How to tell if a Celestion is made in UK or China?

I think the cheaper models(greenback/ vintage 30) made late in 2007 are Made in China, the upper end models are still made in England. I've seen some stickers on the side of the magnet that states "Made in China".
 
This topic pisses me off, because I see everybody selling their V30's in the local classifieds ans stating they're made in England, the majority of them aren't
Celestion stopped making their basic models in the UK way back sometimes around 2003
The only models being made in the UK are Alnico (Blue & Gold), and the Heritage and Creamback series. Mesa V30's are also made in the UK.
If you can't see a sticker or an inscription on the speaker that states "Made In UK" or "Made In England", it's most probably made in China. There are other more complicated ways to find out though
 
For quite some time, the little white sticker on the side of the magnet, or magnet plate had the number "50" on the side of it. These are Chinese made speakers for sure. Business is correct in stating that the majority of the production moved to China in 2002/2003.

Only the Heritage, Blue/Gold, and Creambacks (plus some custom speakers for some amp companies) are still made in the UK, as far as I know. I got this information from the Celestion rep directly.
 
Is there anything stopping them from making the speakes in China and slapping on a Made In The UK sticker on it? I worked at Kramer guitars in 1990 and we would get in guitars from Korea and remove any Korea labels or stickers and replace them with Made In The Usa or Proud To Be An American Company. Is there any legal ramifications?
 
Scumback Speakers":5yz4bu4g said:
For quite some time, the little white sticker on the side of the magnet, or magnet plate had the number "50" on the side of it. These are Chinese made speakers for sure. Business is correct in stating that the majority of the production moved to China in 2002/2003.

Only the Heritage, Blue/Gold, and Creambacks (plus some custom speakers for some amp companies) are still made in the UK, as far as I know. I got this information from the Celestion rep directly.

Yep... and from what I understand there were a number of lines that went to China prior to 02.
 
Sick Squid":2es36x4k said:
It makes no difference where they are made.

I'd say that is both true and false. Where they are made doesn't really matter, true. If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much. But Celestion did take measures to make the speakers cheaper to produce when moving them to China. That is one reason why both Mesa and Marshall insist on particular specs and magnet codes for their flavors of V30s. It's not that they tell Celestion to make them in the UK, but that they don't want the cheapened specs. Celestion then makes those in the UK because it isn't practical to make their smaller orders over in China.
 
barnesjd":1m08l7xs said:
Sick Squid":1m08l7xs said:
It makes no difference where they are made.

I'd say that is both true and false. Where they are made doesn't really matter, true. If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much. But Celestion did take measures to make the speakers cheaper to produce when moving them to China. That is one reason why both Mesa and Marshall insist on particular specs and magnet codes for their flavors of V30s. It's not that they tell Celestion to make them in the UK, but that they don't want the cheapened specs. Celestion then makes those in the UK because it isn't practical to make their smaller orders over in China.
That they did not (with respect).
The only thing cheaper about being made in China is the costs.
Mesa go for a magnet spec that was changed before manufacturing moved to China.

I see this China vs England myth posted and built on quite often, so will attempt to put it to bed
with some facts as I was told in a phone call to the UK distributor, an expert in the field:
80-90% of Celestions are assembled in China
The cone & voice coil are made in England
The viscosity and opacity of the wood pulp in the paper cone determines the sound
The cones have always been made by a small company - Kurt Mueller, who only make cones
They use the same paper as it was in the 50s/60s
There are no cones made in China

barnesjd":1m08l7xs said:
If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much.
in light of the facts above, this is my stance
I am happy to be corrected with updated facts if there is more info out there to be added.

I can add: the Celestion Hot100 is first speaker designed in England then made in China
more research went into those than any other Celestion ever
 
Sick Squid":3fhvqtmv said:
barnesjd":3fhvqtmv said:
Sick Squid":3fhvqtmv said:
It makes no difference where they are made.

I'd say that is both true and false. Where they are made doesn't really matter, true. If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much. But Celestion did take measures to make the speakers cheaper to produce when moving them to China. That is one reason why both Mesa and Marshall insist on particular specs and magnet codes for their flavors of V30s. It's not that they tell Celestion to make them in the UK, but that they don't want the cheapened specs. Celestion then makes those in the UK because it isn't practical to make their smaller orders over in China.
That they did not (with respect).
The only thing cheaper about being made in China is the costs.
Mesa go for a magnet spec that was changed before manufacturing moved to China.

I see this China vs England myth posted and built on quite often, so will attempt to put it to bed
with some facts as I was told in a phone call to the UK distributor, an expert in the field:
80-90% of Celestions are assembled in China
The cone & voice coil are made in England
The viscosity and opacity of the wood pulp in the paper cone determines the sound
The cones have always been made by a small company - Kurt Mueller, who only make cones
They use the same paper as it was in the 50s/60s
There are no cones made in China

barnesjd":3fhvqtmv said:
If the speaker specs is exactly the same, the location of manufacture won't matter much.
in light of the facts above, this is my stance
I am happy to be corrected with updated facts if there is more info out there to be added.

I can add: the Celestion Hot100 is first speaker designed in England then made in China
more research went into those than any other Celestion ever

Great info! I had always thought that the V30 magnets were changed to allow for a lower-cost V30 in China. Mesa objected to the change and now order the older one.

Another factor that I think gets left out is the simple fact that an older UK-made Celestion is used and likely more worn-in than a new Chinese one.
 
The one to really be aware of is the Alnico blue. If the alnico blue has a celestion sticker on it, its made in the UK with the 1777 cone (going from memory on the cone number). If the alnico blue has a vox label on it, it could be made in China with a different cone or made in China with the 1777 cone. The Vox branded alnico blues from the AC30cc series for example did not have the 1777 cone and thus sounded different than alinco blues with the 1777 cone.

So if you are buying alnico blues check the cone number and the brand label. If you are looking at other celestions, I wouldn't worry about where they are made....
 
guitup too":pvggd6u9 said:
Some good info.
So.....is there a quick and easy way to tell?

I always look for "50" on the magnet sticker as a rule of thumb. Otherwise, I research the hell outta the particular speaker so I'll know for certain. It's worth the trouble. Despite the facts presented here, the UK Celestions have better-smelling cork. :LOL: :LOL:
 
barnesjd":3ctouzfl said:
guitup too":3ctouzfl said:
Some good info.
So.....is there a quick and easy way to tell?

I always look for "50" on the magnet sticker as a rule of thumb. Otherwise, I research the hell outta the particular speaker so I'll know for certain. It's worth the trouble. Despite the facts presented here, the UK Celestions have better-smelling cork. :LOL: :LOL:

We have a winner :thumbsup:
 
I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised.
 
Scumback Speakers":5jmdl2vp said:
I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised.

So with regards to the paper pulp type, it doesn't matter if it's UK or China... new paper is new paper, right? :confused:
 
Just get the speaker code. Look up the Celestion code chart for year/month made, and if you have pre 2003 speakers chances are they made in England. My Tonemaster cab has V30s that date to '96. They sound Killer.
 
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