Pope Francis met JD Vance and said...

VonBonfire said:
This doesn't square well with the part you wrote below.

You just said we have to decide whether to accept him as savior and repent which implies there is something we can do, which is true because we have self-determination, being made in the image of God. God has foreknowledge, but it doesn't trump our self determination. If I can do things to work out my salvation in the matter then it's not pre-determination as Calvin teaches. Seems like a protestant theological tangent more than anything.
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We decide as an event in our life but God knows what we will decide. God is always in control. I'm not sure how you reconcile that.
 
Well we can all make up labels and assign ourselves to them, but going around agreeing with RGX and then claiming you’re a conservative is more than a little funny. It’s also more than a little funny to go on and in and on about how fucked up America and Americans are while simultaneously crying about losing money from your pension based on the US stock market
 
Maybe you ausies should forget about criticizing USA and get to saving your own country before you turn into Great Britain.

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Thumbpicker said:
A conservative is someone who wants things to be the way they used to be. Traditional values. Traditional western culture - no multiculturalism. That describes me perfectly.
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That describes you perfectly as a racist and a bigot.

That's not the definition of a conservative in the US. A conservative here generally does live according to traditional values and culture, but doesn't force them upon everyone else. It's more in line with live & let live. You do your thing behind closed doors, just don't push it on everyone and act civil in public. The no multiculturalism is way off base too. A US conservative will welcome other cultures and respect their heritages. What a conservative asks if for anyone joining our culture to adapt accordingly. That doesn't mean you have to abandon your own heritage or aren't allowed to celebrate it. It just means to understand that you're now a part of a different society that may have different rules and standards. Conservatives just expect a person to adapt to the society they're joining, not the other way around. If a conservative moved to a different cultural society the would adapt to it, not expect the society to change for them.

There's another facet to conservatism; being fiscally conservative. Granted many in government are not this way. Why care about it when you're spending other peoples' money. But at the core it means being responsible with money. That isn't saying to horde every penny, just spend responsibly. AKA don't spend more than you take in.

Thumbpicker said:
Since it wasn't a wild west show in Australia even when we had guns - guns are not part of conservatism here.
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You have a poor understanding of this from a US perspective. I understand Australia has a different set of values when it comes to firearms, but that doesn't excuse you from completely ignoring our reasoning and attributing it to "a wild west show." Firearms have nothing to do with belligerently blasting rounds into the air. The right to bear arms is granted by our constitution. Having just defeated tyranny, the founding fathers wanted to guarantee the people's ability to defend themselves and fight back against the government if it ever became tyrannical. It's an insurance policy to ensure true freedom. What that amounts to is good or bad, everything that happens in the US is by freedom of choice (of the people), not dictation by a ruler with no say from the people.

Thumbpicker said:
What you call conservatism in the US is a freak show because you were always freaks.
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Says the person who lives in a land that was originally founded as solely a penal colony.
Before you jump in with your typical "so was America" response I'll cut you off. Yes, British did transport prisoners to the Americas to be put into labor, but that was not the foundation.

Thumbpicker said:
Conservatism is not all about conspiracy theories, believing in UFO's, anti vaxxing, anti medicine and about flat earths.
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No real conservative ever claimed that's what conservatism is all about. In this regard it's about finding the truth. Sometimes wild theories pop up. That doesn't mean conspiracies and anti-science are core values. Conservatives concern themselves with the truth of the matter, not how it makes you feel.

I'll concede that the definition of a conservative may vary slightly from country to country and/or culture to culture. I can almost guarantee none of those variances line up with your personal view of what makes a conservative. Feel free to spout off whatever nonsense in rebuttal, but you've already proven time and again you have no clue what it is to be an actual conservative.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
That describes you perfectly as a racist and a bigot.

That's not the definition of a conservative in the US. A conservative here generally does live according to traditional values and culture, but doesn't force them upon everyone else. It's more in line with live & let live. You do your thing behind closed doors, just don't push it on everyone and act civil in public. The no multiculturalism is way off base too. A US conservative will welcome other cultures and respect their heritages. What a conservative asks if for anyone joining our culture to adapt accordingly. That doesn't mean you have to abandon your own heritage or aren't allowed to celebrate it. It just means to understand that you're now a part of a different society that may have different rules and standards. Conservatives just expect a person to adapt to the society they're joining, not the other way around. If a conservative moved to a different cultural society the would adapt to it, not expect the society to change for them.

There's another facet to conservatism; being fiscally conservative. Granted many in government are not this way. Why care about it when you're spending other peoples' money. But at the core it means being responsible with money. That isn't saying to horde every penny, just spend responsibly. AKA don't spend more than you take in.


You have a poor understanding of this from a US perspective. I understand Australia has a different set of values when it comes to firearms, but that doesn't excuse you from completely ignoring our reasoning and attributing it to "a wild west show." Firearms have nothing to do with belligerently blasting rounds into the air. The right to bear arms is granted by our constitution. Having just defeated tyranny, the founding fathers wanted to guarantee the people's ability to defend themselves and fight back against the government if it ever became tyrannical. It's an insurance policy to ensure true freedom. What that amounts to is good or bad, everything that happens in the US is by freedom of choice (of the people), not dictation by a ruler with no say from the people.


Says the person who lives in a land that was originally founded as solely a penal colony.
Before you jump in with your typical "so was America" response I'll cut you off. Yes, British did transport prisoners to the Americas to be put into labor, but that was not the foundation.


No real conservative ever claimed that's what conservatism is all about. In this regard it's about finding the truth. Sometimes wild theories pop up. That doesn't mean conspiracies and anti-science are core values. Conservatives concern themselves with the truth of the matter, not how it makes you feel.

I'll concede that the definition of a conservative may vary slightly from country to country and/or culture to culture. I can almost guarantee none of those variances line up with your personal view of what makes a conservative. Feel free to spout off whatever nonsense in rebuttal, but you've already proven time and again you have no clue what it is to be an actual conservative.
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This is so well written, I'd like it on a T-Shirt please.
 
@VonBonfire I can't remember where I read it, but I found an interesting take on self-determination vs pre-destination. It's not perfect, but to me it reconciled the two pretty well. The concept we determine our own path, but God can see where each possible path leads. We have the full freedom to choose. God can see each choice set before us, each path it will lead down, and ultimately where we end up. As we freely make each choice it prunes out choices & paths that we could no longer take.
 
I only want to know if JD Vance wears eyeliner or not???????????????? The CCP says he does.................................:p:LOL:
 
MadAsAHatter said:
That's not the definition of a conservative in the US. A conservative here generally does live according to traditional values and culture, but doesn't force them upon everyone else. It's more in line with live & let live. You do your thing behind closed doors, just don't push it on everyone and act civil in public. The no multiculturalism is way off base too. A US conservative will welcome other cultures and respect their heritages. What a conservative asks if for anyone joining our culture to adapt accordingly. That doesn't mean you have to abandon your own heritage or aren't allowed to celebrate it. It just means to understand that you're now a part of a different society that may have different rules and standards. Conservatives just expect a person to adapt to the society they're joining, not the other way around. If a conservative moved to a different cultural society the would adapt to it, not expect the society to change for them.

There's another facet to conservatism; being fiscally conservative.
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The roots of the word conservative imply a keeping of traditional values. But American conservatism had changed a lot over the years, so there is a tension. I don't think that multiculturalism, feminism, etc are conservative values, at least historically. Same with the libertarian free market stuff. What people refer to as paleoconservative is much more in keeping with real American conservativism than the neoconservative branch.
 
“wait what…where’s the little boys? I thought they said J.E. (Epstein) not J.D.”
 
Bad Brain said:
The roots of the word conservative imply a keeping of traditional values. But American conservatism had changed a lot over the years, so there is a tension. I don't think that multiculturalism, feminism, etc are conservative values, at least historically. Same with the libertarian free market stuff. What people refer to as paleoconservative is much more in keeping with real American conservativism than the neoconservative branch.
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I never claimed to be a conservative; I'm a Constitutionalist / traditionalist. Anything that goes against the Constitution is invalid. Want (spelling!) to make it valid, then amend the Constitution.
 
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rsm said:
I never claimed to be a conservative; I'm a Constitutionalist / traditionalist. Anything that goes against the Constitution is invalid. What to make it valid, then amend the Constitution.
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I think a lot of people would put the label of conservative on me, but I don't consider myself a conservative. I'm not sure if there's a term for someone who takes in bits and pieces of every viewpoint. Maybe centrist, but I don't know if that applies. Or at least I don't like it because it implies riding the fence and being too wishy-washy.

I think the Constitution is held above all else similar to a Constitutionalist.
I'm for giving the people a voice like a Populist.
Like a Libertarian I don't think the gov't should be involved in markets or personal lives
I favor traditional ideals and fiscial responsibility like a Conservative.
I'm for representation for the common worker (but not through unions) and small government like a traditional democrat.
I'm also Gen X and take on some of the beliefs of that generation; Some big ones are independence, adaptability, accountability, and a live & let live outlook.

I could go on with the list. That's just me embracing the ideal versions of small parts of the whole, but not being fully ingrained into any particular one.
 
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Floyd Eye said:
Well we can all make up labels and assign ourselves to them, but going around agreeing with RGX and then claiming you’re a conservative is more than a little funny. It’s also more than a little funny to go on and in and on about how fucked up America and Americans are while simultaneously crying about losing money from your pension based on the US stock market
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Read the definition of conservative. I'm conservative. It's your definition of conservative in the US that is out of whack - not mine. I agree with RGX because obviously he doesn't like a prick of country threatening his own. It's detestable. Wanting to keep Canada from being invaded or coerced into submission via tariffs is conservative too.
 
Thumbpicker said:
Read the definition of conservative. I'm conservative. It's your definition of conservative in the US that is out of whack - not mine. I agree with RGX because obviously he doesn't like a prick of country threatening his own. It's detestable. Wanting to keep Canada from being invaded or coerced into submission via tariffs is conservative too.
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Dude, if you think American political definitions are out of whack you’re smoking too much dope. If you want European norms so bad you should be doing your investing in Frankfurt.

By the way, I just bought my wife about $500 worth of opal jewelry. I’m not sweatin’ money. I did it as a favor to you. To boost your country’s economy up out of the shitter. 🤣
 
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