Feel of an Amp?

BesaMoogie

BesaMoogie

Well-known member
So lately I`ve been thinking of what determines the feel of an amp?
Beside the obvious thing like the OT and the circuit, usually people say that the more commlex an amp is, the slower the response in general gets or the more disconnected it feels.

But what is it with the increased complexity? Is it the directing of the signal through relays? Is it that the most time, signal and power traces are not sodered directely to the PCB but connected via some sort of connector in large production amps?

I`ve been looking at my Randall RM100, and while I like the MTS stuff for its flexibility, it always feels a tad more disconnected than other amps I have. Looking at the gutshots of Wizard amps, which are praised for its push and in the room feel, all components and connections are directely soldere via turrets. JCM 800 use PCB, but again, everything is soldered directly. No plastic connectors etc.

So I was thinking of maybe ditch the connectors in my RM100 and solder everything directely to the PCB. I know it a some work and the amp gets less easy to service and maybe in the end, nothing really changes. But at least, I would start with the singal traces to see if ther is a difference.

So. before I would get my self into work, what do you guys think of this approach???
 
BesaMoogie said:
So lately I`ve been thinking of what determines the feel of an amp?
Beside the obvious thing like the OT and the circuit, usually people say that the more commlex an amp is, the slower the response in general gets or the more disconnected it feels.

But what is it with the increased complexity? Is it the directing of the signal through relays? Is it that the most time, signal and power traces are not sodered directely to the PCB but connected via some sort of connector in large production amps?

I`ve been looking at my Randall RM100, and while I like the MTS stuff for its flexibility, it always feels a tad more disconnected than other amps I have. Looking at the gutshots of Wizard amps, which are praised for its push and in the room feel, all components and connections are directely soldere via turrets. JCM 800 use PCB, but again, everything is soldered directly. No plastic connectors etc.

So I was thinking of maybe ditch the connectors in my RM100 and solder everything directely to the PCB. I know it a some work and the amp gets less easy to service and maybe in the end, nothing really changes. But at least, I would start with the singal traces to see if ther is a difference.

So. before I would get my self into work, what do you guys think of this approach???
Click to expand...
I think it is a lot more than that. I have a turret board amp and just came from the wizard. Totally different feel. I also recently played a couple pcbs that have just as much punch as a wizard.

However, i am interested in what makes the feel different also. I imagine it is output transformer, plate voltage, choke, etc

One of my favorite amps early on was a soldano avenger, and it is the simplest amp out there, but never felt anything like the stuff todY. It was very loose
 
Smash said:
I think it is a lot more than that. I have a turret board amp and just came from the wizard. Totally different feel. I also recently played a couple pcbs that have just as much punch as a wizard.

However, i am interested in what makes the feel different also. I imagine it is output transformer, plate voltage, choke, etc

One of my favorite amps early on was a soldano avenger, and it is the simplest amp out there, but never felt anything like the stuff todY. It was very loose
Click to expand...
There is definately a connection to frequencies as well as the other things you mentioned. A lot of bass in the preamp contributes to a loose feel. But I am more interested in an immediate attack. I would call it as well some sort latency I want to get rid of, no matter how of loose or tight the amp is.
 
CrystalSky said:
I believe it’s mostly the tolex used to cover theheadshell. I like taurus pattern visually, but oldschool elephant pattern offers more tactile feel and fingertip massage 😂
Click to expand...
Thanks for your contribution. You forgot to mention that black tolex ads bass while white tolex sound brighter. And red tolex equals more gain!
 
Smash said:
I think it is a lot more than that. I have a turret board amp and just came from the wizard. Totally different feel. I also recently played a couple pcbs that have just as much punch as a wizard.

However, i am interested in what makes the feel different also. I imagine it is output transformer, plate voltage, choke, etc

One of my favorite amps early on was a soldano avenger, and it is the simplest amp out there, but never felt anything like the stuff todY. It was very loose
Click to expand...
One thing I encountered when I was building my audio system is, how the cables connecting the speakers to the tube amp affacted the sound. First I was using thick copper speaker cables. But the sound was distorted in the high end. The high hat in the recordings sounded like a "ssshhh ssshhh ssshhh". Than I went on and braided my own speaker cables out of single isolated, solidcore copper strands.

It totally cured the distorted high end and the high hat sonded like a real high hat should. But the bass inproved as well. It was more focues with more push. The whole system has more push now making you think, it tracks faster overall.

I dipped a bit in the whole world of this audio stuff and the people over there just crazy. Soldering cables directely, using solder as well as cables with silver and gold portions in it, talking about dielectrics etc etc.
 
BesaMoogie said:
There is definately a connection to frequencies as well as the other things you mentioned. A lot of bass in the preamp contributes to a loose feel. But I am more interested in an immediate attack. I would call it as well some sort latency I want to get rid of, no matter how of loose or tight the amp is.
Click to expand...
Oh. Immediate attack i would guess choke and cold bias.
 
BesaMoogie said:
To my understanding, higher filtering only comes into play, when the amp is played loud enough to prevent the power section to sag
Click to expand...

No, not really in higher gain amps. Filtering in the pre-amp and power amp section is like a reservoir, the larger the capacitance the larger the reservoir is, the most basic way I can describe it. If the amp feels attack wise loose/slow and forgiving under your fingers and when you pick, most of that feeling is filtering, and that isn't a volume thing or how much the power section is sagging, which is from a lot of volume.
Component values in the PI section will affect the feel the most in a tube guitar amp. For example, you could also play with bias grid resistors which are typically 220k, and could go down to say 150k or even lower which will make the amp feel tighter by basically increasing the "grip" the bias has on the power tube. You could up filtering in the PI which will make the amp feel tighter. The best way to find out is to actually try it, play it and see how this affects the feel and sound.

All that other stuff mentioned, like the complexity or going through relays or plastic connectors is really all a placebo effect or just plain BS.
 
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jasonP said:
No, not really in higher gain amps. Filtering in the pre-amp and power amp section is like a reservoir, the larger the capacitance the larger the reservoir is, the most basic way I can describe it. If the amp feels attack wise loose/slow and forgiving under your fingers and when you pick, most of that feeling is filtering, and that isn't a volume thing or how much the power section is sagging, which is from a lot of volume.
Component values in the PI section will affect the feel the most in a tube guitar amp. For example, you could also play with bias grid resistors which are typically 220k, and could go down to say 150k or even lower which will make the amp feel tighter by basically increasing the "grip" the bias has on the power tube. You could up filtering in the PI which will make the amp feel tighter. The best way to find out is to actually try it, play it and see how this affects the feel and sound.

All that other stuff mentioned, like the complexity or going through relays or plastic connectors is really all a placebo effect or just plain BS.
Click to expand...
Good stuff to know. Whats a good start to increase for example the value of the PI filtering. Double the amount of what`s already there or maybe try 1.5x of the original value?
 
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