Speeddemon
Well-known member
Thing is, some amp builders may have an agenda to promote themselves (and they think slagging on Randall helps), whereas some randos on Wikipedia are less likely to have a similar agenda.
Eazy-ESP
Well-known member
What’s the source or evidence for this claim? The Eddie being pissed that he had to pay Soldano so he went to Peavey and had them rip him off part.
ChuggNorris
Well-known member
Bruce isn't the type. Very reserved builder.
Never been one to hog any glory.
In fact he rarely says anything.
Probably just had enough of the cork sniffery.
Meanwhile Wikipedia is full of absolute bullshit across the board. For many things. And its by no means a standard for accurate information anymore. Don't think it ever was... ?
ChuggNorris
Well-known member
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower
Well-known member
All of the amp drama is too much for me to keep up with.
I don't know who the bad guys are supposed to be half the time.
Is it okay to own a Perpetuum Ebner record player or a Fortin amp or not?
I don't know who the bad guys are supposed to be half the time.
Is it okay to own a Perpetuum Ebner record player or a Fortin amp or not?
Ben Waylin
Banned
Well-known member
Leo Fender stole everything from the RCA radio handbook.
It all went down hill from there.
?️
Smash
Hack
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower
Well-known member
Better him than the Russians.
K
Kelly
Well-known member
I shouldn't have to do the research, you made the claim. Maybe you should have done your own research. Anyhoo, I went ahead and downloaded the original 1937 RCA tube book. None of those schematics are anywhere close to a tweed Fender amp.
BlueParfait
Well-known member
I always wondered why Bruce and others made such an issue about this when literally everybody copies something from someone else. Like, you can't attack Randall, but stay silent about James Brown when he did the exact same thing with the 5150.
But I guess that thing about patents was the real reason why. Most other people who "rip off" circuits don't seem to to be as protective of their "intellectual property" as Mesa is
But I guess that thing about patents was the real reason why. Most other people who "rip off" circuits don't seem to to be as protective of their "intellectual property" as Mesa is
Dale B
Well-known member
The preamp is not that different from a Rev C Dual Rectifier. The controls act pretty much the same in the Modern Red mode and an SLO. The power sections are different.
stephen sawall
Well-known member
My friend Tom gave Ed a black eye. Jerry Cantrell was there. Apparently Ed said something Tom didn't like.
BackCrack
Well-known member
YouTube
Tone Talk
Ep. 19
2:17:10 - 2:24:52
Tone Talk
Ep. 19
2:17:10 - 2:24:52
RaceU4her
Well-known member
i want to know what he said lol. there was a snippet on youtube of guys talking about eddie being a dick i remember watching that i cant seem to find now, those stories are much more interesting to me than what parts were in his amp
rsm
Well-known member
RCA --> Fender (bassman) --> Marshall
Univox (organ amp) ---> Vox
everything else is derivative.
Univox (organ amp) ---> Vox
everything else is derivative.
NewWorldMan
Well-known member
I’ll say this and leave it be - longer post, so scroll on by if you don’t want to read, haha.
<rant>
Every guitarist is much better off because builders over the decades have borrowed, copied, been inspired by, etc…other designs. Do they all sound the same? No, and that’s what matters.
Too many guys look at designs on paper, read a schematic, and subsequently listen with their eyes instead of their ears. Did the Marshall sound like a Fender? No. Does the Recto sound like an SLO? No. Does a 5150 sound like either of them? No. There’s a lot more that goes into how a final product sounds than what you see on paper, but that’s all some people want to focus on because people love to be offended online.
Some builders and manufacturers - like Randall Smith and Mesa - had much more business acumen, put out a variety of products, listened to what players wanted, and changed with the times. It’s why they had tremendous success while others had modest success by comparison.
Let’s look at Soldano for example since it’s everyone’s favorite talking point. Soldano dropped the SLO and within a few years of its release was charging around $3200 by the early ‘90s with a (not good) loop and line out. That’s $7200-$7400 current day money. He also released the X88 preamp, a concept that Soldano got from Bob Bradshaw. We don’t talk about that though. Bob approached Soldano with the preamp concept (not circuit), had them build them, then Soldano had a successful product that was essentially Bob’s idea. Meanwhile Soldano sold them to Bob for just a hair under retail, so Bob made no money on them despite bringing the concept to Soldano. But, that’s apparently cool. Anyway.
The Dual Rectifier comes out priced around $1200 compared to the $3200 of the SLO. It was originally targeting the Sunset strip crowd, but Mesa saw times were changing and listened to player feedback. Within around 1.5 years of release, Mesa had already went through 5 revisions because it’s what players wanted. Meanwhile, the Soldano remained unchanged.
The Rectifier was arguably the most successful and iconic amp of its time. It owned the airwaves in the ‘90s and early ‘00s. Mesa still evolved the line and the 3 channel version was born, which also went through 4 revisions in the first couple of years. Meanwhile, 15+ years later, the Soldano remained unchanged. They also had virtually nothing that wasn’t a spin off or variation of the SLO.
By 2010, Mesa evolved the Rectifier *again* based on player feedback. Countless options added, revisions made, etc. Meanwhile, nearly 24 years later, the Soldano remained unchanged.
By the time Soldano was sold, it was 32+ years since the release of the SLO. The Recto was on its 14th-15th revision and its 3rd major iteration and adapted to countless changes in the musical landscape. The SLO hadn’t changed at all, but still cost more than double what the Recto did. What else did Soldano do that was significant during those 30 years? Not much. The amp and circuit stubbornly was kept the same despite user tastes changing numerous times, and in Soup Nazi fashion, you either liked it as-is or moved on. The more years that passed, the less value and options you got for the money as other amps advanced.
While I’m glad Soldano had that 1 cool idea 35+ years ago, that doesn’t breed long-term success or mean you have business savvy. If you refuse to change, adapt to player feedback, or even try to expand your product line beyond - basically - cheaper variations of your 1 amp idea, then what should you expect? You saw the success others were having. You saw the changes in the music landscape. You had literal decades to do R&D and make other amps. Don’t bitch and complain because companies like Mesa continued to evolve and listen to players, expanded their product portfolio, and sold countless amps for it.
Complaints about Mesa having success vs Soldano because an amp has a similar preamp section but sounds completely different would be like Marshall complaining about all the British style manufacturers, or Vox complaining about Matchless in the ‘90s, or Fender complaining about Marshall, or etc. If you don’t like it, then stop bitching and whining and make an affordable product that appeals to a wider user base. If you want to stubbornly keep your product the same, then you’ll forever be a niche product for a niche crowd.
This isn’t a knock to Soldano. I have an OG SLO right beside me as I type, and they’re great amps. But c’mon. If some of these Mesa critics spent even half as much time over the last 35 years listening to what players want and doing R&D on new designs for new offerings as they did acting personally aggrieved and offended, maybe they would have moved as many amps as Mesa over the years.
</rant>
Agree, disagree - don’t care. Just my $0.02 on the “I’m offended because others created something similar to my idea but had more success than me” crowd.
<rant>
Every guitarist is much better off because builders over the decades have borrowed, copied, been inspired by, etc…other designs. Do they all sound the same? No, and that’s what matters.
Too many guys look at designs on paper, read a schematic, and subsequently listen with their eyes instead of their ears. Did the Marshall sound like a Fender? No. Does the Recto sound like an SLO? No. Does a 5150 sound like either of them? No. There’s a lot more that goes into how a final product sounds than what you see on paper, but that’s all some people want to focus on because people love to be offended online.
Some builders and manufacturers - like Randall Smith and Mesa - had much more business acumen, put out a variety of products, listened to what players wanted, and changed with the times. It’s why they had tremendous success while others had modest success by comparison.
Let’s look at Soldano for example since it’s everyone’s favorite talking point. Soldano dropped the SLO and within a few years of its release was charging around $3200 by the early ‘90s with a (not good) loop and line out. That’s $7200-$7400 current day money. He also released the X88 preamp, a concept that Soldano got from Bob Bradshaw. We don’t talk about that though. Bob approached Soldano with the preamp concept (not circuit), had them build them, then Soldano had a successful product that was essentially Bob’s idea. Meanwhile Soldano sold them to Bob for just a hair under retail, so Bob made no money on them despite bringing the concept to Soldano. But, that’s apparently cool. Anyway.
The Dual Rectifier comes out priced around $1200 compared to the $3200 of the SLO. It was originally targeting the Sunset strip crowd, but Mesa saw times were changing and listened to player feedback. Within around 1.5 years of release, Mesa had already went through 5 revisions because it’s what players wanted. Meanwhile, the Soldano remained unchanged.
The Rectifier was arguably the most successful and iconic amp of its time. It owned the airwaves in the ‘90s and early ‘00s. Mesa still evolved the line and the 3 channel version was born, which also went through 4 revisions in the first couple of years. Meanwhile, 15+ years later, the Soldano remained unchanged. They also had virtually nothing that wasn’t a spin off or variation of the SLO.
By 2010, Mesa evolved the Rectifier *again* based on player feedback. Countless options added, revisions made, etc. Meanwhile, nearly 24 years later, the Soldano remained unchanged.
By the time Soldano was sold, it was 32+ years since the release of the SLO. The Recto was on its 14th-15th revision and its 3rd major iteration and adapted to countless changes in the musical landscape. The SLO hadn’t changed at all, but still cost more than double what the Recto did. What else did Soldano do that was significant during those 30 years? Not much. The amp and circuit stubbornly was kept the same despite user tastes changing numerous times, and in Soup Nazi fashion, you either liked it as-is or moved on. The more years that passed, the less value and options you got for the money as other amps advanced.
While I’m glad Soldano had that 1 cool idea 35+ years ago, that doesn’t breed long-term success or mean you have business savvy. If you refuse to change, adapt to player feedback, or even try to expand your product line beyond - basically - cheaper variations of your 1 amp idea, then what should you expect? You saw the success others were having. You saw the changes in the music landscape. You had literal decades to do R&D and make other amps. Don’t bitch and complain because companies like Mesa continued to evolve and listen to players, expanded their product portfolio, and sold countless amps for it.
Complaints about Mesa having success vs Soldano because an amp has a similar preamp section but sounds completely different would be like Marshall complaining about all the British style manufacturers, or Vox complaining about Matchless in the ‘90s, or Fender complaining about Marshall, or etc. If you don’t like it, then stop bitching and whining and make an affordable product that appeals to a wider user base. If you want to stubbornly keep your product the same, then you’ll forever be a niche product for a niche crowd.
This isn’t a knock to Soldano. I have an OG SLO right beside me as I type, and they’re great amps. But c’mon. If some of these Mesa critics spent even half as much time over the last 35 years listening to what players want and doing R&D on new designs for new offerings as they did acting personally aggrieved and offended, maybe they would have moved as many amps as Mesa over the years.
</rant>
Agree, disagree - don’t care. Just my $0.02 on the “I’m offended because others created something similar to my idea but had more success than me” crowd.
C
c+addict
Well-known member
C
c+addict
Well-known member
Great post!
anomaly
Well-known member
The JTM-45 right? That's the Bassman clone I believe. They do kinda sound similar. I owned a 64' or 65' Bassman and I could definitely cop that JTM-45 vibe when it was cranked.
311splawndude
Well-known member
Legit