Guptech MWAC and Sun Gate Users

[berumen77]

So I just got a Behringer HD400 hum eliminator in this afternoon and got to testing it. 10 minutes in and it works but it does affect the signal because its a passive transformer based hum eliminator so I had to use a buffered pedal to combat this. Here's how I had to set it up. This is just for 4 Cable Method that instantly became 7 cable method with the patch cables...

Guitar>MWAC IN
MWAC Out> Buffered pedal of choice Input
Buffered pedal Output>HD400 Input 1
HD400 Output 1>Amp Input

Amp FX Loop Send>MWAC Gate Input
MWAC Gate Output>HD400 Input 2
HD400 Output 2>Amp FX Loop Return

Hum/Buzz is gone. Scary quiet with Gate on, Gate works instantly at 9 o'clock. Guitar can be rolled down to 2-3 and not completely get weird cut offs. But...when pedal is disengaged the signal is quieter, I'm guessing due to loading or something from the HD400.

 

[GuitarGuy08]

So I just got a Behringer HD400 hum eliminator in this afternoon and got to testing it. 10 minutes in and it works but it does affect the signal because its a passive transformer based hum eliminator so I had to use a buffered pedal to combat this. Here's how I had to set it up. This is just for 4 Cable Method that instantly became 7 cable method with the patch cables...

Guitar>MWAC IN
MWAC Out> Buffered pedal of choice Input
Buffered pedal Output>HD400 Input 1
HD400 Output 1>Amp Input

Amp FX Loop Send>MWAC Gate Input
MWAC Gate Output>HD400 Input 2
HD400 Output 2>Amp FX Loop Return

Hum/Buzz is gone. Scary quiet with Gate on, Gate works instantly at 9 o'clock. Guitar can be rolled down to 2-3 and not completely get weird cut offs. But...when pedal is disengaged the signal is quieter, I'm guessing due to loading or something from the HD400.

I really enjoy these threads. Thank for posting detailed info and findings.

 

[Erock]

So I just got a Behringer HD400 hum eliminator in this afternoon and got to testing it. 10 minutes in and it works but it does affect the signal because its a passive transformer based hum eliminator so I had to use a buffered pedal to combat this. Here's how I had to set it up. This is just for 4 Cable Method that instantly became 7 cable method with the patch cables...

Guitar>MWAC IN
MWAC Out> Buffered pedal of choice Input
Buffered pedal Output>HD400 Input 1
HD400 Output 1>Amp Input

Amp FX Loop Send>MWAC Gate Input
MWAC Gate Output>HD400 Input 2
HD400 Output 2>Amp FX Loop Return

Hum/Buzz is gone. Scary quiet with Gate on, Gate works instantly at 9 o'clock. Guitar can be rolled down to 2-3 and not completely get weird cut offs. But...when pedal is disengaged the signal is quieter, I'm guessing due to loading or something from the HD400.

Will have to keep that in mind. Thanks! After settings up a friends rig a few weeks ago with the 4cm, I want to try it with my board at some point. I have a couple amps I like to switch between though, so it makes it a pain, and the switching rigs are a mint. Someday.

I really enjoy these threads. Thank for posting detailed info and findings.

Me too, good to store this information in the memory bank, and confirm hardware that works.

 

[berumen77]

Okay, so for anyone that has issues using a key input on a noise gate running into FX Loop with it causing a ground loop hum/buzz the solution is to use a buffered splitter with an Iso output. I ended up getting an Axess Electronics BS2 (as used by EVH) and ran guitar to Input, Main Output to amp input, Iso'd Out to MWAC "Key" Input. The gate is connected to FX Loop and using it this way the knob is at 9-9:30. I would not recommend the 4CM unless the pedal or device has isolated plastic jacks and even then there is a high probability of ground loop internally within the device.

The Axess Electronics BS2 worked perfectly and something like the Suhr Buffer with Iso out would be perfect as well.

 

[Bash_Man]

I had a similar issue with running my Fractal FX8 in 4CM with my amp. it introduced ground hum. after experimenting with TONS of options, the only item that took the ground loop away was an older ebtech Hum Eliminator.. and it kept the tone intact
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/135291417684?_skw=ebtech+hum+eliminator&itmmeta=01JDDJ3T2BX11FBQG240T6N78P&hash=item1f7fff3454:g:AzkAAOSwbnBnBYEO&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKkthxWzWA3RB5bRDdlke6n9y5YOWrundHDV6/p5uVIbMrGutnBPsJ/zB3V7P/llVo8VWs5sM5gDobkXxxnsxLY8audovmrTJE5FwOsv/aVVtO8j6dWoNHn8UxdsCWGnEnbj6VnaYFH4vebndRz1QM9ngIYs8vooztjXIuqH13W/5qh9cPBtCfLMbNtoOdB2YuYKJg1UFkE05G5Ijws+wJqXZ9Md4QpZxDsQd0Pu96wDNhR3zn6evqoS6qKnnBuF4QCgunKk5P++VPPug5HLCOegFYnglNCUxhVs+v7vMgsWvA==|tkp:BFBMoqGPsutk

I do have the Gup Tech sun gate, but I don't recall if it introduced a ground loop or not. Most of the time 4CM will introduce a ground loop as you're introducing the same ground back into the line twice. As mentioned, look at the ebtech unit above and if you get it, plug it before the Loop send/return and see if it resolves your issue.

Wired as follow:
Amp Send --> ebtech HE Input 01 --> ebtech HE output 01 --> Pedal Input
Pedal Output --> ebtech HE input 02 --> ebtech HE output 02 --> Amp Return

Good luck.

 

[BeZo]

I had a similar issue with running my Fractal FX8 in 4CM with my amp. it introduced ground hum. after experimenting with TONS of options, the only item that took the ground loop away was an older ebtech Hum Eliminator.. and it kept the tone intact
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/135291417684?_skw=ebtech+hum+eliminator&itmmeta=01JDDJ3T2BX11FBQG240T6N78P&hash=item1f7fff3454:g:AzkAAOSwbnBnBYEO&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKkthxWzWA3RB5bRDdlke6n9y5YOWrundHDV6/p5uVIbMrGutnBPsJ/zB3V7P/llVo8VWs5sM5gDobkXxxnsxLY8audovmrTJE5FwOsv/aVVtO8j6dWoNHn8UxdsCWGnEnbj6VnaYFH4vebndRz1QM9ngIYs8vooztjXIuqH13W/5qh9cPBtCfLMbNtoOdB2YuYKJg1UFkE05G5Ijws+wJqXZ9Md4QpZxDsQd0Pu96wDNhR3zn6evqoS6qKnnBuF4QCgunKk5P++VPPug5HLCOegFYnglNCUxhVs+v7vMgsWvA==|tkp:BFBMoqGPsutk

I do have the Gup Tech sun gate, but I don't recall if it introduced a ground loop or not. Most of the time 4CM will introduce a ground loop as you're introducing the same ground back into the line twice. As mentioned, look at the ebtech unit above and if you get it, plug it before the Loop send/return and see if it resolves your issue.

Wired as follow:
Amp Send --> ebtech HE Input 01 --> ebtech HE output 01 --> Pedal Input
Pedal Output --> ebtech HE input 02 --> ebtech HE output 02 --> Amp Return

Good luck.

I'm using the FX8 in 4CM to two different amps with no issues. I just had to make some of their "Humbuster" cables. For my other rig (if that band will ever play again), I used pedals in 4CM with a Zuul in the loop keyed off the buffer. Again, no problems. You just need to break the ground loop between circuit paths somehow.

 

[Bash_Man]

I'm using the FX8 in 4CM to two different amps with no issues. I just had to make some of their "Humbuster" cables. For my other rig (if that band will ever play again), I used pedals in 4CM with a Zuul in the loop keyed off the buffer. Again, no problems. You just need to break the ground loop between circuit paths somehow.

I do have humbuster cables as well. When I disconnect the FX8 from the amp's loop, the ground loop disappears.

I could be wrong, but I think the Zuul doesn't complete the loop because of the key input feature. What buffer are you using with the Fortinet Zuul key input? Is the split output on the buffer isolated?

The Sun Gate has an additional Input/Output. The input works exactly like the Key Input on a Zuul, but has an output that allows you to go to say the front of the amp, which in this case may be causing the Group Loop.

Cheers

 

[BeZo]

I do have humbuster cables as well. When I disconnect the FX8 from the amp's loop, the ground loop disappears.

I could be wrong, but I think the Zuul doesn't complete the loop because of the key input feature. What buffer are you using with the Fortinet Zuul key input? Is the split output on the buffer isolated?

The Sun Gate has an additional Input/Output. The input works exactly like the Key Input on a Zuul, but has an output that allows you to go to say the front of the amp, which in this case may be causing the Group Loop.

Cheers

The MXR MC406 Line Buffer. I'm using the buffer side through and the direct side to the key input I believe. I always use the same outlet for my amp and my board too. I have a long snake with 4 cables and a power cable I use.

 

[Bash_Man]

The MXR MC406 Line Buffer. I'm using the buffer side through and the direct side to the key input I believe. I always use the same outlet for my amp and my board too. I have a long snake with 4 cables and a power cable I use.

The buffered split may help remove any possible ground loop in this case. Bob Bradshaw is a genius when it comes to guitar gear. So I can see him designing something like the CAE Buffer and 1 of the outputs being completely isolated, eliminating ground loops split into 2 devices.

It could also be the design of the Zuul pedal with the key input. Fortin may have done something in there to eliminate possible ground loops. But that's purely an assumption on my side. if someone with technical knowledge of the Zuul's design can correct me, please do

Cheers