Axe Efx 3??

marshall2553":3nud3hgx said:
Wayniac3":3nud3hgx said:
I'm not sure if I've ever noticed it.. is it kind of like a noise gate opening & closing quickly?
For me it's a high frequency "chirp" that sounds like the initial pick attack is being emphasized in an unpleasant way. It's most noticeable on bright, high gain models when playing through a regular guitar cab.

I tried to listen for this last night, but :confused:

I mean, I hear there is a definite pick attack sound when you hit the strings, but I pretty much get that on any rig.... especially when using an OD Booster like a Tubescreamer, which I use 97% of the time. It doesn't sound any worse to me than any other high gain sound, especially when a booster, or active pickups are used.

The over-abundance of lower mids (500hz) is what annoys me the most about Fractal stuff. Maybe it is my rig, but I always have to cut that frequency dramatically.
 
Yes, please enlighten us on this extra annoying 'chirp' that Metallica, Megadeth, Devin Townsend, Neal Schon, Dweezil Zappa, Deftones, Trevor Rabin, Tosin Abass..etc..etc..etc.....don't seem to hear or have a problem with. These artists(& many others) all use Fractal amp models live....not just the effects like some artists do who have tube amp endorsement deals.

Not to mention forum member Rocco who gets great recorded tones with his AFX2, & victim5150 who says his AX8 sounds as good or better live than his EVH 5153 tube amp ever did.
 
BYTOR":2vzti7c0 said:
Yes, please enlighten us on this extra annoying 'chirp' that Metallica, Megadeth, Devin Townsend, Neal Schon, Dweezil Zappa, Deftones, Trevor Rabin, Tosin Abass..etc..etc..etc.....don't seem to hear or have a problem with. These artists(& many others) all use Fractal amp models live....not just the effects like some artists do who have tube amp endorsement deals.

Not to mention forum member Rocco who gets great recorded tones with his AFX2, & victim5150 who says his AX8 sounds as good or better live than his EVH 5153 tube amp ever did.
The fact that so many pros use it and there aren't a bunch of people bitching about it on the Fractal forum makes me think it's something about my setup or crappy technique. That's why I was glad (and surprised) to hear others were hearing it too. FWIW I don't notice it all playing it FRFR with cab models on. I'm not ragging on the Axe Fx. I've owned pretty much every Fractal product, their amps models are the best out there by far.

At one time there was a "Pick Attack" parameter in the amp block that I think was introduced specifically to address this. It sounds like it would be useful in dialing out what I'm hearing but it was removed at some point.

PICK ATTACK– This parameter controls a sophisticated dynamic range processor that operates on leadingedge transients. Negative values reduce pick attack while positive values enhance it.
 
marshall2553":18dcg4py said:
BYTOR":18dcg4py said:
Yes, please enlighten us on this extra annoying 'chirp' that Metallica, Megadeth, Devin Townsend, Neal Schon, Dweezil Zappa, Deftones, Trevor Rabin, Tosin Abass..etc..etc..etc.....don't seem to hear or have a problem with. These artists(& many others) all use Fractal amp models live....not just the effects like some artists do who have tube amp endorsement deals.

Not to mention forum member Rocco who gets great recorded tones with his AFX2, & victim5150 who says his AX8 sounds as good or better live than his EVH 5153 tube amp ever did.
The fact that so many pros use it and there aren't a bunch of people bitching about it on the Fractal forum makes me think it's something about my setup or crappy technique. That's why I was glad (and surprised) to hear others were hearing it too. FWIW I don't notice it all playing it FRFR with cab models on. I'm not ragging on the Axe Fx. I've owned pretty much every Fractal product, their amps models are the best out there by far.

At one time there was a "Pick Attack" parameter in the amp block that I think was introduced specifically to address this. It sounds like it would be useful in dialing out what I'm hearing but it was removed at some point.

PICK ATTACK– This parameter controls a sophisticated dynamic range processor that operates on leadingedge transients. Negative values reduce pick attack while positive values enhance it.

Pick Attack is still there, at least on my Axe-FX II, Q9.04, which is the most recent version. It is on the advanced page of amp controls. Maybe it was taken out of the AX8?

The Definition control, or some of the other controls on the preamp page of the amp page might help also.
 
I remember the old digitech pedal board whatever it was called would sound like a helicopter if you picked fast. What a piece of poop that was!
 
Shask":1efa5vk4 said:
marshall2553":1efa5vk4 said:
BYTOR":1efa5vk4 said:
Yes, please enlighten us on this extra annoying 'chirp' that Metallica, Megadeth, Devin Townsend, Neal Schon, Dweezil Zappa, Deftones, Trevor Rabin, Tosin Abass..etc..etc..etc.....don't seem to hear or have a problem with. These artists(& many others) all use Fractal amp models live....not just the effects like some artists do who have tube amp endorsement deals.

Not to mention forum member Rocco who gets great recorded tones with his AFX2, & victim5150 who says his AX8 sounds as good or better live than his EVH 5153 tube amp ever did.
The fact that so many pros use it and there aren't a bunch of people bitching about it on the Fractal forum makes me think it's something about my setup or crappy technique. That's why I was glad (and surprised) to hear others were hearing it too. FWIW I don't notice it all playing it FRFR with cab models on. I'm not ragging on the Axe Fx. I've owned pretty much every Fractal product, their amps models are the best out there by far.

At one time there was a "Pick Attack" parameter in the amp block that I think was introduced specifically to address this. It sounds like it would be useful in dialing out what I'm hearing but it was removed at some point.

PICK ATTACK– This parameter controls a sophisticated dynamic range processor that operates on leadingedge transients. Negative values reduce pick attack while positive values enhance it.

Pick Attack is still there, at least on my Axe-FX II, Q9.04, which is the most recent version. It is on the advanced page of amp controls. Maybe it was taken out of the AX8?

The Definition control, or some of the other controls on the preamp page of the amp page might help also.
That parameter doesn't appear to be on the III and I sold my AX8. There's an "Input Dynamics" parameter that does seem to reduce it a bit, but I don't think it's only affecting the pick attack like the old parameter.

I don't know, this may somewhat be in my head. I just A/B'ed it with my Smallbox again and I think the model has a touch more gain at the same settings than my amp. If I bump the gain up on the real amp it chirps a bit more. But this is something that's bugged me for a while with Fractal products that I never heard on my real amps. That and other people hearing it makes me think I'm not completely crazy :loco:
 
I have the III, also had the II and the Ultra before that. To the OP, I think if you want to get the most out of it, I would not use it with a power amp and cab, I'd go FRFR speaker system. The ability to change speakers, cabs and mic's is a lot of the flexibility and great features of the Axe.

I've never heard the chirp, but I've always used FRFR speakers, not amps and guitar cabs.

I also think it helps to NOT think of the Axe as something to replace all your amps and pedals. For $2500 (new price), the III is cheaper than most high-end amps, so just think of it as another amp or a whole separate complete rig.

I have not had a chance to mess around much with the III because 2 days after it arrived, I started construction on my home studio. So I've had everything pulled apart and stored. Good news is final paint today, so I can start pulling shit back in tomorrow...
 
stratjacket":1l45k6d6 said:
I have the III, also had the II and the Ultra before that. To the OP, I think if you want to get the most out of it, I would not use it with a power amp and cab, I'd go FRFR speaker system. The ability to change speakers, cabs and mic's is a lot of the flexibility and great features of the Axe.

I've never heard the chirp, but I've always used FRFR speakers, not amps and guitar cabs.

I also think it helps to NOT think of the Axe as something to replace all your amps and pedals. For $2500 (new price), the III is cheaper than most high-end amps, so just think of it as another amp or a whole separate complete rig.

I have not had a chance to mess around much with the III because 2 days after it arrived, I started construction on my home studio. So I've had everything pulled apart and stored. Good news is final paint today, so I can start pulling shit back in tomorrow...
This is good advice. I enjoy the Axe most playing it through FRFR speakers. I've driven myself crazy playing it through a guitar cab and obsessively comparing it to my real amps to reassure myself that it sounded "real" enough.
 
marshall2553":234osp96 said:
stratjacket":234osp96 said:
I have the III, also had the II and the Ultra before that. To the OP, I think if you want to get the most out of it, I would not use it with a power amp and cab, I'd go FRFR speaker system. The ability to change speakers, cabs and mic's is a lot of the flexibility and great features of the Axe.

I've never heard the chirp, but I've always used FRFR speakers, not amps and guitar cabs.

I also think it helps to NOT think of the Axe as something to replace all your amps and pedals. For $2500 (new price), the III is cheaper than most high-end amps, so just think of it as another amp or a whole separate complete rig.

I have not had a chance to mess around much with the III because 2 days after it arrived, I started construction on my home studio. So I've had everything pulled apart and stored. Good news is final paint today, so I can start pulling shit back in tomorrow...
This is good advice. I enjoy the Axe most playing it through FRFR speakers. I've driven myself crazy playing it through a guitar cab and obsessively comparing it to my real amps to reassure myself that it sounded "real" enough.


This is the rat hole that is created when companies create the buzz around "real, in the room amp tone". Then there is the IR black hole. I love my Kemper for what it does for me. I don't compare it to a real tube amp because it isn't a tube amp. For me, they are very different experiences. I play it exclusively through computer monitors and my Atomic CLR. I play all of my amps (tubes and digital) and they are tools that let me express myself through my guitars.
 
marshall2553":3fmtnqe8 said:
I don't know, this may somewhat be in my head. I just A/B'ed it with my Smallbox again and I think the model has a touch more gain at the same settings than my amp. If I bump the gain up on the real amp it chirps a bit more. But this is something that's bugged me for a while with Fractal products that I never heard on my real amps. That and other people hearing it makes me think I'm not completely crazy :loco:

I guess this is a bit ironic because the chirp was one of the things I spent a long time trying to figure out why real amps did it and how to reproduce it. You can really hear it on the first VH albums.

Long story short: it's related to the amp's compression. You can reduce it by reducing the Power Supply Sag and/or the Speaker Compression. Or turn down the Master Volume. Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.

Personally I think the chirp is desirable and why I spent so much time trying to figure out what caused it.
 
cliffc8488":10jidq45 said:
marshall2553":10jidq45 said:
I don't know, this may somewhat be in my head. I just A/B'ed it with my Smallbox again and I think the model has a touch more gain at the same settings than my amp. If I bump the gain up on the real amp it chirps a bit more. But this is something that's bugged me for a while with Fractal products that I never heard on my real amps. That and other people hearing it makes me think I'm not completely crazy :loco:

I guess this is a bit ironic because the chirp was one of the things I spent a long time trying to figure out why real amps did it and how to reproduce it. You can really hear it on the first VH albums.

Long story short: it's related to the amp's compression. You can reduce it by reducing the Power Supply Sag and/or the Speaker Compression. Or turn down the Master Volume. Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.

Personally I think the chirp is desirable and why I spent so much time trying to figure out what caused it.

When I mod amps I listen to the pick chirp as well and mod the amp for it. I was taught this by a popular amp modder.
 
damm
this is a big can of worms
i was getting ready to throw down for the 3
so the kemper doesn't chirp?
i CAN most def hear the chirp on VH1 and i like it
i always referred to it as the 'clank' in my mind
now i am gonna go drive myself crazy and listen to 1000 fractal videos
it always sounded good to me before i learned about the chirp [SUBLIMINAL-DE-ADVERTISING ]COURTESY OF MY RIG TALK BROS
tee hee
 
cliffc8488":n9t439gs said:
marshall2553":n9t439gs said:
Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.
This may be why it seems more pronounced to me on the Axe than my real amps. I almost always have the master volume a bit higher on the model than I do on the real amp.
 
psychodave":8enmplh3 said:
cliffc8488":8enmplh3 said:
marshall2553":8enmplh3 said:
I don't know, this may somewhat be in my head. I just A/B'ed it with my Smallbox again and I think the model has a touch more gain at the same settings than my amp. If I bump the gain up on the real amp it chirps a bit more. But this is something that's bugged me for a while with Fractal products that I never heard on my real amps. That and other people hearing it makes me think I'm not completely crazy :loco:

I guess this is a bit ironic because the chirp was one of the things I spent a long time trying to figure out why real amps did it and how to reproduce it. You can really hear it on the first VH albums.

Long story short: it's related to the amp's compression. You can reduce it by reducing the Power Supply Sag and/or the Speaker Compression. Or turn down the Master Volume. Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.

Personally I think the chirp is desirable and why I spent so much time trying to figure out what caused it.

When I mod amps I listen to the pick chirp as well and mod the amp for it. I was taught this by a popular amp modder.

None of my amplifiers or tube amplifiers that I've ever played of the common folk varieties have ever had that pronounced picking noise leading every note played through them regardless of gain, master volume, or volume knob setting. I can honestly say that if my amplifiers did show any of that on high gain sounds, not low gain/edge of breakup gain, like it does in the AFX2 and AFX3 then I wouldn't own them. It drives me insane.
 
I don't know if this the same thing but I get that noise when I'm picking and depending on the angle the face of my fingernail is also hitting the strings. I think digital units accentuate this, but I hear it on my real tube amps to a lesser degree.
 
I have found that when a Fractal is doing something weird it was always something I was tweaking weird. It can be a pain with so many parameters to tweak so I found downloading a known good sounding patch helped then tweak from there. Save the original patch though so WHEN you screw it up just start over. And I myself much tube power amp sections to FRFR...YMMV.
 
marshall2553":2fic78xn said:
cliffc8488":2fic78xn said:
marshall2553":2fic78xn said:
Real amps do it when they are LOUD because everything is compressing more.
This may be why it seems more pronounced to me on the Axe than my real amps. I almost always have the master volume a bit higher on the model than I do on the real amp.

The master volume on the Axe is not supposed to be 1:1 with the real amp. It's designed to have a greater usable range, so running it higher than you would on the real amp is normal.
 
Keep in mind that the Axe is 20Kz-20Hz. Guitar amps aren't. I always cut the top and bottom 3 bands on the global eq. I've used the Axe for a good while and don't hear an annoying chirp, just the pick attack. I hear the same attack on my BE50, Plexi and Egnater TOL.
 
This is MY personal experience.

I have never owned an Axe Efx product so I can't directly speak to the "chirp" sound regarding any of those units. However, I am a Kemper owner and had an issue with the dreaded chirp from the Kemper that took me a while to sort out. The chirp IS related to volume and gain as Cliff described. Here's the thing, in a "bedroom studio" you really can only crank the volume and gain to a certain point before it becomes a squealing an uncontrollable mess. With recording with a Kemper via your DAW you can crank the gain beyond a usable and controllable point and then just simple turn down the track volume to make it manageable, however, since the gain is still up too high you'll notice the chirp more and more. In other words, recording direct to a DAW and bypassing your real cab allows you to set a "profile" or amp model beyond what would be controllable in the real world.

So, I backed down the volume and gain of my profile and suddenly the chirp sounds like the normal chirp from a real amp.
 
Back
Top