Critique my tone and mix. Engl Fireball content. Need suggestions.

Soundstorm

Soundstorm

Well-known member
Here's a track from an upcoming project I'm releasing. I retracked it using the Fireball 25. So far I'm not really happy with any of the guitar tones I've come up with for this release, and I've used several heads, cabs, speaker combos, mics. My home recording setup is top shelf. I know the mix has some issues here I need to fix. Vocals need a de-esser. I put too much saturation on the drums and it audibly distorts during the busy parts.

But I'm really just wanting to focus on the guitar tone here. What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

 
Besides what you've already mentioned

It's difficult to tell what the guitar tone needs because there's either too much buss compression/"glue", or everything is too loud in the box and needs to be turned down for more dynamic range

But from what I can tell the vocals and individual instruments and everything sound good

It sounds like maybe the guitar was lo-passed too much and is too smoothed out and neutered in post maybe?

You can definitely tell that your setup is top shelf, because it still sounds pretty fucking good.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Besides what you've already mentioned

It's difficult to tell what the guitar tone needs because there's either too much buss compression/"glue", or everything is too loud in the box and needs to be turned down for more dynamic range

But from what I can tell the vocals and individual instruments and everything sound good

It sounds like maybe the guitar was lo-passed too much and is too smoothed out and neutered in post maybe?

You can definitely tell that your setup is top shelf, because it still sounds pretty fucking good.
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Thanks for the input! And good ear. The guitar is low passed to about 8k with a little resonance bump right there, but I also just move the mics over about a half inch because I was getting too much harshness from the seam area of the dust cap. I have a UAD API 2500 on the master bus, needle barely moving. And then I’m hitting Ozone limiter for about 2.5dB there. I could probably re-dial the amp a little brighter now that the mics were moved a bit and back off on the limiter to give everything more space.
 
Soundstorm said:
Thanks for the input! And good ear. The guitar is low passed to about 8k with a little resonance bump right there, but I also just move the mics over about a half inch because I was getting too much harshness from the seam area of the dust cap. I have a UAD API 2500 on the master bus, needle barely moving. And then I’m hitting Ozone limiter for about 2.5dB there. I could probably re-dial the amp a little brighter now that the mics were moved a bit and back off on the limiter to give everything more space.
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That's the first place I would start, absolutely

Once you reposition your mic, you may not need to change where your lopass is after all, or you might even need to get more aggressive with it

That top end sizzle is kind of the defining characteristic of the engl sound, it's just about massaging it into the mix in a way that doesn't hurt your ears but keeps the aggression
 
DanTravis62 said:
That's the first place I would start, absolutely

Once you reposition your mic, you may not need to change where your lopass is after all, or you might even need to get more aggressive with it

That top end sizzle is kind of the defining characteristic of the engl sound, it's just about massaging it into the mix in a way that doesn't hurt your ears but keeps the aggression
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Ok I upped the low pass to about 9.2k, backed off the limiter a lot, and raised the amp gain a bit. Everything seems to be sitting better now but the guitar's a little too undefined. Probably need to back off the gain haha.

 
Soundstorm said:
Ok I upped the low pass to about 9.2k, backed off the limiter a lot, and raised the amp gain a bit. Everything seems to be sitting better now but the guitar's a little too undefined. Probably need to back off the gain haha.

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Ummm, that sounds really, really good bro!!
 
Soundstorm said:
Ok I upped the low pass to about 9.2k, backed off the limiter a lot, and raised the amp gain a bit. Everything seems to be sitting better now but the guitar's a little too undefined. Probably need to back off the gain haha.

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At least to me, that's a big improvement - what I would do in this situation is double the rhythm guitars again, but with a much lower gain sound, where you can clearly hear the transient of each note.

Basically, use the exact same setup, but turn the gain down to where it first barely starts chugging, and then mix that into the sound you already have going.

Then blend that with the current sound to taste.
 
I think the guitars are too low in the mix. They're getting overpowered by the drums and vocals. Maybe needs some mids. Is the mid boost off?

I have a KT77 Fireball 25. I love it. The mid boost makes it really fat. I also fine-tune with an EQ in the loop too.
 
The bass is too pokey for me, I think it needs less 1-1.5k and some more low end, it’s just overpowering the guitars in parts. I’d probably do another guitar track down the middle with way less gain and mids to give everything a little more weight. Certainly dosent sound bad though and I’m nitpicking, but quality stuff like this needs that
 
napalmdeath said:
I think the guitars are too low in the mix. They're getting overpowered by the drums and vocals. Maybe needs some mids. Is the mid boost off?

I have a KT77 Fireball 25. I love it. The mid boost makes it really fat. I also fine-tune with an EQ in the loop too.
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Yeah the mid boost is off. I could try that. I was trying to fight off some of the 1x12 cab honk. I have a nice EQ I could add some in with as well.

Edit: I also have an older MD-421 blended in there I could just raise those, it adds a lot of mids and lower mids to the sound. I’ll have to grab my old GE-7 and throw it in the loop as well.
 
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RaceU4her said:
The bass is too pokey for me, I think it needs less 1-1.5k and some more low end, it’s just overpowering the guitars in parts.
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I think this fixes a ton between the bass and guitar. Maybe focus a tad bit more on the low end balance between kick and bass to make it overall more punchy and not get cloudy during fast parts (disclaimer with that listening on not my monitors and on a stereo). Balance is pretty good here in my opinion. I would not turn guitars up, maybe even down a tiny hair. As guitar players we ALMOST ALWAYS make guitars too loud, especially with that added brightness you just did. Lastly if you can post on Google drive or Dropbox, SoundCloud muddles audio.

Finally I’ll say, Strong work here. Sounds great.
 
Thanks for the input so far guys, I’m gonna work on these suggestions and will probably post a follow up later tonight.
 
Firstly...bangin' song..love the vox too.
I'd agree with RaceU's suggestion....I do like the 2nd mix more...Just my ear-pinion on the overall mix..seems like the drums need some EQ or the guitar level could back off a touch...the drums get pushed back in the mix and lose definition..then when the song gets to full blast everything is kind of fighting for space.
 
I only heard the first one since the second link is broken for me, that said to ask, are you boosting? For a tuning that low the lack of definition in the attack I'm hearing is often something the right boost can fix.
 
GJgo said:
I only heard the first one since the second link is broken for me, that said to ask, are you boosting? For a tuning that low the lack of definition in the attack I'm hearing is often something the right boost can fix.
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Yeah I’ve gone back and forth with boosts. No boost in either recording here. The second recording has some more attack because I’d gotten too aggressive with the high cut, so I adjusted that a bit. I really dig the guitar tones and mix in your sig btw
 
Soundstorm said:
Yeah the mid boost is off. I could try that. I was trying to fight off some of the 1x12 cab honk. I have a nice EQ I could add some in with as well.

Edit: I also have an older MD-421 blended in there I could just raise those, it adds a lot of mids and lower mids to the sound. I’ll have to grab my old GE-7 and throw it in the loop as well.
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I run my mid boost on, and mids pretty much at noon. The channel volume makes a difference as well, and I find noon the sweet spot for it as well. I also put a Tungsol in V1. Stock it's all JJ's, and I find JJ's in V1 are too bland and sterile. In any amp, for that matter, (except an ECC803). The Tungsol helps focus the bass a bit tighter and adds that sizzle the amp likes. I run mine on top of 2 Friedman Vintage 1x12's with Creamback 65's and it's just punishing. Boosting it with the lower output pickups in my SG is insane. The KT77 version I have is really pissed off sounding. I love this amp!
 
Soundstorm said:
Yeah I’ve gone back and forth with boosts. No boost in either recording here. The second recording has some more attack because I’d gotten too aggressive with the high cut, so I adjusted that a bit. I really dig the guitar tones and mix in your sig btw
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I'd give it a shot for comparison in the mix. For example, our album tone in those songs is a Klone boosted IIC+. As tight as Marks are, when the tuning drops they still lose definition in the mix without a boost.
 
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