🚨 Shots Fired 🚨

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ben Waylin
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FourT6and2 said:
As you say... they had the gun. Traced gun back to owner (dad, who also called police to self-report). Cross-referenced shooter's DNA with dad's? Shooter also worked for a nursing home, which most likely meant he had fingerprints on file. I'm sure parents had to ID body as well.
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I think the point of the video was missed. If you listen to what the ATF director was saying about the constitutionality of a serial number database.
 
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FourT6and2 said:
Nothing peculiar about it unless you've never shot a rifle off-hand before.

The first shot was his best shot because every shot after that was under stress. He was using an unsupported AR15 with a Red Dot Sight in the (presumably) prone position. RDS is most likely unmagnified and has a 2-3 MOA reticle. That, combined with shooting unsupported, and being under stress = "spray and pray" after the first shot. A small change in POA = a fairly large change in POI. This should be immediately evident to anybody who shoots and understands angular measurements. Heart rate goes up, breathing quickens and shortens, adrenaline pumps... all of that means that RDS was probably dancing all over the place without shooting supported.
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I'm just posting videos that I find interesting, I'm not endorsing everything presented in them, it's all for exploration and discussion. As far as I know there has not been an up close picture released of the murder weapon only far out drone footage where you can kind of make out the outlines of a gun. Some sources say it was a cheap low entry level model and some say it was a $12,000 gun. :dunno:
 
Officers were on the 2nd floor of building with windows facing the roof of the shooters building and did nothing........just waiting for the next excuse

 
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scottosan said:
how is prone position unsupported? It’s the most stable shooting position. Marines are expected to make this shot at 500m prone, with steel sights after a mere 3 days of range training
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Within the context of shooting disciplines, "support" typically refers to the use of a bipod, tripod, front bag, rear bag, a backpack, something to provide support, etc. You can shoot prone and still be unsupported.

My previous point was that Crooks was most likely shoot unsupported. i.e. he was not using a bipod, a tripod, a front shooting rest, a rear bag, or similar. Maybe he used his backpack? There was one up on the roof. But my presumption is that his shots were all over the place because he was either using irons or a RDS and most likely shooting from an "unsupported" position (no bipod, tripod, bags, etc.).

This is why NRA Highpower competitors in the service rifle class use a shooting glove and jacket (just like the one Crooks was wearing in the photo I posted earlier).

1000w_q95.jpg
 
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FourT6and2 said:
Within the context of shooting disciplines, "support" typically refers to the use of a bipod, tripod, front bag, rear bag, a backpack, something to provide support, etc. You can shoot prone and still be unsupported.
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FourT6and2 said:
My previous point was that Crooks was most likely shoot unsupported. i.e. he was not using a bipod, a tripod, a front shooting rest, a rear bag, or similar. Maybe he used his backpack? There was one up on the roof. But my presumption is that his shots were all over the place because he was either using irons or a RDS and most likely shooting from an "unsupported" position (no bipod, tripod, bags, etc.).

This is why NRA Highpower competitors in the service rifle class use a shooting glove and jacket (just like the one Crooks was wearing in the photo I posted earlier).

1000w_q95.jpg
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Competition isn’t real world, and unlike the army guy in the picture, the Marines are taught the proper use of a sling. It’s used for shooting stability not just to carry a weapon. As for high power, yes, use a tripod, but a AR, that’s like training wheels. With no exaggeration, a boot camp marine makes this shot 95 percent of the time after 3 days of range time. With iron sites. Nobody trained this guy.
 
scottosan said:
Competition isn’t real world, and unlike the army guy in the picture, the Marines are taught the proper use of a sling. It’s used for shooting stability not just to carry a weapon. As for high power, yes, use a tripod, but a AR, that’s like training wheels. With no exaggeration, a boot camp marine makes this shot 95 percent of the time after 3 days of range time. With iron sites. Nobody trained this guy.
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Yes, a sling is commonly used in various competitions as well, Scott. NRA Highpower is shot with the AR15 and sling. No tripods or bipods or other support. Support "training wheels" as you say are not allowed.

You and I are AGREEING. Crooks was a shit shot. And yes, I also agree... 95% of most shooters, both recreational and military, can make this shot just fine. We are saying the same thing. btw, I do not shoot NRA Highpower. So I'm not trying to defend that specific discipline or anything. I think we are talking past each other because I don't really know what you're trying to argue.

Furthermore, bipods are pretty common in the military. So you might want to rethink the training wheels comment. Did you see the Counter Sniper teams at the rally? They were using carbon fiber tripods from Really Right Stuff. I guess using a Kestrel or Vectronix is "training wheels" too? And yet, 100% of actual mil. designated marksmen were using those at one point...

Again... my previous point was that Crooks was shooting from the prone, without "support" (bipod, bag, tripod, shooting rest, backpack... whatever), using either irons or RDS. And this was all in response to a video someone posted where they said Crooks' shot placement was somehow indicative that there was a second shooter or something to that effect. I was simply refuting that.
 
FourT6and2 said:
Yes, a sling is commonly used in various competitions as well, Scott. NRA Highpower is shot with the AR15 and sling. No tripods or bipods or other support. Support "training wheels" as you say are not allowed.

You and I are AGREEING. Crooks was a shit shot. And yes, I also agree... 95% of most shooters, both recreational and military, can make this shot just fine. We are saying the same thing. btw, I do not shoot NRA Highpower. So I'm not trying to defend that specific discipline or anything. I think we are talking past each other because I don't really know what you're trying to argue.

Furthermore, bipods are pretty common in the military. So you might want to rethink the training wheels comment. Did you see the Counter Sniper teams at the rally? They were using carbon fiber tripods from Really Right Stuff. I guess using a Kestrel or Vectronix is "training wheels" too? And yet, 100% of actual mil. designated marksmen were using those at one point...

Again... my previous point was that Crooks was shooting from the prone, without "support" (bipod, bag, tripod, shooting rest, backpack... whatever), using either irons or RDS. And this was all in response to a video someone posted where they said Crooks' shot placement was somehow indicative that there was a second shooter or something to that effect. I was simply refuting that.
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I think it’s just me getting caught up on the “unsupported”. If the dude took a shot with no sling and just resting the weapons on the magazine or rooftop would explain why subsequent shots were all over the place whereas a disciplined shooter would have had a natural body position putting the sights back to target. So, if he did this unsupported, there’s no way in hell he was trained by any serious outside entity
 
Honest question here…. If the shooter was prone with his rifle under him, how does the rifle end up 5 feet to his left?

 
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