John Sykes Isolated Guitar Only - Still of the Night - Whitesnake

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BlueParfait said:
Well f**** me. That's a lot less gain than I thought

My fav on that album's gotta be Crying In The Rain and Here I Go Again, though

A lot of people found it jarring, but the switch from Sykes' big tight rhythm to Adrian's looser lead playing was perfect for me.

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Wow, so many more small intricacies and bits he added in the rythm than I hear when I listen to the entire tune. Also, the lead tone sounds so anemic and like shit on it's own but it works amazingly in the mix. Something to keep in mind when we obsess about individual sources in mixes without hearing them with the other instruments.
 
Tone Monster said:
Maybe just a light dusting on the guitar bus? Quad tracking already gives off that chorus-y vibe…
I’ve got the UA AMS plug in. It’s nice.
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it could be, im not too seasoned on chorus or how they did it in the 80s but a light dusting sounds like all it is. ive had a splitting migraine last couple days, once it goes away ill give it a whirl. i have a few chorus pedals here ive barely played, this will give me a reason lol
 
See that is why those songs sound so good even today. They are not perfected to death and have noise, etc. I swear that has to be why some of this heavier music doesn't sound right to me. Everything is just too smooth and timed too good.
 
romanianreaper said:
See that is why those songs sound so good even today. They are not perfected to death and have noise, etc. I swear that has to be why some of this heavier music doesn't sound right to me. Everything is just too smooth and timed too good.
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You are correct. What we are all experiencing now, is ear fatigue. Everything is too perfect and too loud. In these old recordings you hear the crackling, the noise, the bleed, the timing isn't snapped to grid. It's amazing. Makes things sound original. Now you hear everything cut when the instrument is not making a sound. Then it is replaced with a sample. It's brutal. Music sucks now mainly because of how music is produced and edited imo.
 
John was simply amazing. I wish he would have been in a position to record more, but the deck always seemed stacked against him.
 
Kapo_Polenton said:
You are correct. What we are all experiencing now, is ear fatigue. Everything is too perfect and too loud. In these old recordings you hear the crackling, the noise, the bleed, the timing isn't snapped to grid. It's amazing. Makes things sound original. Now you hear everything cut when the instrument is not making a sound. Then it is replaced with a sample. It's brutal. Music sucks now mainly because of how music is produced and edited imo.
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I love hearing the slightly noisy imperfections in between the stop start sections of the main riff in this song. No noise gates or girly hairbands needed for Mr. Sykes! The extraneous noises wash out in the mix most of the time anyway.
 
Kapo_Polenton said:
You are correct. What we are all experiencing now, is ear fatigue. Everything is too perfect and too loud. In these old recordings you hear the crackling, the noise, the bleed, the timing isn't snapped to grid. It's amazing. Makes things sound original. Now you hear everything cut when the instrument is not making a sound. Then it is replaced with a sample. It's brutal. Music sucks now mainly because of how music is produced and edited imo.
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This ^^^

That's why I like some more raw metal sometimes....like the new Wormwitch. Drums sound like they threw mics on them and that's it...no post production.
 
Let’s be real for a minute though.. most of all of these 80s albums are as super produced as anything else. Maybe they didn’t “grid” the drums per se, but to me splicing together the best parts of 25 takes while adding samples on top isn’t much different other than it takes much longer to do. Lars drums sound totally natural till you learn they couldn’t edit any more cause the tape wouldn’t go through the machine. I’m sure the guitars were running through all sorts of outboard eq’s, compressors, reverbs and whatever else that many here would call “doctoring” if we used the same things on a clip.
 
RaceU4her said:
Let’s be real for a minute though.. most of all of these 80s albums are as super produced as anything else. Maybe they didn’t “grid” the drums per se, but to me splicing together the best parts of 25 takes while adding samples on top isn’t much different other than it takes much longer to do. Lars drums sound totally natural till you learn they couldn’t edit any more cause the tape wouldn’t go through the machine. I’m sure the guitars were running through all sorts of outboard eq’s, compressors, reverbs and whatever else that many here would call “doctoring” if we used the same things on a clip.
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Except in Sykes case. Sure, there's tons of other examples of recordings done like you describe, but not in this particular case. One take, done.
That's what monster players do...perfect every time.
 
RaceU4her said:
Let’s be real for a minute though.. most of all of these 80s albums are as super produced as anything else. Maybe they didn’t “grid” the drums per se, but to me splicing together the best parts of 25 takes while adding samples on top isn’t much different other than it takes much longer to do. Lars drums sound totally natural till you learn they couldn’t edit any more cause the tape wouldn’t go through the machine. I’m sure the guitars were running through all sorts of outboard eq’s, compressors, reverbs and whatever else that many here would call “doctoring” if we used the same things on a clip.
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Yes and no. They were produced but within the limits of the technology available to them. Yes they cut and paste splices of best takes but they had to be careful how they did that because they couldn't introduce a sample on a drumkit without taking into consideration the session and the sound of the kit in that particular session. Yes lots of guys (EVH too) spliced together solos or they would put together the best bars and make one tune out of it but they couldn't snap to grid so you'd still have a very alive performance.

Now think of outboard gear. They didn't have endless plugs to choose from, they had what they had studio to studio. A lot of studios that cut our fave albums weren't Abbey Road or anything, they were small places with a rack of outboard and a Trident or other "cheaper" console for the time. Then, you also had the producers themselves who just went for different sounds or went with the sounds the artist liked. That's why there are some absolute dog shit sounding albums in the 80's. Songs may be good, but production is meh.. Faster Pussy Cat for example.. they always had this " in the room" boxy mids sound going. Not sure if that was by design but i listen now and me sitting in my bedroom, I'd tighten those mixes right up.

The difference is, yes there is some production ( even snare samples mixed in - Motley Crue Wild Side for example) but there are so many variables from a session that are different in the 80's compared to now when everyone uses the same libraries. They also use vocal assist/auto tune and the dreaded snap to grid which makes everything void of any energy. There are simply too many components in common session to session now. Producers on you tube who don't go for their sound, but "the" industry accepted sound. I'd argue YT has probably done a disservice to the art of mixing in the sense that nobody has a style anymore. They don't try things because they follow formulas. They are afraid that it will sound too raw or unprofessional. This is in part due to the rise of the DAW and plugin software. The guitars used to sound so different album to album.. now, same eq curve everywhere. Same fat thuddy snare drum. Country, metal, pop? That snare is always virtually the same.

I think we are reaching the end of this type of recording though.. we will see a swing back to real performances and real art within the next 10 years because that authenticity is what people will start to feel is missing. If we don't, at this point we can just have AI do everything and then send a band on tour to play the music. Essentially metal boy bands.
 
Listen to these drums.. might be spliced but def in sections because I'd argue he's smearing a lot of his doubles and triplets. I am guessing the grid in Pro Tools or SD3 wouldn't be happy with the alignment on parts of this one. In the mix though? Brilliant, who cares! It sounds like a human and has a snare that stings you like a wasp.

 
Kapo_Polenton said:
Now think of outboard gear. They didn't have endless plugs to choose from, they had what they had studio to studio. A lot of studios that cut our fave albums weren't Abbey Road or anything, they were small places with a rack of outboard and a Trident or other "cheaper" console for the time.
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i dont know of any major label albums in the 80s with massive budgets being recorded in bootleg studios?? Bob Rocks little mountain was a massive studio, as was Rumbo, Sunset sound, One on One and all the others in LA alone. if the studio didnt have the gear, they would have just rented whatever they needed anyway.

Racerxrated said:
Except in Sykes case. Sure, there's tons of other examples of recordings done like you describe, but not in this particular case. One take, done.
That's what monster players do...perfect every time.
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im talking about the amount of "processing" being done, if he did play everything one take thats cool, but they still had to call bob rock in to work his magic to get the tones, and from watching him thats tons of mics, multiple amps, effects, eq and more eq... you always say clips dont matter because of all the processing, im just saying we cant act like there was no kind of processing going on here or any of the other big records
 
RaceU4her said:
i dont know of any major label albums in the 80s with massive budgets being recorded in bootleg studios?? Bob Rocks little mountain was a massive studio, as was Rumbo, Sunset sound, One on One and all the others in LA alone. if the studio didnt have the gear, they would have just rented whatever they needed anyway.



im talking about the amount of "processing" being done, if he did play everything one take thats cool, but they still had to call bob rock in to work his magic to get the tones, and from watching him thats tons of mics, multiple amps, effects, eq and more eq... you always say clips dont matter because of all the processing, im just saying we cant act like there was no kind of processing going on here or any of the other big records
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If you check out Full In Bloom's channel on YT, he speaks with a lot of sound engineers and producers from the 80's. We aren't talking bob Rock on your first or second album for a lot of these guys. We are talking here is 50K - 100K as your advance and you need to cut an album in 1-2 months ready for print. I think you are confusing the big ticket names with the first few albums of a band where they have a good sized budget by today's standard, but that it really just got them a studio with isolated mixing room and an area they could play. They also would be charged ridiculous amounts to rent amps and other things so they'd blow through their cash quick. they could'nt all afford little mountain studio etc..

Also, the guys now, are recording in small to medium sized studios ( known or not) that have really really good gear. Yet to speed things up, all the work is being run through samples and plugins and other so that they don't impart any of the sound/room characteristics of the places they were recorded. I think that is what I am getting at. That's sad.

I'm also arguing from a processing stand point that most did not have Bob Rock. They had a bunch of guys just cutting their teeth or less well known turning knobs and working with what they had. They didn't have Bob Rock's EZ MIX Pack I and II or use CLA's suite of modelled plugins. They used a piece of shit Dolby comp ( which i think sounds great) on kick and dialed it in to their room and on their instruments and then used the EQ on their console because the studio they were in didn't have Pultecs.

There is no comparison. Everything is the same now because its all following the same sonic formula for the most part. At least to my ears.
 
Listen to Mick's guitar track.. is anyone recording guitars that sound thin in spots or under gained anymore? Nope. Again this is the uniqueness session to session where trial and error they are coming up with ideas:

 
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