Has Celestion Changed the Construction of Mesa Vintage 30s?

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dead-pan

dead-pan

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I don't know the specifics to the build of Celestion speakers but all the older Mesa V30s have a machined back piece. I imagine this the outer of the pole piece.

I recently picked up a 2021 Mesa cabinet and it had cast back piece.

I couldn't find a stamp on the cone but this speaker is still not as harsh as the Chinese verson.

Any thoughts?

Maybe the previous owner had it splashed with water? :)



20240316_114620.jpg


20240316_114712.jpg
 
stephen sawall said:
There is a lot of different versions of the Vintage 30.
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For sure.

There was a time when I bought way too many of them to compare.

This is specifically referring to the made for Mesa t4335 an t4416 models.

Here is one of the machined poles used on the older Mesa V30s:

20240317_145106.jpg


Not only is it machined vs cast it is an entirely different alloy with the machined version prone to oxidation.

There are a some UK Made V30s that used the cast pole such as the Marshall branded Vintage and some t3904. Though I do have a t3904 that has the machined pole that was from a Fender cabinet.

I have read that Mesa requested Celestion to stick to the old recipe for their speakers when changes were made.

I am curious what difference there could be and when the change started.
 
Usually when you hear a Marshall V30 it is the 16ohm version.
I know the Mesa version is slightly different anyways, but I think being 8ohm in the 412s naturally smoothes the highs and thickens the mids.
 
dave74 said:
Usually when you hear a Marshall V30 it is the 16ohm version.
I know the Mesa version is slightly different anyways, but I think being 8ohm in the 412s naturally smoothes the highs and thickens the mids.
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Correct..... an 8 ohm version of any model Celestion will be generally be thicker in the mids with less highs that a 16 ohm version.
Also, as far as V30 tonal differences from year to year, it's more about the sourced pulp material from a specific time frame that the speakers cone is constructed of.
 
Last edited:
Shoutout @stephen sawall for this.

This is all the versions I have found so far of the Vintage 30....

T3896 8 ohm Original Marshall Labeled

T3897 16 ohm Marshall labeled

T3903 8 ohm Celestion Labeled

T3904 16 ohm Celestion Labeled

T4335 8 ohm Mesa Labeled

T4416 16 ohm Mesa Labeled

T5321 16 ohm Marshall Mode Four

T5794A G12-60 S.E. 8 ohm
Special Edition

T5489 16 ohm
Relic 30

T5401B Vintage 30 8 ohm
Bad Cat version

T5731B G12- Vintage 30 16 ohm
Dave Mustaine V30

T5225 16 ohm 1777 cone
Hughes and Kettner

T5273 8 ohm 1777 cone
Hughes and Kettner

T3904A Vintage 30 16 ohm
25th Anniversary

These are all slightly different sounding Vintage 30.

"When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticeably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper."

T3896 G12V 8 Ohm Vintage 30, Marshall label, 70w, 444 cone

T3897 G12V 16 Ohm Vintage 30, Marshall label, 70w, 444 cone

T3903 Vintage 30 8 Ohm cone stamp – 444 (standard specification)

T3904 Vintage 30 15 Ohm cone stamp – 444 (standard specification)

T4335 Vintage 30 8 Ohm cone stamp – 444 – Old original spec – now Mesa OEM

T4416 Vintage 30 16 Ohm cone stamp – 444 – Old original spec – now Mesa OEM

T5321 G12 Vintage MF 16 Ohm Custom designed for use in Marshall MF series cabs. G12-CV60.

"What I was referring to was the construction of the speaker itself. Taking a 16 ohm vintage 30 for example, if you simply decrease the speaker voice coil turns to make it an 8 ohm speaker, the chances that it would sound the same in all other respects are slim. By playing with other factors such as wire gauge and doping, they can me made to sound similar, but not identical.

So, it's important to know that when you are comparing cabs. Comparing two identical cabs operated by identical amplifiers, but one cab loaded with 8 ohm V30s and the amp set to 8 ohms vs one cab loaded with 16 ohm V30s and the amp set to 16 ohms, you are going to hear a pronounced difference in sound and performance. The differences will be partly the difference in electrical characteristics of the speakers and partly the resulting change in reactance of the amplifier.

Even so, I think you'll find that two 8 ohm speakers wired in series for a 16 ohm load will produce a deeper wider sound."

Both quotes are Steven Fryette.
 
Someone did a comparison of the Chinese vs Mesa and concluded it was the ohm ratings that were confusing matters, IE 8 vs 16 really does sound different.
 
Chubbs said:
Shoutout @stephen sawall for this.



T4335 Vintage 30 8 Ohm cone stamp – 444 – Old original spec – now Mesa OEM

T4416 Vintage 30 16 Ohm cone stamp – 444 – Old original spec – now Mesa OEM
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I agree that running at 8 or 16 ohm will sound different.

My post is in reference to these models which are "Old original spec - now Mesa OEM"

The newer made Mesa speakers are no longer this spec as shown in the photo of the OP.

@the other John Browne

Have you tested these new Mesa versions?
 
Bottom line is you can not depend on a specific year/ model to guarantee you'll get a great sounding V30.
You have to go though a bunch to find the "keepers".
My "keepers" are all over the map when it comes to when they were manufactured.
 
Splashed with water?...riiight.

You know Nolly talks about the golden years of these speakers being from 2000 - 2003, and I've got newer 2021 v30's with that 5-6k rolloff, but still the best v30's I got are WELl broken in v30's from 2007. They are Chinese but they have this really 3D sound to them that I've never heard in another v30. They are also kinda bright, but not in a harsh fizzy way.

I've got those two speaker in combination with the 2021 speakers in my avatar cab and it sounds killer. Best cab I've ever heard and I gotta Mesa OS straight cab as well.
 
Braciola said:
Bottom line is you can not depend on a specific year/ model to guarantee you'll get a great sounding V30.
You have to go though a bunch to find the "keepers".
My "keepers" are all over the map
Floyd Eye said:
I once AB'ed a Chinese V30 against my Ipswitch V30. Both were broken in. I could tell the difference.
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There's difference between all V30's. Where they are made doesn't seem to be a significant factor. It's the cone material that really matters. That's from the research I've done.
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There's great sounding v30s from almost every iteration, there's just a higher "hit rate" of really good ones in the early 2000s mesa boogie cabs. Hence the reputation. Same with the marshall branded ones.

The machined poles of the Mesa versions are present on my early 90s UK made version as well. I don't know how much of a difference in sound it makes honestly - i've heard fantastic sounding modern chinese ones that were on the same level.

I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of all speakers varying in quality - even in the same cab, sometimes. Most of the "golden era" speakers are just from eras where whatever the manufacturing techniques were, they were more consistent.
 
Just stop trying to single out which of the above listed reasons is the answer as to why they vary so much. It’s all those reasons combined (and more) which gets exponentially compounded and complicated when you’re talking about a product that has had a production run of almost 4 decades and counting now. It’s much easier to research 60’s vs 70’s greenbacks for example because of their relatively short production runs and lack of OEM variants in those lines.
 
anomaly said:
Splashed with water?...riiight.

You know Nolly talks about the golden years of these speakers being from 2000 - 2003, and I've got newer 2021 v30's with that 5-6k rolloff, but still the best v30's I got are WELl broken in v30's from 2007. They are Chinese but they have this really 3D sound to them that I've never heard in another v30. They are also kinda bright, but not in a harsh fizzy way.

I've got those two speaker in combination with the 2021 speakers in my avatar cab and it sounds killer. Best cab I've ever heard and I gotta Mesa OS straight cab as well.
Click to expand...

I have a couple of 2006 V30s that I pulled from my cab and really enjoy. Definitely well broken in. May swap a cream H75 for one in a 2x12 I have. Those H75s just don't do it for me mixed with a redback
 
There's pretty big variances in the same batch, let alone years and ohm rating. I've got a buddy who's running through speakers, finding the best out of year groupings and then comparing them. The difference is pretty massive. Even if you get some "Golden Era" 2000-2004 speakers, they will all sound different.

That being said, most of the modern speakers are worse than the older speakers to my ears.. Especially the Chinese made ones. I had an Orange 412 solid plywood with Chinese V30s from 2021 that was way honkier and brighter than my other cabs. I picked up a Marshall Mode Four Straight 412 that had Chinese 2022 V30s swapped into it, it also sounded honky and too bright. I swapped 2 2002 V30s in the Marshall MF412 and it it sounds much better. My other Marshall MF412 Slant has Celestion Vintage 30MF and it sounds a bit warmer and much tamer than "normal" V30s. These are all 16 ohm, though.
 
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