Please compare: El34 Shiva, KT88 Shiva, 6L6 Shiva, & 20th??

reverymike

Active member
Just looking for a straight up description of the differences in all these different versions of the Shiva. I absolutely love the tone Justin Derricco is getting from his amp. Not sure which one would be best for me. I'm a long time 101b player, but really dig the round gainy tones of the Shiva.
 
Hey Mike. I posted this in another thread, but figured I'd re-post, and expand upon my thoughts here:

While I'm not a Shiva expert, I have pretty good experience in the different models. Here's some info.

Standard EL34 model. If you're digging the Justin Derrico Tone, this is where you'd want to start. Chimey, vintage EL34, Bassman-esque cleans. Warm, crunchy gain. Pleasantly fuzzy top end. Smooth. The older Silver Panel ones sound great, but be prepared to deal with a very finicky and cumbersome effects loop situation.

20th Anny: Everyone always says "20th has more gain, 20th has more gain..." This is true, BUT... the gain structure on the 20th is identical to the Regular EL34 - IF you have the "mode" switch dis-engaged. Same basic gain taper. But activating the gain "mode" just about doubles the saturation, and adds in a slight vowel-y, thick mid frequency boost. Running KT88s, you get big, bold, glassy cleans. Tight, big, punchy gain, lots of bite. Very bold sounding. Modern, not a lot of "flex" feel from the power section.

EL34 modded 20th: While not exactly a "best of both worlds", the EL34s add some haze and chime to the cleans, and take away some of the extreme bass and treble from the gain channel. Basically, makes it a less in your face version of the 20th, slightly more vintage. (or conversely, a more modern version of the standard, with more teeth). That's what I'm rocking currently, and I dig it.

Everyone also claims that the 20th was designed around KT88s. True, not true? I have no idea. But I will say that the 20th is the kind of amp where the circuit is organic and neutral enough, to let the tone of the power tubes shine through. I don't think you lose anything switching to EL34s - you just let the amp take on the traditional characteristics of that particular tube.

Keep in mind that anything "20th" from Bogner is going to have more upper-mid presence than the regular offerings. They added in some bite to go along with the growl.
 
Thanks Nick, I appreciate your input. I think either a standard EL34 or 20th EL34 version would suit me. Although the 20th with the KT88s are intriguing.

Thanks!!
 
Not sure how handy you are on working on amps, but the "mod" to switch KT88s to EL34's is stupid simple.

Just desolder (or snip) one leg of a piggybacked resistor for the bias pot. (I used shrinkwrap to make sure it didn't rattle around).

If you ever want to go back to stock, just re-solder.

The tonal options on the 20th are great, and the resonance knob on the back lets you fine tune the "cabinet thunk" (similar to the whomp switch on a PT100...)
 
I have owned all three, but currently own the 20th Ann. EL34 version. Rockstarnick gave you a pretty good, concise rundown of all three, but I'll elaborate a bit more.

Starting with the EL34 Shiva, what comes to mind is a plentiful midrange, deep lows, and brilliant highs. I think of the midrange as "smoky," but like Rockstarnick and others have described before, you could say it's "hazy." To me it's kind of like a smooth grit in the sound. I have heard people describe the Shiva as fuzzy, but I wouldn't agree. Perhaps is the smokiness or haziness they're referring to. If Orange amps are considered "fuzzy" then the Shiva doesn't fit into that category. To my ears, it seems to have a great strength in the low mids which gives the Shiva a thick sound. It has a slightly more polite midrange growl than the typical British high gain amp like say a JCM800.

The 6L6 version is nearly as bassy as the KT88 version. If you compared the low end of the 6L6 and KT88 versions, perhaps it could be said that the 6L6 is kind of thumpy whereas the KT88 is kind of boomy. The cleans are slightly more brilliant with 6L6's. I wouldn't say the overdrive of the 6L6's lacks anything because it sounds quite good, but it has a different feel which is probably more comparable to the KT88 version which has been said to feel a bit "stiff." The breakup is not the same as EL34's so the 6L6 version naturally has an incredible sound from clean to light overdrive, but not as rich with more overdrive.

The 20th Anniversary KT88 version is immaculate. It's has a very deep, detailed, 3D sound. The low end isn't as tight as with EL34's, 6L6's are marginally tighter than KT88's. I wouldn't say KT88's are loose though, it's just a fuller low end with beautiful depth. I think the KT88 version is the most expressive sounding of all the Shiva models. It has an alive quality which makes it almost feel like less effort is required to make the notes come out. Sweeps and arpeggios roll off your fingers with almost an oily drip. It has kind of a squishy pick attack that feels a bit stiff because it doesn't have the chewy midrange of EL34's. The midrange is more balanced than EL34's and perhaps marginally less scooped than 6L6's.

The 20th Ann. EL34 version (which I have) is chewier, more vintage, and less wide than with KT88's. It has a spongy attack and retains most of the smokiness or haziness described of the EL34 Shiva, but also marginally more refined than the stock Shiva. The midrange is more aggressive than with KT88's. Also, the EL34's don't have the same wideness and separation that KT88's have. The cleans are pretty much the same as a stock Shiva, but you have the advantage of using the boost to get all kinds of clean breakup and classic rock sounds while still being able to use the tone controls (something the stock shiva can't do).

The 20th Ann. model with KT88's is a bit hi-fi sounding compared to the stock Shiva. With EL34's, it's more vintage sounding but still has a bit of the hi-fi quality. Modern mode, in my opinion is better than classic mode when the 20th Shiva is equipped with EL34's. However, the KT88 version sounds equally great in both modes. I can't describe exactly what it is, but there's something very subtle that's missing from classic mode with EL34's installed in the 20th Shiva.

When it comes to the clean channel, I would say KT88's are my favorite, followed by 6L6's, then EL34's. However, I wouldn't say any are better than the other. It's a matter of taste. I just think the KT88 version has more lushness and depth.

If there is any criticism to the KT88 model, it could be that it has an almost papery kind of overdrive in comparison. However, I have found that careful dialing of the excursion, mid and presence controls have a lot to do with that. The tone controls seem to be interactive. Turning up the mids seems to increase the presence, so an increase in mids requires a decrease in presence. I can't describe how the excursion control affects the tone controls, but it seems like if I just leave it off, it's hard to get rid of the paperyness at lower volumes.

I have also heard people say the KT88 version has more gain but I think it's a matter of attack. The KT88 version FEELS like it has more gain and more easily yields a liquid solo tone, but has no more gain than the 20th EL34. It has a stiffer breakup than EL34. The 20th Anniversary model (EL34 or KT88) has pretty much the same amount of gain available on a stock Shiva on the classic channel. It's the modern channel that has lots of gain.

It is said that the 20th Anniversary Shiva is designed around KT88's, but from some of the techy stuff I've read, the components used don't necessarily reflect that. I personally think it sounds awesome with EL34's. However, I have come full circle after all of this time and experimenting and decided that I will go back to KT88's or 6550's. Partly because I want to get back that aliveness that I perceive, and partly because my 101B gives me so many great EL34 tones that having two EL34 amps is overkill.

In any case, all versions of the Shiva are incredible. Summary:

The stock EL34 model is just an overall great, versatile, amp for clean and gain. It's the best with varieties of overdrive pedals for achieving different kinds of sounds.

The 6L6 model excels at clean, blues and classic rock. It has a great distortion sound, but doesn't have the midrange honk or high mids people like in a British voiced amp.

The 20th Anniversary with KT88's is a very different sounding amp that's alive and blooms under your fingers. It's wider from low to high, and more balanced in the midrange than EL34's (mid hump) and 6L6's (bit of a mid dip). It has a bit of a hi-fi quality, but still has a great sound for classic rock. It's very expressive so any kind of soloing or shredding really stands out.

The 20th Anniversary with EL34's is basically a 3 channel stock Shiva. It has a lot of gain in modern mode, tone controls that remain active when boost is engaged, and the Excursion control. It would be the choice for people who want a Shiva with more gain.
 
Nick - that video clip sounds really good...great tone.

I have the 20th Anniversary model with KT88's. Overall, I'm very pleased with it but I do have trouble balancing the excursion with the bass control. Too little excursion and the amp is a little piercing. Too much and it's too boomy.

I'm wondering - where should the excursion knob be set to be "neutral" or equivalent to the regular Shiva (which lacks the excursion knob)??

Hopefully my question makes sense.
 
psmith68":2pbfk9o4 said:
Nick - that video clip sounds really good...great tone.

I have the 20th Anniversary model with KT88's. Overall, I'm very pleased with it but I do have trouble balancing the excursion with the bass control. Too little excursion and the amp is a little piercing. Too much and it's too boomy.

I'm wondering - where should the excursion knob be set to be "neutral" or equivalent to the regular Shiva (which lacks the excursion knob)??

Hopefully my question makes sense.

I'm still trying to figure that out! haha.

I'll tell you this - the taper/sweep of the excursion knob doesn't feel that even. Seems to come on very fast at the end of the travel. Makes me think that "noon" may not really be the 50% mark.
 
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