Psvane 12AX7 Classic (Red Label). Who's tried 'em?

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Zado

Zado

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Tubes related discussions are getting quite popular right? Ok guys, experience with these? For what I have gathered the PSVANE tubes
are chinese made in a different facility than Shuguang. Different series, many of which are quite expensive and aimed for HIFI purposes,
while the Classic/Red Logo series are suited for guitar players. Anyone tried em?

Description from a dealer:

"In subjective comparison to other preamp tubes from Chinese production, the Psvane preamtubes do sound smoother and less aggressive, which may be due to the somewhat recessed top end. Bass is tight but not obtrusive, even at high overdrive.
The tubes in our test all exhibited very low noise floor and low microphonics.
In the measured values (emission measurement, statically measured), the tested tubes were quite close to the ideal value (e.g. 1.2 mA for 12AX7) and thus belong to the preamp tubes from current production with a relatively high emission. This is of minor importance if the tube is used for voltage amplification (which is certainly the case in 99% of the cases), but there are always customers who prefer preamp tubes with high emission values. The Psvane tubes are likely to appeal in this respec!"


psvecc83.png
 
Psvane makes cheap shit, for the most part. They're equivalent to generic junky Shuguang, ($8 a tube kinda junk), as the company was founded by ex-Shuguang employees, including chief designers and R&D people.

Its my understanding that those people were involved in the development of Shuguang's higher end tubes, but were getting screwed on the profits. Supposedly, theres some higher end tubes that were to be in production in 2020, but with Covid and all, I've not really seen anything. Plus, Shuguang was actually producing some of Psvane's tubes, (confusing, yes), and of course they shut down..

Again, supposedly, Psvane has their own tooling. However, I'm not sure if those higher end tubes were even for amps, maybe just hifi equipment.
 
napalmdeath said:
Psvane makes cheap shit, for the most part. They're equivalent to generic junky Shuguang, ($8 a tube kinda junk), as the company was founded by ex-Shuguang employees, including chief designers and R&D people.

Its my understanding that those people were involved in the development of Shuguang's higher end tubes, but were getting screwed on the profits. Supposedly, theres some higher end tubes that were to be in production in 2020, but with Covid and all, I've not really seen anything. Plus, Shuguang was actually producing some of Psvane's tubes, (confusing, yes), and of course they shut down..

Again, supposedly, Psvane has their own tooling. However, I'm not sure if those higher end tubes were even for amps, maybe just hifi equipment.
Click to expand...

Mmm that's a let down. I've seen some quite pricey series from them (like you said HIFI stuff mainly), and was expecting those made for guitar amps to be at least decent. The price is also kinda tempting, less than 20€ for a 12ax7 is a cool price. I've hear the EL34s they offer are at least good tho...
 
Interesting. The red base 6L6's were in the Fireball 25 I had. They sounded great!

Sounds like Penisvane actually did get some decent tubes into production after all!
 
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When the red base tads came out a while back it was really hard to tell who was making them. I assumed they had new sensor making them, but I didn’t really know about psvane. Anyway the reviews on tgp about the red bass tads have been pretty good. Really like TAD branded tubes in general and TAD is know for having their own designs made.
 
Bumping this thread, hopefully someone can chime in who’s actually used them, I’m interested too.
 
They are good for the money, They seem really close to the specs of the Nesstone 12ax7s I bought recently. I have been to busy to side by side inspect them.
 
napalmdeath said:
Interesting. The red base 6L6's were in the Fireball 25 I had. They sounded great!

Sounds like Penisvane actually did get some decent tubes into production after all!
Click to expand...
I've read mostly positive comments on these, so mine must have come from crappy batches. To be fair, faulty tubes slip thru, and sometimes they just inadvertently fail. Doesn't matter who makes them. Shit happens.

They did sound good before they failed.

Still hoping the Western Electric thing happens with popular guitar amp tubes. Not counting on it though.

Bizzarro world has put a crimp on cheap tubes for a while. I used to have a lot of fun rolling preamp and power tubes when they where cheaper. Now I'm just glad I slowly collected a lot of tubes. You can collect a lot in 40yrs. No way in hell I'll use all of what I have.

It will be a good estate sale for someone.
 
tlp1234 said:
I've read mostly positive comments on these, so mine must have come from crappy batches. To be fair, faulty tubes slip thru, and sometimes they just inadvertently fail. Doesn't matter who makes them. Shit happens.

They did sound good before they failed.

Still hoping the Western Electric thing happens with popular guitar amp tubes. Not counting on it though.

Bizzarro world has put a crimp on cheap tubes for a while. I used to have a lot of fun rolling preamp and power tubes when they where cheaper. Now I'm just glad I slowly collected a lot of tubes. You can collect a lot in 40yrs. No way in hell I'll use all of what I have.

It will be a good estate sale for someone.
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I have a buddy who had to qualify them for Hughes and Kettner. They put them in a tester that test under hv and hits on the tubes simultaneously. According to him they had about a 50% fail rate. He attributes it to the distance from the anode and the grid being smaller than a JJ for example. He said this causing arcing under mechanical stress. He did say it they sound good

TAD has invested in them and are fine tuning their equipment and processes so they will improve IF they haven't already.
 
ClintN667 said:
I have a buddy who had to qualify them for Hughes and Kettner. They put them in a tester that test under hv and hits on the tubes simultaneously. According to him they had about a 50% fail rate. He attributes it to the distance from the anode and the grid being smaller than a JJ for example. He said this causing arcing under mechanical stress. He did say it they sound good

TAD has invested in them and are fine tuning their equipment and processes so they will improve IF they haven't already.
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Interesting........earlier in the year, I went thru 3 quads of them. I was super curious about them after everything I'd read. Two quads came from The Tube Depot, and one quad from Antique Electronics Supply/Tubes and more.

I had problems from heater failure in a couple, to rattles and frittering/sputters when they were fully juiced on start up. Sometimes the noise settled, sometimes worse.

All ended up unusable. But when they were quiet and stable, they sounded decent. The amps ranged from healthy and well maintained Super and Twin Reverbs from 1968, to my Mesa MKI & MKIV.

I'm looking forward to trying them again when and if all this supply chain madness ever settles down.
 
ClintN667 said:
TAD has invested in them and are fine tuning their equipment and processes so they will improve IF they haven't already.
Click to expand...
All resellers I dealt with on these accepted my returns and refunded me, no questions asked. 30 days was long enough. I thought about keeping some of them, but within the *no-hassle-return-period* all became unusable.

Only Antique Electronics Supply commented saying they wish TAD would explain how they were testing these. They had been getting lots of returns and were considering dropping them until things were sorted out.

Even though some like to hate on them, I've found Mesa branded tubes the most consistent and reliable over the years. Of course they get theirs from the same mfr's everyone else does. I have no idea because I don't work there, but there testing methods apparently work well enough. In all the years I've been buying Mesa branded tubes for my Mesas, I've only had a few fail shortly after purchase.

Plus, my list of resellers continues to shrink. I just don't make time, nor do I have much patience for the crowing experts drunk on their own hubris and scams.

I had modded my MKIV and MKI for adjustable bias so I could try different resellers tubes, but over the years I decided all that more trouble than it's worth. I put them both back stock about 10yrs ago. I'm getting old and lazy. Even though I can work on my gear just fine, I'm getting to where I hate even taking the chassis out of an amp. Technically, most maintenance (power tube rebias, capacitor replacements, replacing most small components, etc...troubleshooting...etc) is not difficult. I just find no joy doing it anymore. I'll only do it now if I know I can save a wad of $$$.

I do admire those that have made a reputable business out of amp mods, repairs and general maintenance. The list of good ones grows smaller over time. It's really a thankless job, and I won't suffer all the dumbasses and cheap bastards one has to deal with.

No thanks, I'd rather herd cats.

When I can afford it, I'll just pay someone else provided it's someone I trust. There are so many hacks out there. Rather than them admitting they don't know something, they just pull something out of their ass and take your money. Maybe they fix the problem, maybe not, and maybe they hack your amp up in the process but still expect to be paid for it.

They may not sound "sublime" to people that supposedly can "hear the difference", but I put nothing else in my vintage MK's. I still have some of those grand Mesa branded STR 415 Phillips/Sylvania 6L6's left over from 1980's. I remember buying back then and not ever imagining them ceasing to be mfr'd. They are still in the original packaging. I'm really glad I held onto all 20 of them. I've slowly rotated them all thru the years.

Being the old miser I am, I hoard them along with 15 of the STR 454 Winged C 6L6's.

I'm getting old, and hoarding these is stupid.

Next time I feel like dealing with it, I'm going to try some in my MKV. I've got some in my MKIV. They are very, very strong and clear compared to the what looks like Chinese STR 440's that came new in my MKV. I tried a set of current 440's in the MKIV, and they sounded okay, but a bit too smokey and subdued for my taste. Reminds me of a giant 6V6 if that makes any sense. I could use them if I had too.

Speaking of the MKV (and most Mesa's newer than 1990) I hate that stupid, cheap, gay looking guard they put up around power tubes with the flimsy cheap ass clips. I took that garbage off the first day along with those cheap ass base retainers with the claws, and replaced them with the spring tensioned retainers.

I still have high hopes for Western Electric making their 6L6 own version, but not counting on it. I really think the recent supply scare on tubes was artificial. At least a little.
 
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tlp1234 said:
All resellers I dealt with on these accepted my returns and refunded me, no questions asked. 30 days was long enough. I thought about keeping some of them, but within the *no-hassle-return-period* all became unusable.

Only Antique Electronics Supply commented saying they wish TAD would explain how they were testing these. They had been getting lots of returns and were considering dropping them until things were sorted out.

Even though some like to hate on them, I've found Mesa branded tubes the most consistent and reliable over the years. Of course they get theirs from the same mfr's everyone else does. I have no idea because I don't work there, but there testing methods apparently work well enough. In all the years I've been buying Mesa branded tubes for my Mesas, I've only had a few fail shortly after purchase.

Plus, my list of resellers continues to shrink. I just don't make time, nor do I have much patience for the crowing experts drunk on their own hubris and scams.

I had modded my MKIV and MKI for adjustable bias so I could try different resellers tubes, but over the years I decided all that more trouble than it's worth. I put them both back stock about 10yrs ago. I'm getting old and lazy. Even though I can work on my gear just fine, I'm getting to where I hate even taking the chassis out of an amp. Technically, most maintenance (power tube rebias, capacitor replacements, replacing most small components, etc...troubleshooting...etc) is not difficult. I just find no joy doing it anymore. I'll only do it now if I know I can save a wad of $$$.

I do admire those that have made a reputable business out of amp mods, repairs and general maintenance. The list of good ones grows smaller over time. It's really a thankless job, and I won't suffer all the dumbasses and cheap bastards one has to deal with.

No thanks, I'd rather herd cats.

When I can afford it, I'll just pay someone else provided it's someone I trust. There are so many hacks out there. Rather than them admitting they don't know something, they just pull something out of their ass and take your money. Maybe they fix the problem, maybe not, and maybe they hack your amp up in the process but still expect to be paid for it.

They may not sound "sublime" to people that supposedly can "hear the difference", but I put nothing else in my vintage MK's. I still have some of those grand Mesa branded STR 415 Phillips/Sylvania 6L6's left over from 1980's. I remember buying back then and not ever imagining them ceasing to be mfr'd. They are still in the original packaging. I'm really glad I held onto all 20 of them. I've slowly rotated them all thru the years.

Being the old miser I am, I hoard them along with 15 of the STR 454 Winged C 6L6's.

I'm getting old, and hoarding these is stupid.

Next time I feel like dealing with it, I'm going to try some in my MKV. I've got some in my MKIV. They are very, very strong and clear compared to the what looks like Chinese STR 440's that came new in my MKV. I tried a set of current 440's in the MKIV, and they sounded okay, but a bit too smokey and subdued for my taste. Reminds me of a giant 6V6 if that makes any sense. I could use them if I had too.

Speaking of the MKV (and most Mesa's newer than 1990) I hate that stupid, cheap, gay looking guard they put up around power tubes with the flimsy cheap ass clips. I took that garbage off the first day along with those cheap ass base retainers with the claws, and replaced them with the spring tensioned retainers.

I still have high hopes for Western Electric making their 6L6 own version, but not counting on it. I really think the recent supply scare on tubes was artificial. At least a little.
Click to expand...
Did you find the inner tubes on your mark IV were biased ice cold?

I have a bias pot on my Mark IVA and honestly it didn't really make a significant difference in tone to my ears, but I was really surprised how cold the inner tubes were biased.

And hopefully TAD gets those tubes from PSVane sorted out and of some decent quality.
 
blackba said:
Did you find the inner tubes on your mark IV were biased ice cold?

I have a bias pot on my Mark IVA and honestly it didn't really make a significant difference in tone to my ears, but I was really surprised how cold the inner tubes were biased.

And hopefully TAD gets those tubes from PSVane sorted out and of some decent quality.
Click to expand...
They were @ 65 to 70% plate diss/W with Mesa's tubes. It's been 10 years and don't recall the actual mA plate current. I do recall to satisfy my own curiosity I ran a 1000HZ thru the amp into a static 8ohm load (huge precision wire wound resistor not speaker) and crossover no crossover distortion on scope. I personally feel (for me and my tube amps) that the actual best test is how it sounds, as I'm familiar with what that type distortion sounds like.

Too cold, they sound like shit, too hot, they can get mushy plus the tubes don't last as long.

After that, I just go by what I like to hear. If it doesn't sound right, then I check plate current to see where I'm at. On the other extreme, I don't care for the sound of my MKIV or MKI above 75-80%. W/diss on the output tubes. Plenty of people will tell me I'm full of shit and no way I can hear that. I don't care what the "experts" say. I hear it. It's subtle, but I can hear the mush with too much plate current. Anyone who says otherwise, well I don't care. For any amp, I go for the absolute minimum plate current flowing thru the output tubes that will still give me the sound I want.

People run around in circles for days arguing over this silly assed pedantic, petulant bullshit. I don't waste my energy. I know just enough to get what I want out of my gear, and that's good enough for me.

I've chosen 70% as my favorite place as for me (w/my Mesa MK's) it's a compromise between longer output tube life, and what I like to hear out of the amp. Offshore tubes have always been a crap shoot in my world. The old tubes made before the age of "vacuum mfr'ng tube attrition" would take more abuse and keep ticking longer than the junk available today. Anyone that's been working on audio hollowstate stuff since at least the 1980's and earlier generally knows this.

This is not as binary as some believe. I like black and white too, but that is not always the case.

The other thing is that I don't trust the performance data the current mfr's use. Not totally any way.

Lots more power tubes fail prematurely than people realize because they are biased too hot.

I'm NOT a professed "tube amp guru". But I know what works for me and I don't get bogged down too far in the weeds with all this pedantic bullshit......usually.

I do feel for those that don't have at least a rudimentary understanding of this stuff.

A little knowledge can be worse than none. I know my limitations and content with what I have/can do.
 
So any news about these after a couple of years? Are these fine? Decent? Trash?
 
Only tried a few of the preamp tubes and I thought they were awful. Either low gain or microphonic, not balanced triodes worth a shit. But that’s just 2 I bought and one I got in an amp purchase.
 
Had a batch of them that came in my Runt 50. Low output compared to typical run of the mill preamp tubes and could not replace them quick enough. Hoping my experience was an outlier but haven't cared to try them again.
 
The couple of Psvane tubes I tried I did not care for the sound of at all and immediately removed them from my amp.
 
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