101B blue channel vs 20th XTC blue channel

[bwgintegra]

I know this has been discussed some what here in some of the reviews. I sold my 101b a while back and ended up with a 20th xtc el34 model recently. I never owned both at the same time. What do you guys think about the two and their differences in the blue channel? How do you think the amount of gain compares? I feel my 20th has less gain on the blue but has been awhile since I played the 101b. I defiantly like the changes to the amp overall and feel the red channel is much improved but feeling a little disappointed with the blue channel. Thanks for any input

 

[Ventura]

I know this has been discussed some what here in some of the reviews. I sold my 101b a while back and ended up with a 20th xtc el34 model recently. I never owned both at the same time. What do you guys think about the two and their differences in the blue channel? How do you think the amount of gain compares? I feel my 20th has less gain on the blue but has been awhile since I played the 101b. I defiantly like the changes to the amp overall and feel the red channel is much improved but feeling a little disappointed with the blue channel. Thanks for any input

For what it's worth, I plugged a matched quad of Gold Lion KT77's into my 20thA and it kicks such serious ass - and I thought it was a masterpiece to start with already!! Nevertheless, the Blue channel - at least to me - opens up with volume. I need to get 'er up to 11 o'clock and beyond to have her really sing. But - on that note - the KT77's have definitely added some extra oooomph to this beautiful awesome amp, and the blue seems to be a bit more alive even at lower volumes now...

My 2 cents,
V.

 

[Glimpse]

I currently own both an XTC Classic and a 20thA. I definitely think there's a difference between the blue channels between the two. To my ears, the Classic has more gain. Then again, one thing to keep in mind is that both have different tubes in them, so that might make a difference. But really, there's definitely a difference...

 

[se7en]

I thought the opposite, that my 20th had more gain than my 101b. I think because it's more open, that it may seem like less. Anyways, I find as I turn up I need less gain anyways, so not really an issue. You could try some higher gain preamps if you need more gain.

 

[Ventura]

I thought the opposite, that my 20th had more gain than my 101b. I think because it's more open, that it may seem like less. Anyways, I find as I turn up I need less gain anyways, so not really an issue. You could try some higher gain preamps if you need more gain.

Agreed. I think the 20thA has more gain on tap over all. If it's not prevelant in your iteration of the 20thX, maybe bias the tubes a bit better, or throw some solid Chinese 12AX7Bs into the line up. Done.

Best,
V.

 

[TheMagicEight]

I know this has been discussed some what here in some of the reviews. I sold my 101b a while back and ended up with a 20th xtc el34 model recently. I never owned both at the same time. What do you guys think about the two and their differences in the blue channel? How do you think the amount of gain compares? I feel my 20th has less gain on the blue but has been awhile since I played the 101b. I defiantly like the changes to the amp overall and feel the red channel is much improved but feeling a little disappointed with the blue channel. Thanks for any input

I did the exact same thing, and I get what you mean. The 20th Blue can seem a little flatter than the thickness to the 101b. I'd really like to have the two side by side to compare, but I think when it comes down to it the 20th just needs a little extra volume.

Honestly, that to me is one of the biggest differences between the two. The 101b - as you turned up the volume - became too compressed, where the 20th is too flat until you crank it up. As for gain? I think the 20th gain isn't meant to be cranked up really high, where the 101b's gain (on B2 where I spent most of my time) needed to be up past 1:30 or it would sound thin. On B1, though, the 101b seemed to have more usable gain (on Blue, not Red).

While I really miss some aspects of the 101b's Blue, I was never able to get it sounding amazing with neck pickups. They always seemed too thin or overbearing, but never balanced. That's what the 20th does exceptionally well IMO, and although it needs more volume to get to sound its best, I'd much rather own an amp that sounds alright at low volumes and awesome cranked than something which is pretty good across all volumes.

 

[Ventura]

And again, all the chitter chatter of the Gold Lion KT77's is pretty bang on. Its most essential benefit being that of bringing the full range of the 20thX's tone and thickness and lushfulness down to more usable volume levels; and yes, still completely excelling at the higher volumes. I foound the Blue has more life now that it's equipped with KT77's. I woulda never thought twice about it, but after being badgered by Gary (aka glip22, aka "The Shiva Pimp") I took the plunge, threw a set in, and ya, definitely no turning back.

Just saying,
V.

 

[RG955TT]

V, where did you get the KT77 GL tubes from that bias up in the 20th? Bias has a pretty limited range so I'm just wondering. How did they bias up and where did you end up setting them?

 

[Ventura]

V, where did you get the KT77 GL tubes from that bias up in the 20th? Bias has a pretty limited range so I'm just wondering. How did they bias up and where did you end up setting them?

Bought my GL-KT77's from Jon at thetubestore.com

The biasing was a piece of piss, I could have had them well into the red zone kissing 40mA per tube, or down to the cold spots of the mid 20's - it was all there. I used a Weber Bias-Rite, used my cabinet as the load, and did it with an hour wait from the 1st adjustment to the ending adjustment. I ended up biasing them at about 30mA +/-1mA from Tube1 to Tube4, there was a variance. I checked with Charlie at Bogner HQ, he said 32mA was fine, but doing the math, my plate voltage on these beasts was 550... So 25/550 x 60 = 27.2mA, and at 65% it was 29.5mA So I went a touch hotter, and the thing sounds completely insane. And dude, I was already about this amp as it came stock!!

Secondly, had some brand new TAD12AX7Cs kicking around, I fired the lot into the V1,2,3 and 6 sockets - totally sharpened everything up. Super serious tone machine - and it already was to start with, it's just notched up another impossible level.

This thing is so golden. There are no words to describe...

Mo

 

[Nico]

V, where did you get the KT77 GL tubes from that bias up in the 20th? Bias has a pretty limited range so I'm just wondering. How did they bias up and where did you end up setting them?

Bought my GL-KT77's from Jon at thetubestore.com

The biasing was a piece of piss, I could have had them well into the red zone kissing 40mA per tube, or down to the cold spots of the mid 20's - it was all there. I used a Weber Bias-Rite, used my cabinet as the load, and did it with an hour wait from the 1st adjustment to the ending adjustment. I ended up biasing them at about 30mA +/-1mA from Tube1 to Tube4, there was a variance. I checked with Charlie at Bogner HQ, he said 32mA was fine, but doing the math, my plate voltage on these beasts was 550... So 25/550 x 60 = 27.2mA, and at 65% it was 29.5mA So I went a touch hotter, and the thing sounds completely insane. And dude, I was already about this amp as it came stock!!

Secondly, had some brand new TAD12AX7Cs kicking around, I fired the lot into the V1,2,3 and 6 sockets - totally sharpened everything up. Super serious tone machine - and it already was to start with, it's just notched up another impossible level.

This thing is so golden. There are no words to describe...

Mo

Hey Mo. you keep surprising me, I remember all your posts about the 20th was perfection itself even with EL34...

I am happy you like your amp now more than you did when you bought it, not an easy thing to do...

 

[Ventura]

V, where did you get the KT77 GL tubes from that bias up in the 20th? Bias has a pretty limited range so I'm just wondering. How did they bias up and where did you end up setting them?

Bought my GL-KT77's from Jon at thetubestore.com

The biasing was a piece of piss, I could have had them well into the red zone kissing 40mA per tube, or down to the cold spots of the mid 20's - it was all there. I used a Weber Bias-Rite, used my cabinet as the load, and did it with an hour wait from the 1st adjustment to the ending adjustment. I ended up biasing them at about 30mA +/-1mA from Tube1 to Tube4, there was a variance. I checked with Charlie at Bogner HQ, he said 32mA was fine, but doing the math, my plate voltage on these beasts was 550... So 25/550 x 60 = 27.2mA, and at 65% it was 29.5mA So I went a touch hotter, and the thing sounds completely insane. And dude, I was already about this amp as it came stock!!

Secondly, had some brand new TAD12AX7Cs kicking around, I fired the lot into the V1,2,3 and 6 sockets - totally sharpened everything up. Super serious tone machine - and it already was to start with, it's just notched up another impossible level.

This thing is so golden. There are no words to describe...

Mo

Hey Mo. you keep surprising me, I remember all your posts about the 20th was perfection itself even with EL34...

I am happy you like your amp now more than you did when you bought it, not an easy thing to do...

You're damn straight...!! I simply decided to try them out due to all the props they were given from various forum members. I could have never imagined this baby sounding better, but it does. It's not that it sounds better overall, simply sounds better at lower volumes as well as higher up's. Could just be too that my stock JJ's were getting tired, it has been a year ya know

So it's not that I'm jumping ship, I am just uber impressed with these new bottles - they've cleaned up the clean, substantially, and for the Blue and Red, off-the-hook, juicier and more lively.

So it goes... Were my old tubes just getting tired?? Maybe. But whatever it is - these new bottles kick ass

Mo

 

[Nico]

V, where did you get the KT77 GL tubes from that bias up in the 20th? Bias has a pretty limited range so I'm just wondering. How did they bias up and where did you end up setting them?

Bought my GL-KT77's from Jon at thetubestore.com

The biasing was a piece of piss, I could have had them well into the red zone kissing 40mA per tube, or down to the cold spots of the mid 20's - it was all there. I used a Weber Bias-Rite, used my cabinet as the load, and did it with an hour wait from the 1st adjustment to the ending adjustment. I ended up biasing them at about 30mA +/-1mA from Tube1 to Tube4, there was a variance. I checked with Charlie at Bogner HQ, he said 32mA was fine, but doing the math, my plate voltage on these beasts was 550... So 25/550 x 60 = 27.2mA, and at 65% it was 29.5mA So I went a touch hotter, and the thing sounds completely insane. And dude, I was already about this amp as it came stock!!

Secondly, had some brand new TAD12AX7Cs kicking around, I fired the lot into the V1,2,3 and 6 sockets - totally sharpened everything up. Super serious tone machine - and it already was to start with, it's just notched up another impossible level.

This thing is so golden. There are no words to describe...

Mo

Hey Mo. you keep surprising me, I remember all your posts about the 20th was perfection itself even with EL34...

I am happy you like your amp now more than you did when you bought it, not an easy thing to do...

You're damn straight...!! I simply decided to try them out due to all the props they were given from various forum members. I could have never imagined this baby sounding better, but it does. It's not that it sounds better overall, simply sounds better at lower volumes as well as higher up's. Could just be too that my stock JJ's were getting tired, it has been a year ya know

So it's not that I'm jumping ship, I am just uber impressed with these new bottles - they've cleaned up the clean, substantially, and for the Blue and Red, off-the-hook, juicier and more lively.

So it goes... Were my old tubes just getting tired?? Maybe. But whatever it is - these new bottles kick ass

Mo

Excellent!!! Will those tubes go okay or actually fitted in a 101B.... I'd sure would like to try them in the future!

 

[Ventura]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.......????

Nico, this is something I simply can't answer. I know the 20thX is voiced differently than the earlier 101B and other 101 iterations; and on top of that, the stock 20thX is 6L6, I went with EL34. I am not sure how KT77's would fly in a 101B. And they're too spendy to take the risk. Maybe see if there's anyone who'd lend you a quad to try out??

Some places that you order from will offer you a 10 day money back guarantee. Email 'em and tell 'em you're just not sure how they'll sound, and may return them not due to mechanical problems or the like, you may just not like them. If you're straight up with people, they'll often appreciate it and help you out. Honesty's the best policy, Bro, and it could work in your favor

Peace,
Mo