Speakers- live and learn

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gainzilla
  • Start date Start date
Gainzilla

Gainzilla

Well-known member
You used to swear to me about those Tonkers!!!!

I never knew just how much of a difference speakers made until Ralphie set me straight and gave me the tutorial... Personally, I find them to be the biggest make or break component in the entire signal chain..
 
I will never have just one cabinet again and people that live by one cab imo are limiting themselves in a huge way.
 
the best demonstration i can point to is by considering your standard three way PA cabinet.

no company in the world would ever consider loading a full range cab with just one type/dimension of speaker--

for example, a PA cab loaded with 3 - 2" compression drivers only capable of efficiently reproducing frequencies above 3k, or 3 - 10 or 12" midrange drivers, etc would sound very lame

unless they were accompanied by complimentary cabs that were dedicated to handling the neighboring frequencies, and properly crossed over and time aligned

if you've ever taken a 2 or 3 way PA speaker apart and listened to the individual drivers isolated, you would be totally unmipressed, particularly when removed from their specific cab position, yet combined and crossed over, focused properly in the right cab, you get stunning results.

i re-evaluated what gtr cabs should do when i heard r. bogner demo the uberkab at the amp shootout. that cab sounded so much bigger and dynamic than the traditional 4 v30 model, i instantly recognized the potential and soon aquired an uberkab for myself.

i tend to imagine full range gtr tone as a column, like a building, with highs on top and bass on bottom, and the different speakers you select are like placing different sized windows at different heights on the building, to reveal different elements of the bldg.

celestion uses the best "glass", use standard window sizes, and tend to put their windows in the perfect spots. EVs use thicker glass and put their windows in one spot. JBL uses no glass. jensen is the tower window with the pretty princess in it. eminence uses weird shaped windows, puts them in weird places, crooked, with heavy curtains :D

i even went a step further and now run 4 different celestions in my 4x12

v30, G75T, gh30, and greenback

one could point to some negative ramifications regarding differences in speaker efficiency manifesting in one speaker's volume dominating another in such a config, but i really don't hear any offensive problems.

perhaps a bigger potential problem would be slight differences in speaker dimensions, creating phase cancelations, without the use of dsps to time align the drivers as you would expect in a larger loudspeaker system, but again, if it's happening in my 4x12, i'm not being "bothered" by it.

the extreme practice of this philosophy can be found in the rivera los lobottomy sub cab and the ISP vector sub cab, but i'd argue that guitar rigs SHOULDN'T meddle in those sub frequencies most of the time, unless maybe you are going after huge arena band sounds from a trio or really modern industrial anger rock


but to me, that's what a BASS and keyboards are for, and adding the guitar sub would just create bass coupling/stage rumble that makes for muddier stage sound and FOH engineer anxiety.
 
Pat,

Your point of view once again was a joy to read........right up to that line about what you have loaded in your cab :eek:

I am sorry Pat but I am just picturing a mess from that cab due to the many natures mounted to it. I have not tried this before so I do not have much ground to stand on but I see this cab going over worse than Vai taking the stage with a Bassman and a Fender Strat :lol:

I have researched the origin of the Marshall 4x12 and it seems it was just shit luck that the dimensions used were the right ones but each of those drivers you named have their own characteristics and they will be fighting each other at volume.

You still OWN though :thumbsup:
 
That was a fun read Mentoneman :)

I understand the rationale between those who advocate mixing speakers and those who prefer all 4 the same, each side makes good points.

But I can't help but think that having 4 different speakers in one 4x12 would make for quite a complex tone. Sort of like a mad professor mixing his ingredients :D
 
Speakers make such a huge difference and it's not worth skimping at all, especially as much $$ as we throw at axes, amps and such. Weber has a 1225 speaker with a pre rola treatment that sounds absolutely killer. I just got my 412 loaded with them and they rock! Can't wait to try the original Jesus in a Box (JIB) with it! Should be here tomorrow. :D
 
So Carl, how many times in the past 2 years did you tell someone they were tone deaf when they suggested some celestions for you? :lol:

My Mojo 4x12 with H30's kicks ass. I wouldn't mind also picking up some MC90's. Those Black Shadows kick ass.
 
:|::QBB:
STEEL KAGE":240ad said:
You used to swear to me about those Tonkers!!!!

I never knew just how much of a difference speakers made until Ralphie set me straight and gave me the tutorial... Personally, I find them to be the biggest make or break component in the entire signal chain..
Click to expand...

cmon Kage, stick a POD in front of the best equiped cab in the world and it will still sound like she-eyte...important? YES! but I dont know that it is the most important... :no:
 
:|::QBB:
mentoneman":b5e42 said:
v30, G75T, gh30, and greenback
Click to expand...

:eek:

You must have a hell of a time restringing a guitar. You've got the GHS nickel wound .046 E, the D'Addario stainless .034 A, a Fender .026 D...with the wind slightly burnished. Bullet end! Not ball end!! Then the G string...

:D ;)
 
:|::QBB:
ratter":2dc11 said:
:|::QBB:

:eek:

You must have a hell of a time restringing a guitar. You've got the GHS nickel wound .046 E, the D'Addario stainless .034 A, a Fender .026 D...with the wind slightly burnished. Bullet end! Not ball end!! Then the G string...

:D ;)
Click to expand...

PLus he has to travel to Tibet and go to the temple riding a Yakk to have them blessed :doh:
 
:|::QBB:
Digital Jams":debdf said:
Pat,

Your point of view once again was a joy to read........right up to that line about what you have loaded in your cab :eek:

I am sorry Pat but I am just picturing a mess from that cab due to the many natures mounted to it. I have not tried this before so I do not have much ground to stand on but I see this cab going over worse than Vai taking the stage with a Bassman and a Fender Strat :lol:

I have researched the origin of the Marshall 4x12 and it seems it was just shit luck that the dimensions used were the right ones but each of those drivers you named have their own characteristics and they will be fighting each other at volume.

You still OWN though :thumbsup:
Click to expand...


no offense taken-
the 4 speakers were totally an experiment...i figured if the x pattern v30 and 75s worked, especially considering i'm not a fan of 75s at all,

mixing two more speakers i do like could be interesting.

i actually tried to ditch the 75s all together and had a gh30, v30 and two greenbacks in it at one point, but it got too boomy, and once i puled one greenback and put the 75 back in, it balanced out nicely. a lesson learned.

and as it has sort of become the "house cab", it has been on the receiving end of a peacemaker, a coyote, an orange ad30, mesa triple recto, and vox ac30, and every player using the cab likes the tone MORE than what they normally use,

so that is the bottom line.
 
:|::QBB:
mentoneman":29703 said:
the best demonstration i can point to is by considering your standard three way PA cabinet.

no company in the world would ever consider loading a full range cab with just one type/dimension of speaker--

for example, a PA cab loaded with 3 - 2" compression drivers only capable of efficiently reproducing frequencies above 3k, or 3 - 10 or 12" midrange drivers, etc would sound very lame

unless they were accompanied by complimentary cabs that were dedicated to handling the neighboring frequencies, and properly crossed over and time aligned

if you've ever taken a 2 or 3 way PA speaker apart and listened to the individual drivers isolated, you would be totally unmipressed, particularly when removed from their specific cab position, yet combined and crossed over, focused properly in the right cab, you get stunning results.

i re-evaluated what gtr cabs should do when i heard r. bogner demo the uberkab at the amp shootout. that cab sounded so much bigger and dynamic than the traditional 4 v30 model, i instantly recognized the potential and soon aquired an uberkab for myself.

i tend to imagine full range gtr tone as a column, like a building, with highs on top and bass on bottom, and the different speakers you select are like placing different sized windows at different heights on the building, to reveal different elements of the bldg.

celestion uses the best "glass", use standard window sizes, and tend to put their windows in the perfect spots. EVs use thicker glass and put their windows in one spot. JBL uses no glass. jensen is the tower window with the pretty princess in it. eminence uses weird shaped windows, puts them in weird places, crooked, with heavy curtains :D

i even went a step further and now run 4 different celestions in my 4x12

v30, G75T, gh30, and greenback

one could point to some negative ramifications regarding differences in speaker efficiency manifesting in one speaker's volume dominating another in such a config, but i really don't hear any offensive problems.

perhaps a bigger potential problem would be slight differences in speaker dimensions, creating phase cancelations, without the use of dsps to time align the drivers as you would expect in a larger loudspeaker system, but again, if it's happening in my 4x12, i'm not being "bothered" by it.

the extreme practice of this philosophy can be found in the rivera los lobottomy sub cab and the ISP vector sub cab, but i'd argue that guitar rigs SHOULDN'T meddle in those sub frequencies most of the time, unless maybe you are going after huge arena band sounds from a trio or really modern industrial anger rock


but to me, that's what a BASS and keyboards are for, and adding the guitar sub would just create bass coupling/stage rumble that makes for muddier stage sound and FOH engineer anxiety.
Click to expand...

My brain hurts now, stop overloading it ;)
 
I've heard a lot of Eminence speakers...haven't really liked one yet. :confused:
 
I've noticed the speaker thing mostly is related to what head I'm using and what sound I'm going for. With the PeaceMaker, I really love H30 loaded cabs for my usual playing. I found that with the MKIV, if I wanted something really evil sounding, say fast 7 string rhythm stuff, the uberkab sounds like what I was hearing in my head while the H30 cabs sound wimpy. In fact, no matter what I'm going for, I prefer the MKIV through the uberkab now.

But what really sounds good to me is mixing the PeaceMaker through the H30 4x12 with the MKIV through the uberkab... and... oh yeah, some echo from my replex through the VHT 2/50/2 into H30s...

Steve
 
Tonker must be the worst Eminence I have heard, icepick in the ear, can't imagine how it would sound running your Marshall-inspired amps thru it.

I have 2 2x12s loaded with Emis, one has Governors, the other Wizards and i like them a lot.
 
Carl says it all when he says they sound like "cardboard".
I get the EXACT same feeling when I play thru a 5150 cab with those POS Shefield speakers. Cardboard tone.

Keith
 
I'm a weirdo I guess... I like 75 and 85 watt celestions. I know most people hate the 75s and don't know about the 85s. :)

Pete
 
It is my opinion that speakers account for about 50% or more of your tone. I have done a lot of experimenting over the years with speakers and i must admit that it is a royal pain in the ass comparing them! I think Carl like many others did a natural progression in that you won't know what you really love until you keep trying out different cabs/speakers.

To add more insult to injury ... It has been my findings that different cabs from the same manufacturer can sound way different even when loaded with the same speaker. I have 2 Marshall cabs that are the same year and make(1960-b cabs) and you would piss yourself if I showed you how different they both sound even after putting the same speakers in each cab and comparing the 2 cabs!! One sounds dull and the other has a knock that the other doesn't have. That said, I can get away with putting brighter speakers in one cab and boomier speakers in another!

nuts I tell you!!
 
:|::QBB:
Gainfreak":c62fb said:
It is my opinion that speakers account for about 50% or more of your tone. I have done a lot of experimenting over the years with speakers and i must admit that it is a royal pain in the ass comparing them! I think Carl like many others did a natural progression in that you won't know what you really love until you keep trying out different cabs/speakers.

To add more insult to injury ... It has been my findings that different cabs from the same manufacturer can sound way different even when loaded with the same speaker. I have 2 Marshall cabs that are the same year and make(1960-b cabs) and you would piss yourself if I showed you how different they both sound even after putting the same speakers in each cab and comparing the 2 cabs!! One sounds dull and the other has a knock that the other doesn't have. That said, I can get away with putting brighter speakers in one cab and boomier speakers in another!

nuts I tell you!!
Click to expand...
makes sense to me. I've had the same experiences with the same model guitars and pickups. It can be a real bitch sometimes to find things that compliment each other well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top