20th Shiva and 101b tones?

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richedie

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I have a 20th Shiva and have a chance to get a great deal on a 101b from the late 90s.
I don't when I will get a chance to play it, but should I bother?

I have read the older XTCs were too compressed and lacked cut and heard the red channel is not that great. Apparently, the 20th XTC fixed all this and also has a much bettet master volume!

Sound familiar, or would the 101b, be a nice addition?

It has been a while since I played a 101B. Played a friend's 1997 for a while but it was too long ago to make a call on it. I just remember liking it but not loving it my like my 20th. I thikn Bogner really improved these amps with the 20th series.
 
Your description of the 101B pretty much nails the one I had. :thumbsdown: The 20th Shiva sounds way better IMO.
 
Agreed. The 20th XTC or XTC Classic are the best of the XTC line...some like the 100b as well, but the clean channel and FX loop aren't as great. The 101b doesn't have a tight enough feel, IMO...you have to fight the amp...tougher to play rhythm where you need a tight response. Sure you can use the tight excursion or a boost, but you shouldn't have to. Even on the Loose excursion of the 20th, it'll hold together well.
 
Thank you guys. I played one for a while but it was before I had my Shiva, and it was a few years back.
I remember liking it....but not loving it like my Shiva.

I decided to go for variety with a 20th Shiva, PWE Event Horizon and either a Splawn Street Rod or Mesa Electra Dyne.
 
richedie":3vlqgg3y said:
Think you guys. I played one for a while but it was before I had my Shiva, and it was a few years back.
I remember liking it....but not loving it like my Shiva.

I decided to go for variety with a 20th Shiva, PWE Event Horizon and either a Splawn Street Rod or Mesa Electra Dyne.
Click to expand...
:rock: ...how's the Event Horizon?
 
Event Horizon is amazing! More old school sounding than the 20th Shiva. Love it.
Not sure I understand when guys say the 1990's XTCs are so much better.
 
I think the 20th Shiva miht be the best amp I have owned. I played my friend's Friedman Naked and it is decent but has nothing on the thick smooth tone of the, nor as versatile.
 
So are you guys referring to all the older XTC amps? To my ears, in hearing clips some of the older XTC models sound great, but if I had the extra cash, I think I would go 20th Ann.
 
richedie":3v6dkr9a said:
So are you guys referring to all the older XTC amps? To my ears, in hearing clips some of the older XTC models sound great, but if I had the extra cash, I think I would go 20th Ann.
Click to expand...
I went with the 20th Anniv. and regretted it. Personally, I think the Classic and 100b are the best sounding XTCs, followed by the 101b, then the 20th. The 20th sounds pretty good at low to mid volumes, but really disappointed me when I pushed it. The 101b was great loud, though I prefer a good 2203 Marshall any day. I've yet to play a Classic or a 100b, but from the clips I've heard, I've liked those the most.

To me, the 20th was grainy and lacked the really nice harmonic depth that I feel is necessary. YMMV.
 
richedie":305xtla9 said:
So are you guys referring to all the older XTC amps? To my ears, in hearing clips some of the older XTC models sound great, but if I had the extra cash, I think I would go 20th Ann.
Click to expand...

To me the 20th Ann. Ecstasy is Bogner's best work. It covers more territory than anything else and has one of the best hard rock rhythm and lead tones I've ever heard, while still covering the classic rock / mid-gain tones exceptionally well. All the switches are useful to me.
 
:no: :thumbsdown:
TheMagicEight":285n6o26 said:
richedie":285n6o26 said:
So are you guys referring to all the older XTC amps? To my ears, in hearing clips some of the older XTC models sound great, but if I had the extra cash, I think I would go 20th Ann.
Click to expand...
I went with the 20th Anniv. and regretted it. Personally, I think the Classic and 100b are the best sounding XTCs, followed by the 101b, then the 20th. The 20th sounds pretty good at low to mid volumes, but really disappointed me when I pushed it. The 101b was great loud, though I prefer a good 2203 Marshall any day. I've yet to play a Classic or a 100b, but from the clips I've heard, I've liked those the most.

To me, the 20th was grainy and lacked the really nice harmonic depth that I feel is necessary.
YMMV.
Click to expand...

I sort of agree with you. I got out to play the 20th XTC again and I think the 20th Shiva has a much better voice than the 20th XTC. Richer and smoother. I also was in Philly today and was able to play a friend's 1996 101b. The 101b and the 20th Shiva are my two favorite Bogners. The 20th XTC was thw biggest disappointment to me. The 20th Shiva and older XTC seems smoother and richer. The master volume on the 20th Shiva is the best though.

Really, I think the 20th Shiva is the only new Bogner that compares with the older pre '97 XTC's.

I feel I made the best choice getting the 20th Shiva and with EL34s.

I am not big on three channel amps though. Just give me one or two channels. A Fryette Deliverance if it had a loop would be a thing of beauty. I think the next amp I buy will a Mesa Electra Dyne.

On the volume thing, the 20th Shiva kills at any volume. I also find the PWE Event Horizon to be an amazing amp.

I have owned Marshall, but to me these newer amps are pushing the envelope with feel, tone and master volume effectiveness. I need amps I can practice with at home too. Marshall always were a pain with that.

One thing I really like with the mode and shift knobs on the 20th Shiva is that I can get heavy enough to cover things like Alice in Chains, Godsmack, Tool, etc....without needing the third channel of the XTC.
And....still cover Led Zep, Hendrix and Rush....VH, etc

My 20th is not gainy and it is very rich sounding.

The heavy tones I go for these days are something like what you hear on the latest Alice in Chains record and the new 20th Shiva seems to do it fine! Not sure why some guys characterize the Shiva as an 80s metal amp. That makes no sense to me.
 
Yeah, the original Shiva sorta stops short of 80's metal, as it's a bit too round...you need to thin it out with a pedal to get that 80's grit. Maybe they think it's an 80's metal amp because it's based on the JCM 800??

Surprised you don't dig on the 20th XTC...I like it as least as much as my Shiva and more than older XTC's...Did you get a chance to open it up much? It really comes alive with some volume and stays tight. Everyone that has played mine couldn't put the guitar down ...my one buddy put his 101b up for sale after playing it.
 
se&en, did you see what the MagicEight wrote about the 20th? He said it fell apart at volume.
In all honesty I was a little hard on it above...but really I don't know if I need a three channel monster head. Maybe if I was a pro, LOL.
Only really heavy stuff I play is maybe Alice in Chains, STP, Tool, APC, Alter Bridge some Metallica, etc. The Shiva can handle those tones pretty well. I don't know if I need the extra channel.

Although I must admit one three channel amp I would spend for is the Mesa Mark V because it is well under $2000 used.
 
richedie":3u1cs1nd said:
se&en, did you see what the MagicEight wrote about the 20th? He said it fell apart at volume.
In all honesty I was a little hard on it above...but really I don't know if I need a three channel monster head. Maybe if I was a pro, LOL.
Only really heavy stuff I play is maybe Alice in Chains, STP, Tool, APC, Alter Bridge some Metallica, etc. The Shiva can handle those tones pretty well. I don't know if I need the extra channel.

Although I must admit one three channel amp I would spend for is the Mesa Mark V because it is well under $2000 used.
Click to expand...

:confused: Mine doesn't fall apart at volume......I guess I got lucky :lol: :LOL: ...I don't think various pros would be using it right now if they had that problem...
 
richedie":qe0g7tp0 said:
Very true! :)
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I had the volume up at noon yesterday with my band and it held together like a champ, even detuned, power chords stayed very tight on the 'M' excursion. I couldn't say the same about my old 101b. The 20th XTC is definitely my favorite Bogner....my bandmates liked it best as well for what we do. It just swirls with this thick midrange... I'd like to try 34's in the Shiva, though like yours.
 
The early 100b and 101b prior to 1997 are the great ones. Every bit as good as the 20th series....and cheaper used than finding a 20th used! My buddy has a 1995 101b and it is outrageous.
 
Yeah, they those are great, too. Last I checked they were about the same price as a 20th used...at least the 100b. From what I've been told by those who own both, is that the 100b is more refined, while the 20th is more aggressive.
 
You can get a used 94-95 101b for about $2000 or so.
The heavier tones I look for or the heaviest are something like the thick organic tones
Metallica had on Load and the heavy tones Jerry got on the latest Alice in Chains.
My Shiva and Event Horizon seem to be able to get those. Maybe I have no need for an XTC.
 
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