A speaker blend discovery

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ZEN Amps
ZEN Amps
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Like many here I've experimented with speaker blending over the years - it's hit and miss really. You just have to try it, working off specs or assumptions just doesn't cut it.

After many variations, I recently stumbled across the best all-round blend I've ever heard. Honeymoon period maybe, but this cab works great with every amp I throw at it - 2 x G12M 75Hz blackbacks with 2 x 90's Vintage 30's in a X-pattern.

Pulsonic or recent greenbacks don't work as well for this blend, nor do later V30's - and the X-pattern is essential.

The cab is this 1969 straight basketweave. This combo was in a 1960AHW previously (2nd pic) and sounded great, but the straight cab was the missing piece.

Anyway just thought I'd share because it was a a real light-bulb moment at Zen HQ. Interested to hear what others have discovered as their favourite all-time blend?

Marshall 69 1960B cab.jpeg
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Agreed on blending. It’s very hit or miss and hard to predict (crosses even more so IME), but when you get it right it can be amazing

So far my favorite blend has been Redbacks on top with either JBL E120’s or D120F’s on bottom (both are killer). The JBL’s bring the huge lows, punch and highs and the Redbacks up top give the mids and low mid chewiness

Other great blends have been heritage 20w Greenbacks top/JBL D120F’s below, Alnico Gold’s crossed with ‘80’s Vented T75’s and Alnico Gold crossed with Chinese V30’s (didn’t work as well with my UK V30’s). In general I usually prefer whole quads of the same (usually a more cohesive sound IME), but some blends are just right
 
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Cool, I think that’s in my Bogner UberKab, G75’s and V30 in an X. Maybe not G12M’s though, I think G12T 75’s, can’t remember…
 
For years I've enjoyed playing through two identical 4x12s simultaneously. The additional hugeness, bottom end, and thickening nature of such a setup is addicting. Running through only one of those cabinets sounds much smaller of course but it's not without it's charm as well. One cab only sounds crispier with perhaps better pick attack. Hmmm....how could I achieve the best of both worlds?

Well recently I may have stumbled across such a way while swapping speakers. I am still running two 4x12s but now one cab has 16 ohm speakers and the other has 8 ohm speakers of the same model. It seems like this method retains the added fullness of two cabs while largely keeping the crispiness and articulation of one cab. I believe this is likely due to the fact that the 8 and 16 ohm quads of speakers vary in tone and response only slightly, so fewer frequencies are phase cancelled out. It sounds pretty unreal actually.

Technically I'm not sure this qualifies as a pure speaker blend but if it is, it's as subtle a blend as one can possibly have I suppose. For anyone interested in trying this I recommend using two identical cabinets from the same manufacturer (to eliminate that variable). A preamp/stereo power amp setup would be easiest to try this with but it is also doable other ways: a single amp connected to an impedance matching device or a single amp running direct into one cab with it's slave out going into a power amp, Fryette powerstation or second amplifier going into the second cab. You can even run 8 and 16 ohm cabs together (which results in a 5.3 ohm load) off a single amp (set to 4 ohms only) and position yourself or the cabs so you are more in line with the 16 ohm cab since it will receive less power and not be as loud as the 8 ohm one.
 
braintheory said:
Agreed on blending. It’s very hit or miss and hard to predict (crosses even more so IME), but when you get it right it can be amazing

So far my favorite blend has been Redbacks on top with either JBL E120’s or D120F’s on bottom (both are killer). The JBL’s bring the huge lows, punch and highs and the Redbacks up top give the mids and low mid chewiness

Other great blends haven heritage 20w Greenbacks top/JBL D120F’s below, Alnico Gold’s crossed with ‘80’s Vented T75’s and Alnico Gold crossed with Chinese V30’s (didn’t work as well with my UK V30’s). In general I usually prefer whole quads of the same (usually a more cohesive sound IME), but some blends are just right
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Vented 75s blended with UK v30s is a favorite of mine, might be worth trying too
 
DanTravis62 said:
Vented 75s blended with UK v30s is a favorite of mine, might be worth trying too
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I have and remember it being good, but preferred other blends, but a lot of this can also depend on the specific cabs used

Because of the speakers I’m lucky to have now I sold all my gold’s, vented 75’s, UK V30’s and many others years ago. I pretty much only use now either quads or blends of: Altec 417C’s or B’s, JBL D, E or K120’s, 20w Greenbacks, Fane Crescendos or Redbacks. I feel the other speakers I’ve had became obsolete from those ones after all the comparisons. The white voice coil 20w gb and Redbacks I find have my favorite midrange voicings and those other speakers bring the lows and highs not in the cards for celestions along with other good vintage speaker characteristics
 
Yeah blending is hit and miss for me as well. I gigged the V30/75 combo for a while. That’s a classic combo that works. It sounded great with some amps I had and not as great with others. What’s interesting is the amps I didn’t love with the blend sounded good with both V30’s and 75’s on their own.

Another combo that works great is the Weber Ceramic Blue Dog 100w and the Celestion Alnico Cream. This is what’s used in many of the Carstens cabs. Sounds really good with his amps and also my EVH Stealth. They also mic up great together well.
 
I’m not sure how Scumback M75s compare to OG Blackbacks, but I’ve got a pair of Marshall branded V30s in an X with a pair of Scumback M75s and it is my favorite cab of all time. Playing through it just never gets old.
 
ZEN Amps said:
Like many here I've experimented with speaker blending over the years - it's hit and miss really. You just have to try it, working off specs or assumptions just doesn't cut it.

After many variations, I recently stumbled across the best all-round blend I've ever heard. Honeymoon period maybe, but this cab works great with every amp I throw at it - 2 x G12M 75Hz blackbacks with 2 x 90's Vintage 30's in a X-pattern.

Pulsonic or recent greenbacks don't work as well for this blend, nor do later V30's - and the X-pattern is essential.

The cab is this 1969 straight basketweave. This combo was in a 1960AHW previously (2nd pic) and sounded great, but the straight cab was the missing piece.

Anyway just thought I'd share because it was a a real light-bulb moment at Zen HQ. Interested to hear what others have discovered as their favourite all-time blend?

View attachment 284744View attachment 284747
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for letting me know about a result from stuff I’ll never be able to source or afford in my lifetime!! 😂
 
PDC said:
I’m not sure how Scumback M75s compare to OG Blackbacks, but I’ve got a pair of Marshall branded V30s in an X with a pair of Scumback M75s and it is my favorite cab of all time. Playing through it just never gets old.
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Probably pretty well. The only real issue I had with most M's is that the V30 dominates a little too much. You can go Friedman style (M top, V bottom) but then in the room it's not as satisfying.

I think it's the extra muscle the blackback M's have coupled with the less aggressive upper mids of older V30's that just works. For recording it doesn't matter, but for playing out or just being it's very satisfying.

DanTravis62 said:
Vented 75s blended with UK v30s is a favorite of mine, might be worth trying too
Click to expand...
Yeah this is a good combo too - it's so different to a modern T / V mix that it's not funny.

skoora said:
Cool, thanks for letting me know about a result from stuff I’ll never be able to source or afford in my lifetime!! 😂
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What speaker combo do you prefer with your Dumble and Burst?
 
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skoora said:
Cool, thanks for letting me know about a result from stuff I’ll never be able to source or afford in my lifetime!! 😂
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FWIW, I tried this last night with impulse responses, and it's actually a great blend I had never tried before.

🔊
 
It's not quite the same thing, but I've found that when I'm using IR's, it's basically impossible not to blend speakers because finding the right mix is just so much better than any single one. Once you find the right blend, things just seem to click into place and your entire sound becomes less notchy and more even, and also clearer. Love it.

Lately I've been trying out V30's and Creambacks. The Creambacks are too spikey on their own, but the thick mids of the V30's and extra clarity in the highs of the Creambacks really sounds huge.
 
ZEN Amps said:
Yeah this is a good combo too - it's so different to a modern T / V mix that it's not funny.
Click to expand...

The weird thing is the gaslighting you get from Celestion, trying to tell you the speakers are all exactly the same and sound the same, haha.
 
“I think it's the extra muscle the blackback M's have coupled with the less aggressive upper mids of older V30's that just works. For recording it doesn't matter, but for playing out or just being it's very satisfying.”


Someday, I’d really love to have access to some of these true ‘vintage’ speakers to really experience how the sound differs when compared to more current variants.
 
PDC said:
“I think it's the extra muscle the blackback M's have coupled with the less aggressive upper mids of older V30's that just works. For recording it doesn't matter, but for playing out or just being it's very satisfying.”


Someday, I’d really love to have access to some of these true ‘vintage’ speakers to really experience how the sound differs when compared to more current variants.
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Ha, I meant to say 'just being loud' but it ended up as 'just being'. I prefer that, it's more profound and well... Zen.
 
My favorite blend is modern day UK Greenbacks X pattern with modern day UK Greenbacks……lol. Those speakers are king to me and I have blown through almost all Celestions, numerous Scumbacks, and a few Eminence, Fane, and WGS.

The only mix I have left is a Marshall 1960A with Heritage G12-65’s and WGS ET65’s in an X pattern. At low volume, the WGS are louder, brighter, and more articulate. At loud volumes they sound unbelievably similar.
 
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