Took a peek down the Fractal rabbit hole... considering a major change now.

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GreatRedDragon

GreatRedDragon

Well-known member
It all started innocently enough and tumbled downhill from there.

"That new Soldano rack unit is pretty cool!"

"If I had a rack, I could have all sorts of neat stuff!"

"I could do a lot having an Axe-FX in the rack with that Soldano!"

"Well wait a minute, my pedalboard already has a lot of rack-style stuff on it"

"If I had an Axe-FX I could downsize my massive, kinda clunky board quite a bit"

"An Axe-FX combined with the analog pedals, controlled with my ES-8, would be a killer combination!"

"Still super expensive though, not worth it... but wait, with the 4CM method it could replace my ES-8 and all my other pedals! That would cover the cost of an Axe-Fx!"

"I guess then I'd have to get the FC-12 to control it... too expensive again though so not worth it."

"But if I had an FM9, I could replace my entire pedalboard!"

Now I'm sitting here on a Friday night trying to figure the math out, and see if the enormous amount of time and money I've put into building my pedalboard over the last year (currently sitting on the kitchen table, as it has been for the last four months, waiting for me to not be too lazy to finish rewiring it all up) would add up to just getting an FM9 and a couple of expression pedals. :loco:

Cause the way this all started three years ago is...

"I'm finally getting a tube amp and a load box, so I can run it into my interface! Now I just need to buy a couple key pedals..."

"I've got a bunch of pedals now, but I hate being tied to my computer... if I get an IR-200 I can run entirely off of my board!"

"Now I've got a bunch of cool pedals in the effects loop of the IR-200 so it sounds great, and I wish I had more control..."

Next thing I knew, massive board with a big add-on bridge, ES-8, tons of new expensive digital effects, two power supplies, dozens of custom patch cables, tons of cable management...

Someone talk me out of it, tell me a Fractal unit with the 4CM wouldn't get me what I want. Please, God.
 
My current rig now has over 20 pedals.

With the IR-200 and the ES-8 at the center of it, it's designed so that I can run from my upfront pedals to my Marshall head, back to the IR loader with digital delay, reverb and modulation in parallel loops, while also letting me run patches using the onboard amp sims of the IR-200 cutting out the amp entirely. It's big, heavy, complicated and expensive.

Whereas, what I'm thinking with the Fractal is something like this:

m3wpsPp.png


Which to me looks clean, simple, no headaches and right now particularly appealing.
 
The Fractal units are very liberating in some respects. All the pedalboard bullshit with cable routing, power supplies, current draw, buffers, etc.
I play mine into a power amp into a 4X12. I wanted to do 4CM with a Marshall but the amp models were so convincing that I just use the models, They sound the same to me but have less noise.
I guess if you have some oddball boutique pedals there may not be an equivalent in the Fractal but you could always manipulate an existing model to get damn close.

BTW, all three channels of the original X88 are modeled and they sound great.
 
njshred said:
The FM9 has half the capacity of the III, I have one, but it’s a major compromise on more complex presets.

I generally use this instead:

View attachment 361739
Click to expand...
Did you build this box?

It is the perfect setup for me.

The AXE FX 3, two pedals, the FC12, music stand, hidden power supply, and a place to set my foot when doing the Rockstar leaning pose (AKA The Steve Harris).

Capture.JPG


I had recently purchased an Eventide Eclipse and I have been considering selling a practically brand new AXE FX III and an FC6 (still sealed in the box) for under $2,000 to cover some recent unexpected summer expenses but having something like this made might be worth keeping them and just find something else to sell :cool:

If you had it made somewhere, then please share the contact information, if possible :)
 
grrr_me_scary said:
Did you build this box?

It is the perfect setup for me.

The AXE FX 3, two pedals, the FC12, music stand, hidden power supply, and a place to set my foot when doing the Rockstar leaning pose (AKA The Steve Harris).

View attachment 361787

I had recently purchased an Eventide Eclipse and I have been considering selling a practically brand new AXE FX III and an FC6 (still sealed in the box) for under $2,000 to cover some recent unexpected summer expenses but having something like this made might be worth keeping them and just find something else to sell :cool:

If you had it made somewhere, then please share the contact information, if possible :)
Click to expand...
Yes, it started life as 1/2 sheet of 3/4” plywood.

I found this used rolling case on line for $50, refoamed it for another $50.

The space over the foot controller, in the case, is actually storage box as well.

1731150122158.jpeg


1731150283952.jpeg


1731150305538.jpeg


The rear door has a 6” exhaust fan.

1731152750090.jpeg


This is the cubby hole behind the expression pedals, sneakers just to give size prospective:

1731152952537.jpeg

1731152977768.jpeg
 
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I went down this same rabbit hole a couple years back. I hated the idea of going digital but I also hated the idea of continuing to lug heavy gear in to clubs at my age so I went from a Bogner rig to an original FM9 and I didn't really feel like it was missing all that much in terms of tone or feel. Maybe if you were in to vintage gear it might be a lot different but for playing cover gigs it was kind of the perfect solution. As far as processing power I would think for most users the III would be way overkill, I have a full rig running at all times and I don't even have the turbo model and I barely hit 50-55% on the cpu. That's running a pedal, amp, effects and cabs, not much more you really need unless you're doing some crazy effects and running dual amps all the time.
 
I'm pretty darned old. When I did the playing full time thing, all I had onstage was a Mark-III and a Crybaby. All FX were handled FOH. But I was lucky enough to be in a band that owned PA, lights and had a full-time sound man. He was extremely good and knew exactly which parts of which songs to punch in delay, chorus, or whatever the song called for.

Now that I am a complete hobbyist who plays a few shows a year with my way-back buddies and luggability is not an issue, I now have a modest assortment of heads and cabs and what I call my 'big' board (Gig board) and my lil' board (rehearsal board). With only a few outings a year, love the nostalgia and the 'look' of a road-worn 4x12 and a box of hot glass behind me.

But ... I've got 2 very good friends where I live who still play close to full-time. And they both use Fractal and they both have such incredible live sound. 100% consistent, every effect where you need it when you need it, FOH feed for absolute simplicity for the soundman of the night. I've got another very good friend who tours with a national act. He uses a Kemper for all the same reasons. If I was fortunate enough to get into a situation where I was playing more regularly again, I am 100% certain that I would be using a Fractal or a Kemper.
 
A night's sleep sadly did little to quiet my GAS.

I'm looking again at my board and everything involved:

- Boss NS-2
- Morley 20/20 Lock Wah
- Boss ES-8
- EHX Pitchfork​
- MXR Dyna Comp​
- MXR Phase 90​
- MXR EVH M117 Flanger​
- Boss SD-1​
- MXR Sugar Drive​
- Boss DD-8​
- Catalinbread Sabbra Cadabra​
- Rock Stock Nano Tuner​
- Boss EQ-200
- Boss IR-200
- MXR Studio Compressor​
- Musicom Lab Parallelizer​
- Boss SDE-3000D​
- Boss RV-500​
- Eventide Tricerachorus​
- Temple Audio Trio 28
- Fix Pedalboard Mag-Latch TAT21 Bridge​
- Temple Audio AC Module​
- Temple Audio 4X Module​
- Truetone CS12 Power Supply​
- Truetone CS7 Power Supply​
- Disaster Area MIDI Box 4​
- Rockboard Flat TRS to MIDI cables​
- 60+ TS/TRS patch cables with Squareplug connectors​
- Custom Squareplug TRS to 5-pin DIN MIDI cables​
- Roland USB MIDI interface​

All of this is great, but the amount of money, time and labor spent putting this together - a job that is still incomplete over a year in - is starting to dig at me. It's been a fun journey, I'm glad I've done it, but I'm kind of over it.

By comparison, a Fractal rig I would put together would look like this:

- Fractal FM9
- Mission Engineering EP-1 x2
- Temple Audio Duo 34
- Temple Audio AC Module​
- Temple Audio 4X Module​
- Four patch cables for input, amp send/return and MIDI​
​
Smaller, lighter, simpler, and way more flexible.

FM9 vs Axe FX III, my research so far tells me that for my typical sound the FM9 should be plenty of horsepower. Of course, with the flexibility of Fractal I may end up diving deeper into more complicated rigs, which could possibly cause me to run out of headroom, but as I understand it so far the kind of tone I go for I shouldn't run into trouble.

Even just selling the pedals I have to the chain music store, accepting their flat offer of 70% of their sale price, I estimate I could get north of 3k CAD. That's not taking into account selling the stuff myself, or the other bits and bobs I have (like the board). That would cover the FM9....

I'm very tempted right now. The one thing really giving me pause, really, is I just don't know how my Marshall would take the Fractal stompboxes compared to my analog stuff.
 
You guys aren’t making any sense at all.

I have it on good authority from guys who have never played modelers and have no idea how to use them, and who can point to a Metallica gig with bad tone where Axe-Fx’s were used which makes them one of a million variables influencing guitar tone there, who swear that modelers cannot possibly sound ANYWHERE CLOSE to tube amps, but instead sound fake and awful 100% of the time.
 
GreatRedDragon said:
A night's sleep sadly did little to quiet my GAS.

I'm looking again at my board and everything involved:

- Boss NS-2
- Morley 20/20 Lock Wah
- Boss ES-8
- EHX Pitchfork​
- MXR Dyna Comp​
- MXR Phase 90​
- MXR EVH M117 Flanger​
- Boss SD-1​
- MXR Sugar Drive​
- Boss DD-8​
- Catalinbread Sabbra Cadabra​
- Rock Stock Nano Tuner​
- Boss EQ-200
- Boss IR-200
- MXR Studio Compressor​
- Musicom Lab Parallelizer​
- Boss SDE-3000D​
- Boss RV-500​
- Eventide Tricerachorus​
- Temple Audio Trio 28
- Fix Pedalboard Mag-Latch TAT21 Bridge​
- Temple Audio AC Module​
- Temple Audio 4X Module​
- Truetone CS12 Power Supply​
- Truetone CS7 Power Supply​
- Disaster Area MIDI Box 4​
- Rockboard Flat TRS to MIDI cables​
- 60+ TS/TRS patch cables with Squareplug connectors​
- Custom Squareplug TRS to 5-pin DIN MIDI cables​
- Roland USB MIDI interface​

All of this is great, but the amount of money, time and labor spent putting this together - a job that is still incomplete over a year in - is starting to dig at me. It's been a fun journey, I'm glad I've done it, but I'm kind of over it.

By comparison, a Fractal rig I would put together would look like this:

- Fractal FM9
- Mission Engineering EP-1 x2
- Temple Audio Duo 34
- Temple Audio AC Module​
- Temple Audio 4X Module​
- Four patch cables for input, amp send/return and MIDI​
​
Smaller, lighter, simpler, and way more flexible.

FM9 vs Axe FX III, my research so far tells me that for my typical sound the FM9 should be plenty of horsepower. Of course, with the flexibility of Fractal I may end up diving deeper into more complicated rigs, which could possibly cause me to run out of headroom, but as I understand it so far the kind of tone I go for I shouldn't run into trouble.

Even just selling the pedals I have to the chain music store, accepting their flat offer of 70% of their sale price, I estimate I could get north of 3k CAD. That's not taking into account selling the stuff myself, or the other bits and bobs I have (like the board). That would cover the FM9....

I'm very tempted right now. The one thing really giving me pause, really, is I just don't know how my Marshall would take the Fractal stompboxes compared to my analog stuff.
Click to expand...
One thing about Fractal vs other rigs, is you will miss the fun of trying different things. Yeah, you can replace all this stuff, but you will also miss trying different things, different configurations, etc... or you might miss the character of specific pedals, as the Fractal effects can be kind of vanilla.

I have used Fractal stuff for years, and I love it, but I also still like playing with pedals and old rack units and such.
 
GreatRedDragon said:
I was curious about the difference between the FM9 and the III in terms of capability.

What exactly can the III do that the FM9 can't?
Click to expand...

https://www.fractalaudio.com/family

scroll down to the Product Comparison Table to see the differences.


I have a Helix Floor, and HX-Effects, and a computer based rig, and just got my FM9 Mk II Turbo delivered a few days ago. So far so good...

When the next hardware revision is released I may "move up" to the rack version.

No plans to sell my tube amps or other gear.

1731202782191.jpeg
 
GreatRedDragon said:
A night's sleep sadly did little to quiet my GAS.

I'm looking again at my board and everything involved:

- Boss NS-2
- Morley 20/20 Lock Wah
- Boss ES-8
- EHX Pitchfork​
- MXR Dyna Comp​
- MXR Phase 90​
- MXR EVH M117 Flanger​
- Boss SD-1​
- MXR Sugar Drive​
- Boss DD-8​
- Catalinbread Sabbra Cadabra​
- Rock Stock Nano Tuner​
- Boss EQ-200
- Boss IR-200
- MXR Studio Compressor​
- Musicom Lab Parallelizer​
- Boss SDE-3000D​
- Boss RV-500​
- Eventide Tricerachorus​
- Temple Audio Trio 28
- Fix Pedalboard Mag-Latch TAT21 Bridge​
- Temple Audio AC Module​
- Temple Audio 4X Module​
- Truetone CS12 Power Supply​
- Truetone CS7 Power Supply​
- Disaster Area MIDI Box 4​
- Rockboard Flat TRS to MIDI cables​
- 60+ TS/TRS patch cables with Squareplug connectors​
- Custom Squareplug TRS to 5-pin DIN MIDI cables​
- Roland USB MIDI interface​

All of this is great, but the amount of money, time and labor spent putting this together - a job that is still incomplete over a year in - is starting to dig at me. It's been a fun journey, I'm glad I've done it, but I'm kind of over it.

By comparison, a Fractal rig I would put together would look like this:

- Fractal FM9
- Mission Engineering EP-1 x2
- Temple Audio Duo 34
- Temple Audio AC Module​
- Temple Audio 4X Module​
- Four patch cables for input, amp send/return and MIDI​
​
Smaller, lighter, simpler, and way more flexible.

FM9 vs Axe FX III, my research so far tells me that for my typical sound the FM9 should be plenty of horsepower. Of course, with the flexibility of Fractal I may end up diving deeper into more complicated rigs, which could possibly cause me to run out of headroom, but as I understand it so far the kind of tone I go for I shouldn't run into trouble.

Even just selling the pedals I have to the chain music store, accepting their flat offer of 70% of their sale price, I estimate I could get north of 3k CAD. That's not taking into account selling the stuff myself, or the other bits and bobs I have (like the board). That would cover the FM9....

I'm very tempted right now. The one thing really giving me pause, really, is I just don't know how my Marshall would take the Fractal stompboxes compared to my analog stuff.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure which Marshall you've got but the AxeIII and the FM9 effects models sound great in front my old Super Lead. I would use comps, ODs, phaser, flangers in front with no issues. You just need to watch the gain staging.
For a while, I would do 4CM with just the amps loop (mod) but preferred it loaded down into the Suhr RL and then back into the Fractal for delay and reverb and then into a power amp.
Eventually, I just cut the Marshall amp out altogether.
 
chumbucket said:
I'm not sure which Marshall you've got but the AxeIII and the FM9 effects models sound great in front my old Super Lead. I would use comps, ODs, phaser, flangers in front with no issues. You just need to watch the gain staging.
For a while, I would do 4CM with just the amps loop (mod) but preferred it loaded down into the Suhr RL and then back into the Fractal for delay and reverb and then into a power amp.
Eventually, I just cut the Marshall amp out altogether.
Click to expand...
I've got a DSL100 as well as a modded Ceriatone 2203.

Your signal chain with the RL is exactly what I do right now.

I am hesitant to turn my back on tube amps, since I spent decades of my life as a player dreaming of the day I could have them. But I have a sneaking suspicion the Fractal stuff will turn me eventually...
 
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