Struggling keeping my floyd in perfect balance/staying in tune

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Metalhex

Metalhex

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Floyd noob here. This is only my second time changing strings on a floyd. The first time, I did not change the string gauge or tuning. The second time, and on a different guitar, I did change the string gauge and tuning. Both times resulted in me going back and forth between everything for hours to get everything close to perfect harmony. This time I still cannot keep it to stay in tune... It's a FR 1000 series btw.

I stuffed folded mail under the bridge to keep it parallel/flush with the body as best as I can. I unlocked/changed strings. Tuned them up to relative pitch, tighten the nut down. Remove the mail from under the bridge, everything still looks flush and parallel. Now I adjust the fine tuners. But as im fine tuning each string, the string I tuned prior to that is already sharp. So everything is one step forward, two steps back.

Also while im doing this, I can see the bridge tilting up and not being parallel anymore. I dont know what to fix first so im doing everything between adjusting the two screws under the back plate, to unlocking the tuners and re-tuning it, retuning with the fine tuners....everything just to get the bridge parallel again and be in tune. Going back and forth a hundred times until I finally get it flush and stay in tune. The strings are locked in nice and snug and stretched, everything looks good. ::strums a chord:: "okay well that stayed in tune, here let me put it to the test and try a dive bomb..... ::strums chord again:: FUCK!!!!".

There has to be some much easier way that I dont know about so I can avoid the constant pushing/pulling. What am I supposed to do? Why would the whammy bar send everything out of tune when everything looks to be good tight and flush? It's always supposed to stay in tune in any situation, so obviously I'm doing something wrong. Thanks.
 
Use a 9 volt battery to wedge the floyd when changing strings. Don't change string guage or tuning. Change one string at a time. If locking down the strings pushes down the string, then it will make it sharp. The more extreme this is may indicate a lack of string break at nut due to headstock being straight and can be fixed with a string tree. Or you can use your tuners and go a few cents flat and be closer for your fine tuners. After awhile of getting used to it, then you might mess around with changing guage and tuning. A lot of guys (me included) hate fucking with them. So we will have guitars in diff tunings when using floyds.
 
I do this:

1) Pull one of the springs so the bridge tips forward.
2) Shove a stack of Post It notes behind the bridge to force it level.
3) Unlock and swap the strings. Stretch them and get the guitar in tune.
4) Lock the nut and retune.
5) Put back the missing spring and remove the Post It notes
6) You're probably out of tune. KEEP IT LOCKED and DON'T TOUCH the fine tuners
7) Adjust the spring claw screws until all strings are back in tune (ie, the bridge is level again)
 
This can save you some time on the tuning in the future:

 
Here's something not a lot of people talk about and I believe it needs to be discussed.

Take the bridge off the posts. Is there any wiggle or play in the posts? If so, it won't matter how well you set up the Floyd - you will always have tuning instability if the posts aren't tight.

How to fix it? You might be able to get away with wrapping the posts in thread tape, but if there's play then most likely you have coarse threaded posts, which will almost always have play. If you can switch to fine threaded posts that will help tremendously.

Another reason may be the knife edges on the trem are worn out or mushroomed.
 
sahlomonic said:
Here's something not a lot of people talk about and I believe it needs to be discussed.

Take the bridge off the posts. Is there any wiggle or play in the posts? If so, it won't matter how well you set up the Floyd - you will always have tuning instability if the posts aren't tight.

How to fix it? You might be able to get away with wrapping the posts in thread tape, but if there's play then most likely you have coarse threaded posts, which will almost always have play. If you can switch to fine threaded posts that will help tremendously.

Another reason may be the knife edges on the trem are worn out or mushroomed.
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Yeah, I´ve been talking about the wobbly posts for fifteen years now, but you don´t see it mentioned that much. It is a very common issue.
 
Once you get it set up correctly with your specific sting gauge/intonation and tuning,you will be fine. Yes,it sucks at first. Eventually you learn all the little tricks that work for you for string changes.

Once you have spent countless hours fine tuning during the first 3-4 string changes,you will start to see how all the little things you do add up to the issues you encounter...and you learn how to compensate for these issues as you change the way you do the little things. (BTW,I had to really think out how I wrote that but it does make perfect sense for the problems you will encounter and overcome.)

I personally always pull the Floyd out of the guitar when changing strings(tho I rarely change strings). This allows me to scrub it with a tooth brush to get rid of the nasty crap and lube up the naughty bits before attaching all the strings with it sitting on the bench(read as "my lap"). Then I reinstall it into the guitar and use a rag to set it close to level before stringing up the headstock. This is just what works for me.

Personally,I am giggling at your issues...simply because I remember your current frustrations vividly even tho they were so long ago. So very long ago....

I have to go take a nap because I feel so old now. But I am still giggling.
 
The wedding is fine, but once you get it in proximity you still need use the headstock tuners the get things close. You need to balance spring tension with string tension. Ignore your fine tuners until you’re done. If you have a floating trem, there will be a lot of back and forth until you’re done. If your bridge it tilting toward your neck, loosen the strings a bit then tighten the springs or vice Versa. Don’t lock the nut until the bridge is already in tune and parallel with the body. I also suggest elixirs to Floyd noobs. Less changes
 
I've had guitars with super wobbly posts that still stayed in tune because the string tension always pulls the bridge/post back to the same spot when you release the bar.

Quickly getting a Floyd tuned up is just a matter of immobilizing the bridge while you tune, then release the bridge and set the claw to get the bridge back to the place where the bridge was when it was in tune.
 
cardinal said:
I've had guitars with super wobbly posts that still stayed in tune because the string tension always pulls the bridge/post back to the same spot when you release the bar.

Quickly getting a Floyd tuned up is just a matter of immobilizing the bridge while you tune, then release the bridge and set the claw to get the bridge back to the place where the bridge was when it was in tune.
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That really doesn’t work with a floating trem.
 
It's how I've tuned floating bridges for 10+ years. Works best with double locking trems, but it at least gets a floating Strat trem close enough to be able to quickly touch up the tuning.
 
Make sure your locking nut is mounted tightly to the neck. If it is just a little loose it will rock back and forth and your floyd will never stay in tune.
 
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In regards to the first video, i understand what he means by compensation and starting with the middle strings. But the thing is is he has his trem blocked....how much is that making it easier to tune up the floyd? I have to buy a tremelno to tune as eaaily as he is or will his methods work without blocking the trem?

Also, my guitar is brand new like 3 weeks old...I would hope everything is in perfect working shape.
 
Metalhex said:
In regards to the first video, i understand what he means by compensation and starting with the middle strings. But the thing is is he has his trem blocked....how much is that making it easier to tune up the floyd? I have to buy a tremelno to tune as eaaily as he is or will his methods work without blocking the trem?

Also, my guitar is brand new like 3 weeks old...I would hope everything is in perfect working shape.
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I personally feel the blocking the trem during string changes only is just because it makes it easier. I would just push the bar down to raise the bridge bottom to access the saddle locks.

Seems like everyone explained everything already but the one thing I could add is that you didnt say what tuning you were in vs what tuning to changed to. If it is an extreme change like E to Drop G for example you may never get it set up correctly and will need an extra or upgraded spring to be able to hold the tension for a lower tuning.

Edit: you may also need a neck adjustment after changing tunings. That could potentially solve the issue.
 
Metalhex said:
In regards to the first video, i understand what he means by compensation and starting with the middle strings. But the thing is is he has his trem blocked....how much is that making it easier to tune up the floyd? I have to buy a tremelno to tune as eaaily as he is or will his methods work without blocking the trem?

Also, my guitar is brand new like 3 weeks old...I would hope everything is in perfect working shape.
Click to expand...
He showed three different guitars. A white Carvin with a blocked tremolo. What looked like a white Charvel with a tremol-no. And finally a red Jackson Rhoads V. The Rhoads V is not blocked and does not have a tremol-no. He was going over some options if a floating bridge is not for you.

Yes that tuning technique works on floating bridges. For that matter, that technique would be unnecessary on a non-floating tremolo.
 
maddnotez said:
Seems like everyone explained everything already but the one thing I could add is that you didnt say what tuning you were in vs what tuning to changed to. If it is an extreme change like E to Drop G for example you may never get it set up correctly and will need an extra or upgraded spring to be able to hold the tension for a lower tuning.
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I put on .011 - .052 and its in drop B. I wouldn't think that would be an issue? But also I forgot about adjusting the neck.....just another thing to add to the complexity. I tried the compensation trick and it seems stable finally but didnt have even 3 minutes to play with it yet.
 
cardinal said:
I do this:

1) Pull one of the springs so the bridge tips forward.
2) Shove a stack of Post It notes behind the bridge to force it level.
3) Unlock and swap the strings. Stretch them and get the guitar in tune.
4) Lock the nut and retune.
5) Put back the missing spring and remove the Post It notes
6) You're probably out of tune. KEEP IT LOCKED and DON'T TOUCH the fine tuners
7) Adjust the spring claw screws until all strings are back in tune (ie, the bridge is level again)
Click to expand...
This is the proper way to tune and balance your Floyd...ESPECIALLY steps #6 and #7. You have to use the claw and springs to get the guitar back in tune and under equal tension to the string gauge, or it will never return to pitch every time.

After that you can "tune" the guitar inside strings to out, and tune some flat and others sharp and all that. But #6 and #7 are key to getting the Floyd to return to "zero" and be balanced against string pull.
 
i'm never using a floyd guitar until i have a paid guitar tech to set it up for me every night. as an individual, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
 
2prog4u said:
This is the proper way to tune and balance your Floyd...ESPECIALLY steps #6 and #7. You have to use the claw and springs to get the guitar back in tune and under equal tension to the string gauge, or it will never return to pitch every time.

After that you can "tune" the guitar inside strings to out, and tune some flat and others sharp and all that. But #6 and #7 are key to getting the Floyd to return to "zero" and be balanced against string pull.
Click to expand...
Thanks everyone for the advice given so far.

I just want to be clear on a couple things..

So, at step 2, you mean to put the stack of notes behind the bridge on the top of the guitar? I've seen people block their bridge from underneath the guitar so I just wanna make sure.

Step 4. Lock and retune. How can you lock and then retune arent the tuners locked already or do you mean use the fine tuners at that part? (Because at step 6 of course you say to dont touch them) wouldnt you tune them first then lock it?

Step 6. "You're probably out of tune"...does this mean that the strings wont be tuned to drop b, but they will still be in tune with each other? I would think that they would have to be in tune with each other so that when you adjust the spring claw screws back to "tune" the strings will still be in tune with each other but now they are at the pitch I want them to be?
 
Metalhex said:
Thanks everyone for the advice given so far.

I just want to be clear on a couple things..

So, at step 2, you mean to put the stack of notes behind the bridge on the top of the guitar? I've seen people block their bridge from underneath the guitar so I just wanna make sure.

Step 4. Lock and retune. How can you lock and then retune arent the tuners locked already or do you mean use the fine tuners at that part? (Because at step 6 of course you say to dont touch them) wouldnt you tune them first then lock it?

Step 6. "You're probably out of tune"...does this mean that the strings wont be tuned to drop b, but they will still be in tune with each other? I would think that they would have to be in tune with each other so that when you adjust the spring claw screws back to "tune" the strings will still be in tune with each other but now they are at the pitch I want them to be?
Click to expand...
For Step 2, I put the block in from the back of the guitar, behind the bridge (toward the rear strap pin). Because you've pulled a spring, the tension from the strings will smash the Floyd block firmly against the Post Its, making sure the bridge is truly immobile.

You do the bulk of tuning unlocked with the machine heads. But you need to eventually lock the nut, which often knocks you a bit out of tune. That's what the fine tuner are for.

Then you pull out your Post It stack and put the spring back. The bridge may or may not be level at this point. It depends on how well set up it was before you started and if you changed anything.

If it's not level, you will be out of tune (because you tuned while the bridge was level, right?). So just adjust the claw until the bridge is level again, at which point the strings are back in tune (they'd have to be, their length has been locked).

Tune it to whatever you want while you have the bridge level and immobilized. Lock it all down and let the bridge float and adjust the claw if necessary to make the bridge level again.
 
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