GuitarGuy08
Well-known member
OP: I ordered some Avatar AV-60 speakers after seeing another post on here about how kick-ass they were. I have some coming in to try in my horizontal and vertical 2x12 cabs.
I thought about mixing it up, but after hearing each one they had to offer, these seemed to be right on the money for my ear. Very excited to hear these in person. I have high hopes...I hope they aren't dashed! Dave at Avatar was really nice to wrok with and they really do give you a great deal for a made in USA speaker. I listened to the sound demos of Hellatone 60s vs the AV60s and it seems that the AV60 does indeed match it's description upon numerous comparisons: "Similar tone to a Celestion Vintage 30, with great mid and upper mid presence to cut through the mix but without the upper mid spike." Time will tell.... and the gear section, as more WGS speakers pop up for sale! Lol
***CLOSED BACK SUMMARIES AND AMP SETUP LISTED BELOW - OPEN BACK SUMMARIES ON Pg.3***
Amp Setup:
All current testing performed on a Rivera Clubster Royale Top 25w 6V6 Amp head. Vintage/NOS RCA Blackplate 12ax7 tubes for inputs. NOS JAN/Vintage RCA 6V6 x 2 in the output section.
The amp basically has 4 channels:
1. Clean 1 - Channel that is akin to a Fender Clean channel but tweaked/modded for less thin, and more body. What you wish a Fender clean channel was, with all the huge headroom.
2. Clean 2 - Fender tweed but tweaked in the ways you'd want, again. More mids than blackface, etc.
3. Crunch - This is like a low gain Marshall. I like to dime the gain all the way on this channel. Doesn't muddy up and takes pedals well. Can really sing.
4. Crunch (Boost engaged) - The Boost changes the channel entirely. This is what I run for all fo my heavier stuff and even my crunch, as you can go from absolutely roaring to rolled back clean and hari. Wild how much gain is on tap here while still remaining clear.
Guitar is going straight to the amp. Nothing in the loop. Onboard reverb disengaged for testing and enagged for sound field/deph testing with effects.
The TL DR of this thread so far. This is an ongoing thread and I will update my findings as they come. I hope to get a mic setup in the future to start doing speaker shootouts in the future. Until then, the thread lives on!
Speaker Summaries:
2x12 closed back Solid Wood Panama Cabinet stood up vertically.
Invader 50 x Invader 50:
This combination is mid city! There is a very extended upper-high-mid or presence to these. The sound is extremely mid oriented, and may leave you wanting just a bit for bass when used on their own. The sound adds almost a layer on top with the high-mid as mentioned. Kind of like there is a pedal that is always on in a way. The drive channel can get extra 'growly' when using these. Extremely woody and organic in every sense. Effects really come out due to the extended top end that is there and mid range grunt. Not an even sound spectrum. Definitely a setup for if you WANT the speaker to really have an affect on the sound. Your amp WILL sound a certain way when you run these that will be hard to replicate elsewhere. Whether you like that or not is up to you.
AV60 x AV60:
I have grown to enjoy the overall sound of Greenback style speakers but gave these a shot and was very pleasantly surprised. . Very similar to tweaking and (in my opinion) perfecting the Vintage 30. I listened to V30s back to back in clips against these and they sound like they are smoother in the high mid section with more bass and body to the overall tone. If you like V30s at all, you'd do well by getting some of these to throw into the mix. I find this speaker is really good when paired with my Marshall. The top end can get that sizzle going on, just like a Vintage 30, but it is more controllable, musical, and usable. Very mid focused overall with a feeling like your foot is on the 'gas pedal' so to speak when you are playing. Extremely tight. A little thin alone for clean sounds but excels at pushed cleans/hair, crunch, and high gain. I prefer these mixed with a GB style speaker overall.
Invader 50 x AV60:
I thought this would turn out better but... I was wrong. These did not pair together well. Too many overlapping mids and high frequencies that are slightly shifted to a different spectrum. May work better in a larger configuration but to much sizzle and high end snap here, not enough bass. Not into this combination at all.
AV75 x AV75 **Excel in an open back cabinet and Fender style amp. Works well in general for Marshall styles amps. Better for Marshall in a Closed back scenario as this.
Tons of top and bottom with a clear mid range as well. Not scooped. As described on the site, basically. The top end is very extended, and you will need to notch down on the treble. That being said, very clear, musical speakers. They present a very dynamic palette but i can see this having a certain sound that may not work well with specific setups/amps. The extended top end on the Blackface can be ear cutting if you want it to be, in a hurry. At the same time, it does not muffle when you roll down the treble, it just sweetens, which is what you want! These speakers are good at mimicing many sounds, in that they present a pretty full sound spectrum and they are very responsive to the tone controls, in the way you would desire. I can see these cutting through in a live mix or recording, very clear, very extended top and bottom. Sounds good with drive and on cleans. A powerful sound. Again, I think these are more amp dependent than most in this setup, as I could see someone getting a thin/scratchy top end very easily with a closed back. Overall, I would not recommend these for a closed back scenario. The extension of the extra bass and top from the closed back in just overwhelming in most cases and will need to be dialed back.
OPEN BACK SNEAK REVIEW: These speakers seem to come to life in an open back situation. You can almost feel them breathing when you use them. A very intense exprreince in a good way. Low lows and soaring highs. Midrange is like that middle ground between to keep you stable. Did not expect this goodness to come about at all. Open back transformed these. They needed that extra mid range provided, which allowed the highs and bass to sweeten up and fill out. Lots of 3D sound here.
Fane M65 x AV75:
The Fane M65 is dang near a 'perfect' speaker to my ear. I thought previously I heard a slight rolled off/nasal thing, but it must have just been something off that day, as the speaker truly is remarkable. That being said, this is about how it mixes with others! The 65 x 75 variant did not compliment one another in this closed back setup. It seems like each one brought out the worse/lesser qualities of the other, as opposed to melding together. Odd, because on paper this would have been thought to be the perfect combination. One has a lot of top and pbottom and the other is more mid focused...nope. Don't work for me here. Maybe can get by with cleans but gain does something undesirable and adds a scratch that is not there when using either speaker on their own. Weird.
AV75 x AV60
Too much top end bite and thinness. The upper mid addition of the AV60 and mids kind of stack on fine enough but there is just too much top end for what I am seeking. Not the worst setup in the world, definitely will make you cut through, but not what I am seeking. One of those that has you 'rolling knobs' as it were. Maybe this could do better with an open back, we will see.
*Fane M65 x AV60* - My Top Choice for closed back currently.
In a closed back configuration, these sound absolutely wonderful. The top end is extended and present/clear, without being overbearing. There is a mid-forward nature to the tone, meaning that the notes focus on the body/mid of the string/note when you are playing as opposed to the bass and treble of it. The notes do not 'clack' and have that hollow or scooped nature to them at all. This gives each note a certain thickness along with clarity. The mids are not muddled in this configuration. The two seem to have very, very complimentary frequencies, that meld together in the way you would want. There is a slight Speaker efficiency difference of less than 1 dB in the favor of the AV60 over the M65. This seems to be a 'catch all' pairing and can be played with multiple instruments while achieving a tightness and fatness and sizzle without any being too much. The AV60s help add that feeling of 'drive' behind the amp. This setup really has you feeling like you are ready to play. I don't know how else to put it. When you turn it on and start to dial it in, you just feel like the amp is saying "Come on, let's go!" the entire time. The AV60s add that upper mid thing that lends it this feeling. I am not sure I can think of an amp that would NOT pair well with this combination. If you are someone who is looking to mix and match speakers to try to achieve a broader, more versatile spectrum, this combination seems to be the ticket. I tried this combination is multiple vertical closed back cabs and it won every time. It seems to bring out the qualities that are beloved of both Greenbacks and Vintage 30s. Some might say these are ingredients for that 'perfect combination.' I could see the rhythm and blues/clean player enjoying this setup equally as well as a rock/metal player.
I would LOVE to try a pair of Fane M65s together but I only own one and past tapped out on cash. This is really about mixing speakers together in a cab anyway, but still!
PLEASE READ:
***I HAVE SOME OPEN BACK REVIEWS AND ONES WHERE A MARSHALL HEAD WAS USED ON PG 3 OF THIS THREAD.***
I thought about mixing it up, but after hearing each one they had to offer, these seemed to be right on the money for my ear. Very excited to hear these in person. I have high hopes...I hope they aren't dashed! Dave at Avatar was really nice to wrok with and they really do give you a great deal for a made in USA speaker. I listened to the sound demos of Hellatone 60s vs the AV60s and it seems that the AV60 does indeed match it's description upon numerous comparisons: "Similar tone to a Celestion Vintage 30, with great mid and upper mid presence to cut through the mix but without the upper mid spike." Time will tell.... and the gear section, as more WGS speakers pop up for sale! Lol
***CLOSED BACK SUMMARIES AND AMP SETUP LISTED BELOW - OPEN BACK SUMMARIES ON Pg.3***
Amp Setup:
All current testing performed on a Rivera Clubster Royale Top 25w 6V6 Amp head. Vintage/NOS RCA Blackplate 12ax7 tubes for inputs. NOS JAN/Vintage RCA 6V6 x 2 in the output section.
The amp basically has 4 channels:
1. Clean 1 - Channel that is akin to a Fender Clean channel but tweaked/modded for less thin, and more body. What you wish a Fender clean channel was, with all the huge headroom.
2. Clean 2 - Fender tweed but tweaked in the ways you'd want, again. More mids than blackface, etc.
3. Crunch - This is like a low gain Marshall. I like to dime the gain all the way on this channel. Doesn't muddy up and takes pedals well. Can really sing.
4. Crunch (Boost engaged) - The Boost changes the channel entirely. This is what I run for all fo my heavier stuff and even my crunch, as you can go from absolutely roaring to rolled back clean and hari. Wild how much gain is on tap here while still remaining clear.
Guitar is going straight to the amp. Nothing in the loop. Onboard reverb disengaged for testing and enagged for sound field/deph testing with effects.
The TL DR of this thread so far. This is an ongoing thread and I will update my findings as they come. I hope to get a mic setup in the future to start doing speaker shootouts in the future. Until then, the thread lives on!
Speaker Summaries:
2x12 closed back Solid Wood Panama Cabinet stood up vertically.
Invader 50 x Invader 50:
This combination is mid city! There is a very extended upper-high-mid or presence to these. The sound is extremely mid oriented, and may leave you wanting just a bit for bass when used on their own. The sound adds almost a layer on top with the high-mid as mentioned. Kind of like there is a pedal that is always on in a way. The drive channel can get extra 'growly' when using these. Extremely woody and organic in every sense. Effects really come out due to the extended top end that is there and mid range grunt. Not an even sound spectrum. Definitely a setup for if you WANT the speaker to really have an affect on the sound. Your amp WILL sound a certain way when you run these that will be hard to replicate elsewhere. Whether you like that or not is up to you.
AV60 x AV60:
I have grown to enjoy the overall sound of Greenback style speakers but gave these a shot and was very pleasantly surprised. . Very similar to tweaking and (in my opinion) perfecting the Vintage 30. I listened to V30s back to back in clips against these and they sound like they are smoother in the high mid section with more bass and body to the overall tone. If you like V30s at all, you'd do well by getting some of these to throw into the mix. I find this speaker is really good when paired with my Marshall. The top end can get that sizzle going on, just like a Vintage 30, but it is more controllable, musical, and usable. Very mid focused overall with a feeling like your foot is on the 'gas pedal' so to speak when you are playing. Extremely tight. A little thin alone for clean sounds but excels at pushed cleans/hair, crunch, and high gain. I prefer these mixed with a GB style speaker overall.
Invader 50 x AV60:
I thought this would turn out better but... I was wrong. These did not pair together well. Too many overlapping mids and high frequencies that are slightly shifted to a different spectrum. May work better in a larger configuration but to much sizzle and high end snap here, not enough bass. Not into this combination at all.
AV75 x AV75 **Excel in an open back cabinet and Fender style amp. Works well in general for Marshall styles amps. Better for Marshall in a Closed back scenario as this.
Tons of top and bottom with a clear mid range as well. Not scooped. As described on the site, basically. The top end is very extended, and you will need to notch down on the treble. That being said, very clear, musical speakers. They present a very dynamic palette but i can see this having a certain sound that may not work well with specific setups/amps. The extended top end on the Blackface can be ear cutting if you want it to be, in a hurry. At the same time, it does not muffle when you roll down the treble, it just sweetens, which is what you want! These speakers are good at mimicing many sounds, in that they present a pretty full sound spectrum and they are very responsive to the tone controls, in the way you would desire. I can see these cutting through in a live mix or recording, very clear, very extended top and bottom. Sounds good with drive and on cleans. A powerful sound. Again, I think these are more amp dependent than most in this setup, as I could see someone getting a thin/scratchy top end very easily with a closed back. Overall, I would not recommend these for a closed back scenario. The extension of the extra bass and top from the closed back in just overwhelming in most cases and will need to be dialed back.
OPEN BACK SNEAK REVIEW: These speakers seem to come to life in an open back situation. You can almost feel them breathing when you use them. A very intense exprreince in a good way. Low lows and soaring highs. Midrange is like that middle ground between to keep you stable. Did not expect this goodness to come about at all. Open back transformed these. They needed that extra mid range provided, which allowed the highs and bass to sweeten up and fill out. Lots of 3D sound here.
Fane M65 x AV75:
The Fane M65 is dang near a 'perfect' speaker to my ear. I thought previously I heard a slight rolled off/nasal thing, but it must have just been something off that day, as the speaker truly is remarkable. That being said, this is about how it mixes with others! The 65 x 75 variant did not compliment one another in this closed back setup. It seems like each one brought out the worse/lesser qualities of the other, as opposed to melding together. Odd, because on paper this would have been thought to be the perfect combination. One has a lot of top and pbottom and the other is more mid focused...nope. Don't work for me here. Maybe can get by with cleans but gain does something undesirable and adds a scratch that is not there when using either speaker on their own. Weird.
AV75 x AV60
Too much top end bite and thinness. The upper mid addition of the AV60 and mids kind of stack on fine enough but there is just too much top end for what I am seeking. Not the worst setup in the world, definitely will make you cut through, but not what I am seeking. One of those that has you 'rolling knobs' as it were. Maybe this could do better with an open back, we will see.
*Fane M65 x AV60* - My Top Choice for closed back currently.
In a closed back configuration, these sound absolutely wonderful. The top end is extended and present/clear, without being overbearing. There is a mid-forward nature to the tone, meaning that the notes focus on the body/mid of the string/note when you are playing as opposed to the bass and treble of it. The notes do not 'clack' and have that hollow or scooped nature to them at all. This gives each note a certain thickness along with clarity. The mids are not muddled in this configuration. The two seem to have very, very complimentary frequencies, that meld together in the way you would want. There is a slight Speaker efficiency difference of less than 1 dB in the favor of the AV60 over the M65. This seems to be a 'catch all' pairing and can be played with multiple instruments while achieving a tightness and fatness and sizzle without any being too much. The AV60s help add that feeling of 'drive' behind the amp. This setup really has you feeling like you are ready to play. I don't know how else to put it. When you turn it on and start to dial it in, you just feel like the amp is saying "Come on, let's go!" the entire time. The AV60s add that upper mid thing that lends it this feeling. I am not sure I can think of an amp that would NOT pair well with this combination. If you are someone who is looking to mix and match speakers to try to achieve a broader, more versatile spectrum, this combination seems to be the ticket. I tried this combination is multiple vertical closed back cabs and it won every time. It seems to bring out the qualities that are beloved of both Greenbacks and Vintage 30s. Some might say these are ingredients for that 'perfect combination.' I could see the rhythm and blues/clean player enjoying this setup equally as well as a rock/metal player.
I would LOVE to try a pair of Fane M65s together but I only own one and past tapped out on cash. This is really about mixing speakers together in a cab anyway, but still!
PLEASE READ:
***I HAVE SOME OPEN BACK REVIEWS AND ONES WHERE A MARSHALL HEAD WAS USED ON PG 3 OF THIS THREAD.***
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