar track has three plugins on it. First I use the Waves Renaissance Compressor (Attack=20, Release=20, Thresh=-13db, Ratio=4.01, Gain=0 - pretty standard light compression for guitar). I then use two plugins that no guitar person should be without when recording to digital: DUY Dad Valve and DUY Dad Tape. These two plugins give life and analog thickness to sterile digital recordings and are key to good guitar tone out of Pro Tools. I use Dad Valve first on the Distorted Guitar setting with Pusher=0. I then use the DaD Tape with Machine=Ideal Tape, Speed=15 ips, Noise Reduction=Noiseless.
I then instantiate two stereo aux busses. One has the Wave Mechanics SoundBlender plugin and one has the Digidesign Reverb One plugin. These add some "icing on the cake to my overall sound although mixed down in the mix from the dry sound. I send the dry track to both auxs and I send the wet guitar only to the Reverb aux. Soundblender and Reverb One are both stereo in/stereo out plugins, so I send the wet and dry guitar signals panned center. I set the SoundBlender for a micropitchshift of +-20 cents and left delay=375.4 ms and right delay=-326.6 ms. I set the Reverb One on the Long Plate setting. I cannot tell you how much more professional a superb quality reverb like Reverb One will make your mixes sound.
So..., at this point, I have a dry guitar track, a wet (Replex'd) guitar track, a stereo 'verbed guitar track and a stereo micropitchshifted guitar track. Typically, I set the dry guitar at Db on the fader and pan it hard left for VH-type stuff. Lately I've been panning my dry guitar dead center though and I like it. The wet guitar is panned hard right and the fader is set at -7db. The Reverb stereo guitar is panned hard left and right at -10.1 db and the Soundblender micropitchshifted guitar is panned hard left and right at -5.5db.
I often mess with the mix (volume) of the various guitar tracks depending on what else is going on with the drums and bass and what I am trying to achieve with the overall song mix. If I want something Classic Van Haleny, I'll pan the dry guitar hard left. If I want less pitchshift, I'll bring it down, especially for rhythm guitars. If I need more or less verb I adjust - nothing is hard and fast, you just have to hear it... I listen to the verb and pitchshift full up and then adjust back to where I can just barely hear them. The bulk and heart of my tone is still the dry guitar...
If any of this is helpful, great. If not, please disregard...
Steve
My signal path starts with either an old ('82) Kramer Pacer or a Wayne Rock Legend guitar w/Floyd and low output bridge pickup. I use low output pickup (8.5-9.2K range) humbuckers in my guitars. My guitars all have Seymour Duncan Custom Shop EVH pickups because they sound best to my ears, but there are a number of folks who make similar pickups that sound great (VooDoo Pickups '59, Tom Holmes H455, etc...). I've heard guys get great recorded tones out of Duncan '59s as well and those are very reasonably priced pickups in comparison to the others I mentioned. Both guitars are pretty heavy and I really like the sound of maple bodies on strat-style guitars, although some find them too bright.
My amp is a Mojave PeaceMaker. I won't continue to rave about it here, but I'll explain how I set it up for recording. I believe that the low output pickups I use are a key factor in getting the tones I like with this Plexi-style amp. High output "Super Distortion" pickups sound awful to my ears with this amp. I set my PeaceMaker with all of the controls on 10, except the Bass Volume which is on zero. I ALWAYS record with the Low Sensitivity input. To me this another key to my tone. This channel has all the good tone without the added gain of the higher channel and you can hear the fingers which is where the tone really comes from. Live the perceived gain is a lot less from this channel and sometimes I like a boost of some kind to make it easier to play live, but recorded, the perceived gain is just right - no need for more. I think a lot of people overdo the gain when recording, which ends up making the tone muddy and ill-defined. I record this 100W amp with NO attenuation as well which is incredibly loud.
The output of my amp goes to a Mojave 4x12 loaded with G12H30s. These speakers are another key to the tone. Other speakers I've recorded with (including V30s) sound harsh to me with distorted guitars.
I have two SM57 mics in an iso box. One is on each of the top two G12H30s in my cab. I mic about one inch away from the grill straight on and parallel to the bottom of the cab on the far end of each speaker (right on the edge) on a plane with the center of the speaker. I find that I get the best tone this way and I have experimented with a bunch of different mic positions. Some folks go straight center on the cone and that sounds like crap to my ears. To me all the tone is on the far side of the speaker. Here some additional pictures of my mic positioning
I take the mic outputs into each channel of a Great River Electronics MP-2NV two channel mic pre. This is a Neve 1073 clone and it sounds really nice in my setup. You can adjust input gain and output level. The photo below shows the mic pre at the top. The cable you see is an insert cable on channel 2 of the MP-2NV.
On one channel, I have the input gain set at 35 and the output set at about 1 o'clock. On the other side, I have my H&K Replex (basically an echo) as an insert (nice capability of the MP-2NV!), so the input gain is set for 35 and the output level is almost full up. I have the Replex set for Single Head Delay. I have the Replex set as follows:
Drive = almost off
Output = 5 o'clock
Volume = 5 o'clock
Delay Feedback = 7 o'clock
Vintage factor = 5 o'clock
Vintage Delay Time = 3 o'clock
There are other settings, but they are applicable to other modes of the Replex. These setting give a small, completely wet, single repeat echo and basically I record a dry signal and a wet (echo'd) signal with the Replex. I cannot stress enough how important this is to the overall sound I get. Unless you want to deal with the hassle of an original Echoplex, you are not going to find a better vintage echo sound. I think printing the wet sound is a big component of my overall guitar sound...
The output of my mic pres (wet and dry guitar) goes into my Digidesign 888/24 I/O (A/D converter) and then into my computer. I have a Pro Tools TDM setup (MixPlus + 6 Vintage Farms - This is a LOT of processing power!) and I currently use Pro Tools 6.1. Some of the plugins I use are probably only available in TDM format, which sucks if you are using 001 or 002, where only RTAS is supported... I think some of them are essential to my sound...
I record two tracks (wet and dry) of guitar. Each guitar track has three plugins on it. First I use the Waves Renaissance Compressor (Attack=20, Release=20, Thresh=-13db, Ratio=4.01, Gain=0 - pretty standard light compression for guitar). I then use two plugins that no guitar person should be without when recording to digital: DUY Dad Valve and DUY Dad Tape. These two plugins give life and analog thickness to sterile digital recordings and are key to good guitar tone out of Pro Tools. I use Dad Valve first on the Distorted Guitar setting with Pusher=0. I then use the DaD Tape with Machine=Ideal Tape, Speed=15 ips, Noise Reduction=Noiseless.
I then instantiate two stereo aux busses. One has the Wave Mechanics SoundBlender plugin and one has the Digidesign Reverb One plugin. These add some "icing on the cake to my overall sound although mixed down in the mix from the dry sound. I send the dry track to both auxs and I send the wet guitar only to the Reverb aux. Soundblender and Reverb One are both stereo in/stereo out plugins, so I send the wet and dry guitar signals panned center. I set the SoundBlender for a micropitchshift of +-20 cents and left delay=375.4 ms and right delay=-326.6 ms. I set the Reverb One on the Long Plate setting. I cannot tell you how much more professional a superb quality reverb like Reverb One will make your mixes sound.
So..., at this point, I have a dry guitar track, a wet (Replex'd) guitar track, a stereo 'verbed guitar track and a stereo micropitchshifted guitar track. Typically, I set the dry guitar at Db on the fader and pan it hard left for VH-type stuff. Lately I've been panning my dry guitar dead center though and I like it. The wet guitar is panned hard right and the fader is set at -7db. The Reverb stereo guitar is panned hard left and right at -10.1 db and the Soundblender micropitchshifted guitar is panned hard left and right at -5.5db.
I often mess with the mix (volume) of the various guitar tracks depending on what else is going on with the drums and bass and what I am trying to achieve with the overall song mix. If I want something Classic Van Haleny, I'll pan the dry guitar hard left. If I want less pitchshift, I'll bring it down, especially for rhythm guitars. If I need more or less verb I adjust - nothing is hard and fast, you just have to hear it... I listen to the verb and pitchshift full up and then adjust back to where I can just barely hear them. The bulk and heart of my tone is still the dry guitar...
If any of this is helpful, great. If not, please disregard...
Steve
J.B.
Well-known member
:|::QBB:
Damn Steve! Thanks for taking the time to write all of that! But to be honest, that was WAY over my head.sah5150":6b695 said:Here is how I approach the VH sound. Not all of it is necessary, but, hey, I had some time on my hands...
My signal path starts with either an old ('82) Kramer Pacer or a Wayne Rock Legend guitar w/Floyd and low output bridge pickup. I use low output pickup (8.5-9.2K range) humbuckers in my guitars. My guitars all have Seymour Duncan Custom Shop EVH pickups because they sound best to my ears, but there are a number of folks who make similar pickups that sound great (VooDoo Pickups '59, Tom Holmes H455, etc...). I've heard guys get great recorded tones out of Duncan '59s as well and those are very reasonably priced pickups in comparison to the others I mentioned. Both guitars are pretty heavy and I really like the sound of maple bodies on strat-style guitars, although some find them too bright.
My amp is a Mojave PeaceMaker. I won't continue to rave about it here, but I'll explain how I set it up for recording. I believe that the low output pickups I use are a key factor in getting the tones I like with this Plexi-style amp. High output "Super Distortion" pickups sound awful to my ears with this amp. I set my PeaceMaker with all of the controls on 10, except the Bass Volume which is on zero. I ALWAYS record with the Low Sensitivity input. To me this another key to my tone. This channel has all the good tone without the added gain of the higher channel and you can hear the fingers which is where the tone really comes from. Live the perceived gain is a lot less from this channel and sometimes I like a boost of some kind to make it easier to play live, but recorded, the perceived gain is just right - no need for more. I think a lot of people overdo the gain when recording, which ends up making the tone muddy and ill-defined. I record this 100W amp with NO attenuation as well which is incredibly loud.
The output of my amp goes to a Mojave 4x12 loaded with G12H30s. These speakers are another key to the tone. Other speakers I've recorded with (including V30s) sound harsh to me with distorted guitars.
I have two SM57 mics in an iso box. One is on each of the top two G12H30s in my cab. I mic about one inch away from the grill straight on and parallel to the bottom of the cab on the far end of each speaker (right on the edge) on a plane with the center of the speaker. I find that I get the best tone this way and I have experimented with a bunch of different mic positions. Some folks go straight center on the cone and that sounds like crap to my ears. To me all the tone is on the far side of the speaker. Here some additional pictures of my mic positioning
I take the mic outputs into each channel of a Great River Electronics MP-2NV two channel mic pre. This is a Neve 1073 clone and it sounds really nice in my setup. You can adjust input gain and output level. The photo below shows the mic pre at the top. The cable you see is an insert cable on channel 2 of the MP-2NV.
On one channel, I have the input gain set at 35 and the output set at about 1 o'clock. On the other side, I have my H&K Replex (basically an echo) as an insert (nice capability of the MP-2NV!), so the input gain is set for 35 and the output level is almost full up. I have the Replex set for Single Head Delay. I have the Replex set as follows:
Drive = almost off
Output = 5 o'clock
Volume = 5 o'clock
Delay Feedback = 7 o'clock
Vintage factor = 5 o'clock
Vintage Delay Time = 3 o'clock
There are other settings, but they are applicable to other modes of the Replex. These setting give a small, completely wet, single repeat echo and basically I record a dry signal and a wet (echo'd) signal with the Replex. I cannot stress enough how important this is to the overall sound I get. Unless you want to deal with the hassle of an original Echoplex, you are not going to find a better vintage echo sound. I think printing the wet sound is a big component of my overall guitar sound...
The output of my mic pres (wet and dry guitar) goes into my Digidesign 888/24 I/O (A/D converter) and then into my computer. I have a Pro Tools TDM setup (MixPlus + 6 Vintage Farms - This is a LOT of processing power!) and I currently use Pro Tools 6.1. Some of the plugins I use are probably only available in TDM format, which sucks if you are using 001 or 002, where only RTAS is supported... I think some of them are essential to my sound...
I record two tracks (wet and dry) of guitar. Each guitar track has three plugins on it. First I use the Waves Renaissance Compressor (Attack=20, Release=20, Thresh=-13db, Ratio=4.01, Gain=0 - pretty standard light compression for guitar). I then use two plugins that no guitar person should be without when recording to digital: DUY Dad Valve and DUY Dad Tape. These two plugins give life and analog thickness to sterile digital recordings and are key to good guitar tone out of Pro Tools. I use Dad Valve first on the Distorted Guitar setting with Pusher=0. I then use the DaD Tape with Machine=Ideal Tape, Speed=15 ips, Noise Reduction=Noiseless.
I then instantiate two stereo aux busses. One has the Wave Mechanics SoundBlender plugin and one has the Digidesign Reverb One plugin. These add some "icing on the cake to my overall sound although mixed down in the mix from the dry sound. I send the dry track to both auxs and I send the wet guitar only to the Reverb aux. Soundblender and Reverb One are both stereo in/stereo out plugins, so I send the wet and dry guitar signals panned center. I set the SoundBlender for a micropitchshift of +-20 cents and left delay=375.4 ms and right delay=-326.6 ms. I set the Reverb One on the Long Plate setting. I cannot tell you how much more professional a superb quality reverb like Reverb One will make your mixes sound.
So..., at this point, I have a dry guitar track, a wet (Replex'd) guitar track, a stereo 'verbed guitar track and a stereo micropitchshifted guitar track. Typically, I set the dry guitar at Db on the fader and pan it hard left for VH-type stuff. Lately I've been panning my dry guitar dead center though and I like it. The wet guitar is panned hard right and the fader is set at -7db. The Reverb stereo guitar is panned hard left and right at -10.1 db and the Soundblender micropitchshifted guitar is panned hard left and right at -5.5db.
I often mess with the mix (volume) of the various guitar tracks depending on what else is going on with the drums and bass and what I am trying to achieve with the overall song mix. If I want something Classic Van Haleny, I'll pan the dry guitar hard left. If I want less pitchshift, I'll bring it down, especially for rhythm guitars. If I need more or less verb I adjust - nothing is hard and fast, you just have to hear it... I listen to the verb and pitchshift full up and then adjust back to where I can just barely hear them. The bulk and heart of my tone is still the dry guitar...
If any of this is helpful, great. If not, please disregard...
Steve
A
