How to tell if a Celestion is made in UK or China?

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barnesjd":a4khw8k6 said:
So with regards to the paper pulp type, it doesn't matter if it's UK or China... new paper is new paper, right? :confused:
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I haven't used any of the cones from China, so I'm not going to speculate on their content/mix, etc. I do know that what they use for the Chinese made Vox labeled Blues is not the same as the UK made Cele Blues. It is a different cone, for sure, than the UK version, and it sounds different as well.

As far as cone pulp, mixes, etc...yes, it's all new paper pulp, but there are still different versions, and different manufacturers. I went with the UK made Kurt Meuller cones since I was familiar with them from buying hundreds of old Celestions. Once the cones get here, they are chemically treated/altered to acheive different frequency responses.

Racerxrated is mostly right, though. If you have a pre-2003 Celestion, it was most likely made in the UK, however, the V30 was the first model to be produced in China (if I remember right), and it was before 2003. I believe it was even pre-2000 but I'd have to go dig up my old notes on an external drive, and multiple emails from Duncan.
 
Scumback Speakers":14q9sy8q said:
I haven't used any of the cones from China, so I'm not going to speculate on their content/mix, etc. I do know that what they use for the Chinese made Vox labeled Blues is not the same as the UK made Cele Blues. It is a different cone, for sure, than the UK version, and it sounds different as well.

As far as cone pulp, mixes, etc...yes, it's all new paper pulp, but there are still different versions, and different manufacturers. I went with the UK made Kurt Meuller cones since I was familiar with them from buying hundreds of old Celestions. Once the cones get here, they are chemically treated/altered to acheive different frequency responses.

Racerxrated is mostly right, though. If you have a pre-2003 Celestion, it was most likely made in the UK, however, the V30 was the first model to be produced in China (if I remember right), and it was before 2003. I believe it was even pre-2000 but I'd have to go dig up my old notes on an external drive, and multiple emails from Duncan.
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Cool, and great info btw. I feel much more vindicated for my insistence on avoiding Chinese Celestions. :2thumbsup:
 
Scumback Speakers":2adja55u said:
barnesjd":2adja55u said:
So with regards to the paper pulp type, it doesn't matter if it's UK or China... new paper is new paper, right? :confused:
Click to expand...
I haven't used any of the cones from China, so I'm not going to speculate on their content/mix, etc. I do know that what they use for the Chinese made Vox labeled Blues is not the same as the UK made Cele Blues. It is a different cone, for sure, than the UK version, and it sounds different as well.

As far as cone pulp, mixes, etc...yes, it's all new paper pulp, but there are still different versions, and different manufacturers. I went with the UK made Kurt Meuller cones since I was familiar with them from buying hundreds of old Celestions. Once the cones get here, they are chemically treated/altered to acheive different frequency responses.

Racerxrated is mostly right, though. If you have a pre-2003 Celestion, it was most likely made in the UK, however, the V30 was the first model to be produced in China (if I remember right), and it was before 2003. I believe it was even pre-2000 but I'd have to go dig up my old notes on an external drive, and multiple emails from Duncan.
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Hey Jim if you could find that out that would be very cool..just to have the correct facts..thanks!
 
Racerxrated":in7v47pa said:
Hey Jim if you could find that out that would be very cool..just to have the correct facts..thanks!
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I'll see what I can find, but between work, introducing new products, and answering emails, forums are getting less and less of my time. I know I had a hard disk crash 5-6 years back, and I saved most of it, but then I upgraded (as Microsoft forces you to do) my email app and I'm not sure I can pull up the archived mail file.

But I think if you go to the Plexi Palace forum, and look up member dunXB, you'll find out a lot of that info.
 
Scumback Speakers":3ftqoum4 said:
I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised.
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Word. I believe my next speaker purchase will be some Scumbacks. :thumbsup:
 
For anyone interested in Vintage 30s, here is exactly what to look for:



T3903 8 ohm V30 made in China. Note the "50" on the right.





T3904A 16 ohm V30, made in China. Again, note the "50".





T3987 16 ohm V30 "Marshall Vintage", made in UK and no "50"

 
Scumback Speakers":1gwaff3g said:
I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised.
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You didn't get your scouts badge for diplomacy, that we can assume.
I didn't 'pass anything off for facts', and simply relayed what an industry expert, based in the UK said in conversation. Speaking with such an expert is as close as I can get without doing my speaker building apprenticeship. Perhaps you'd like to call up Jeff at Matamp and put him straight. He has been selling those speakers for a lifetime.
No, I'm not, 'in the industry', although in an open forum, why would it matter? It wouldn't make for much of a thread if it was just you speaking to...you.
On the other side of the coin, you are in the industry and making a living from selling what you tell to be reproductions of the old Celestion speakers. It doesn't take much of a leap to see how you benefit from lowering expectations of Celestion's Chinese output. That reflects poorly on your own name, so might I suggest you either desist from posting in Celestion threads, or quickly develop a line in tact.

In my (worthless) opinion, the old and new V30s sound close enough for the difference to be down to age. I couldn't care less where they are made, or where the components are sourced. Having seen the Chinese work ethic up close I am very comfortable that they are able to produce a consistently high standard of manufacture.
 
Sick Squid":zlpw74g6 said:
You didn't get your scouts badge for diplomacy, that we can assume.
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Nope, I don't have time to be diplomatic or to be politically correct to those who post mis-information about subjects I know about. And you didn't get your opinions or posts from your own hands on research, which I did. Also it seems that reading comprehension is still a skill you're trying to master, based on your misunderstanding of my post.

As I stated, there were issues until around 5 years ago, 2009. I guess you missed that in your fury to post a reply to try and make me look bad. And just so you have the facts, I do not make or replicate anything that is a current Celestion build. And I also was given the green light by Celestion 11 years ago to pursue the old 60/70's speaker tone because they didn't feel there was a market for it. Since then they've figured out they were mistaken, which is why they have multiple Heritage versions of their old speakers coming out now. Perhaps what you should do is get current with the facts of the speaker business versus what you "percieve" it to be, as it is obviously suspect in it's veracity.

Sick Squid":zlpw74g6 said:
In my (worthless) opinion, the old and new V30s sound close enough for the difference to be down to age. I couldn't care less where they are made, or where the components are sourced.
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This statement shows your lack of any concise knowledge of the old V30's vs the newer ones. There are actually four distinct versions of the V30 that have been produced, and there have been multiple discussions on other forums about how the Mesa V30 sounds different than the Marshall V30, vs the production UK V30, and now the Chinese built V30. Time for a google search to expand your knowledge. You might also get your ears checked by an ear doctor.

Whether your opinion is worthless or not is another discussion. But until you actually stop posting like your opinion is fact(s), when it's actually based on a distributor's discussion / opinion with you that you parroted and posted, your posts about speakers will lack the conviction, fact finding and experience really needed to be asset to any forum.
 
Yawn

Why does it always end with a "Scumback Speakers" vs "Other Member" showdown?

The whole thing can always be resumed to "I know stuff and you don't" going back and forth

Scumback Speakers":a92g8bgv said:
Nope, I don't have time to be diplomatic or to be politically correct to those who post mis-information about subjects I know about.
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No, ain't no speaker company got time for that
But you sure have time to write long ass posts to show your "superior knowledge" while insidiously knocking Celestion in the process
Go figure
 
Business":2xpah3aw said:
Why does it always end with a "Scumback Speakers" vs "Other Member" showdown?
The whole thing can always be resumed to "I know stuff and you don't" going back and forth
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Eh, SS has an agenda. Apparently he bought two used M75's years ago, and didn't like them. That's my fault, apparently, and he hasn't let that go yet. It's only been three years, I guess he holds a grudge against me for that.

No, ain't no speaker company got time for that
But you sure have time to write long ass posts to show your "superior knowledge" while insidiously knocking Celestion in the process Go figure
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I'm just dispelling the mis-information on the internet, sometimes that takes a longer post. As for knocking Celestion, I don't think saying they had a problem with their Chinese speakers that they corrected five years ago is knocking them. I'm sure they wouldn't have told me they corrected issues if there weren't any to correct. What would be knocking them is if I had said they hadn't corrected these issues, which I did not say.
 
Scumback Speakers":321vrnb0 said:
Business":321vrnb0 said:
Yawn

Why does it always end with a "Scumback Speakers" vs "Other Member" showdown?

The whole thing can always be resumed to "I know stuff and you don't" going back and forth
Click to expand...

Eh, SS has an agenda. Apparently he bought two used M75's years ago, and didn't like them. That's my fault, apparently, and he hasn't let that go yet. It's only been three years, I guess he holds a grudge against me for that.
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Seems like everybody that disagrees with you has an agenda
I'm not disagreeing with you
I'm just saying you seem a bit stiff when it comes to discussion
You don't need to be a good "people-person" to make good speakers though
 
Business":1iwhw0us said:
Seems like everybody that disagrees with you has an agenda
I'm not disagreeing with you
I'm just saying you seem a bit stiff when it comes to discussion
You don't need to be a good "people-person" to make good speakers though
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No, that's not it, at least not to me. I just don't have the extra time like I used to to help people on forums. That makes me write posts that get to the point quickly to dispel inaccurate information, especially when I know it's inaccurate.
 
Scumback Speakers":i5s6ttrn said:
Business":i5s6ttrn said:
Seems like everybody that disagrees with you has an agenda
I'm not disagreeing with you
I'm just saying you seem a bit stiff when it comes to discussion
You don't need to be a good "people-person" to make good speakers though
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No, that's not it, at least not to me. I just don't have the extra time like I used to to help people on forums. That makes me write posts that get to the point quickly to dispel inaccurate information, especially when I know it's inaccurate.
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It's just that it leads you to use authoritative arguments.
While some people are ok with that, I (and others) need a bit more clarification on your sources
We all appreciate when you can chime in though, whether you come in with facts or opinions
 
Business":2klv5pxq said:
It's just that it leads you to use authoritative arguments.
While some people are ok with that, I (and others) need a bit more clarification on your sources
We all appreciate when you can chime in though, whether you come in with facts or opinions
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Well, the problem is that if everyone that wanted to talk speakers was in the same room, we could get this done in about an hour. The real problem is getting everyone there at once. As you can probably imagine, I've posted the same responses to a lot of the same questions (or posts) about 500 times, if not more, so I tend to just "cut to the chase" now. You call that an authoratative argument (nice vocabulary by the way!), I just call it cutting through to the chase, or cutting out the BS.

I'm going to be updating the website soon with new products. What might make sense is to just have one page where you can read all about the various Celestion versions I know about (which won't be all inclusive by the way), Scumback recreations, how they differ, when speakers were made/changed, and what the differences are.

A lot of it is on the Plexi Palace forum, look for posts by DunxB, that was Duncan Boniface's screen name. He was a lead speaker engineer for Celestion for 11 years plus, left in 2004 or 2005. He posted a lot of the information on versions, changes, etc over there. He was a speaker nut of the first order, which of course helped with his job, but he did stuff like dig in the warehouse, archives, spare parts, and he was "Dr. Decibel" up till 2004. So he kind of had to know or find out this stuff. I had been emailing him since 1998 about all this, so that's why I have a lot of the knowledge I have. That & buying up over 500 old Celestions from the 60/70's and working with them first hand with Duncan, Orange County Speaker Repair, and numerous dealers/cab owners who I convinced to take off their back panels of their original cabs to document what was in there.

There's way more to it than I ever figured there was, which is why my knowledge is always increasing, but frankly as much as I know, I'm sure I have a lot more to learn.
 
I just recorded my entire EP with a Chinese made Greenback. Great speaker that kicked the made in England EVH Greenback's ass IMHO! :rock:
 
Superunknown":k6afkxp2 said:
I just recorded my entire EP with a Chinese made Greenback. Great speaker that kicked the made in England EVH Greenback's ass! :rock:
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Have you A/B'd them in similar cabs? I actually had my two Bogner cabs with one having EVH and the other having Chinese GBs. They both sound so different from what my ears are used to (V30s) that I don't recall much of a difference. Granted, I never had the opportunity to crank my amp up to appreciate any differences.
 
And so it goes.
Scumback wades in with his size 12s (12" speakers - geddit?) and then attempts to say others have an agenda against him.
There was no mention of their product until they planted their 4x12 in our flower garden.

Sure, I tried the SB M75s years back, some new, some used (is that of any consequence?), and the tone wasn't for me. At the time, I had the sheer front to mention this online, and they hang onto my trouser leg like a Jack Russell with his balls banded. They went on a tack of blaming the tone on Weber; not their fault they said, although there was nothing wrong with those speakers it just wasn't a tone for me. How dare anyone not write platitudes. I made no mention of that here, yet I somehow am undermining the product. Actually, they don't need my help in that regard.

Let me be as clear as can be: you are disrespectful in your approach and would do well to think before you speak. It would have been easy to come in and clear up the facts, which I invited others to do. You come across as an arrogant know-it-all, a four-letter expletive of a man. My mistake was not to love what you make. I urge others not to make the same mistake.
 
Superunknown":3kbcvkez said:
I just recorded my entire EP with a Chinese made Greenback. Great speaker that kicked the made in England EVH Greenback's ass IMHO! :rock:
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EVH Greenbacks are made in China

Edit: I'm probably wrong on this one
 
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