about Furman power conditioning..

[bzncokr]

Hi, guys..
I'd like to share my experience about this power conditioning and want to hear some of yours!

I use Herbert MKII and don't use any other rig, My band practice place seems to have too much electricity going on, and Somehow
I thought using one of power conditioning products on my herbert would be sweet.(I've never used power conditioning in my life)
I hear a clicking when I turn on the light switch, through my cab. Very annoying.

Since I don't use any processors, I had a compact series, which was AC-215. I was originally thinking a voltage regulator but
I got this one luckily first. Last night, I tried it out and I felt all this power conditioning thing is bs.

as a high gain amp, I think herbert is not that noisy, but anyway after I used AC-215

noise 100 -> noise in between 80~110

(when I don;t play anything ; in overall it got rid of some of the amp noise, but I hear a different low hum noise boosted now, thats the reason I put 80~110.)

but then again, the conditioner affected to the sound also, which I felt weird about it.

Bass, Treble -> intact
Mid range 100 -> Mid range 50
Punch,Dynamic 100-> 40
lamp clicking -> still there.
Overall Volume 100 -> 80
Overall sound became a little drier?

Is it what I should expect? Why does it affect to the sound?
What I don;understand is the mid range, I would not believe that the half of mid-range that I was into is from irregular power state.
cause I usually set my mid pretty high around 3 o'clock, It's not possible to believe that mid at 3 doesn't produce the mid that much.
I really want to hear about this from you whoever are using this kinda product or used it before.
Please don't give me this kinda power conditioning doesn;t make any difference on sound in a good way or bad way except the voltage regulator.
It's proven by my ears that this Ac-215 made my amp totally a different animal.
The only problem is I don't like the sound in result.

I would really appreciate any comment. Thank you.

 

[snowdog]

Well I find it highly unlikely that the Furman changes your sound any.

The first thing I would wonder in this situation is what the actual voltage is coming from whatever outlet you are using. Unfamiliar with that particular model Furman, I looked it up and I see that it does not indicate what the actual voltage is.

Sounds to me like some shady wiring at wherever you practice.

 

[bzncokr]

Ac-215 has the exact same function as furman PL series but has less input and less current capacity (only 2 inputs and 10amp).
well enough for hooking up one herbert head.
I haven't tried my amp out in a different location. but I doubt that the result would be much different.
I wonder if any loss is from a long ac wire of the power conditioner. I have zero clue.

 

[bananaladonpcp]

Power conditioners are almost all bullshit for the most part. Read the box and they all get rid of "hum" about 12,000 hz. yeah... cuz amps dont get that 60hz hum at all..... Buying a power conditioner is just buying an expensive power strip. You might notice alittle difference in clean power (ESPECIALLY if you were using a shitty power strip you bought at walmart before you got the furman) but what you really want is a line regulator. Keeps the voltage and the signal at a consistent 120v AND has an isolated ground that is buffered so no 60hz ground loop hum. If you have one and are still experiencing hum it is not the power from the wall. It's the amp, signal chain, guitar, cab, ect.....

 

[i.ak]

I use Furman AC-210 (similar compact unit, but Euro voltage) without any problems. I actually have my full live-setup powered through it (2 amps, 5 rack unit, MIDI-board, 9V/12V-power supply feeding wireless and some smaller gizmos).

Im pretty sure you have bad electricity and a ground loop causing humm/buzz that alters your tone. They are annoying, but not very complicated to remove (depending on the setup of course) if one just stops and thinks about it for a moment. You said that you do not use any processors so this should be simple.

Lets start with easy one: Is the 'brumm' there if nothing else except guitar and cab are connected? If yes, check is it your amp by trying it in another place - Tubes. If not, add pedals, etc. until you find the source - And make sure all of your equipment are connected to same power socket, preferably to the other output of Furman. Let us know if you still have the problem and please state also your signal chain.

I also think your electricity in the practice room is not proper either, but please do not try to fix it yourself. If you have a possibility, get an electrician to measure the output and consult him/her whether there is anything feasible to be done. New centre and wiring of course being the best alternative, but unless you own the practice place it might not be an available solution.

 

[bzncokr]

I use Furman AC-210 (similar compact unit, but Euro voltage) without any problems. I actually have my full live-setup powered through it (2 amps, 5 rack unit, MIDI-board, 9V/12V-power supply feeding wireless and some smaller gizmos).

Im pretty sure you have bad electricity and a ground loop causing humm/buzz that alters your tone. They are annoying, but not very complicated to remove (depending on the setup of course) if one just stops and thinks about it for a moment. You said that you do not use any processors so this should be simple.

Lets start with easy one: Is the 'brumm' there if nothing else except guitar and cab are connected? If yes, check is it your amp by trying it in another place - Tubes. If not, add pedals, etc. until you find the source - And make sure all of your equipment are connected to same power socket, preferably to the other output of Furman. Let us know if you still have the problem and please state also your signal chain.

I also think your electricity in the practice room is not proper either, but please do not try to fix it yourself. If you have a possibility, get an electrician to measure the output and consult him/her whether there is anything feasible to be done. New centre and wiring of course being the best alternative, but unless you own the practice place it might not be an available solution.

There's no "brumm" at all when it's turned on. I have to say that there's just a different tone of noise when I hook my amp through furman ac-215.
I should try out my amp in a different location. It might take a while to test it though.

btw Could you try A/B your amp with/without your ac-210? just like I did? Please let me know if there's any difference from using it.
If I turn the volume up, the difference was more noticeable for my case.
I know it sounds crazy how this power conditioner can affect the tone?
Anyway Thank you for all your replies.
I should decide soon whether I'll keep using this power conditioner or sell it away.

 

[kahawe]

I am afraid I have to say I am with the Banana on that one. Tried a Furman pl on a lowly Blackmore and there were no audible differences before/after, same noise and everything and the worst part about it is, for all those hundreds of bucks it doesn't even do anything against short drops in voltage which would actually be very useful and a problem you can easily run into... they want you to get the thousand-bucks version for that. You are still stuck in the same loop with everything else. Nothankyouverymuch, learned my lesson. It's a solid power distributor and you get those rack-lights and one power-switch to rule them all but that's about it. I don't see how that is worth all the money. Oh yea and the solid enclosure could probably come in handy should you have to whack anyone.

 

[bananaladonpcp]

I am afraid I have to say I am with the Banana on that one. Tried a Furman pl on a lowly Blackmore and there were no audible differences before/after, same noise and everything and the worst part about it is, for all those hundreds of bucks it doesn't even do anything against short drops in voltage which would actually be very useful and a problem you can easily run into... they want you to get the thousand-bucks version for that. You are still stuck in the same loop with everything else. Nothankyouverymuch, learned my lesson. It's a solid power distributor and you get those rack-lights and one power-switch to rule them all but that's about it. I don't see how that is worth all the money. Oh yea and the solid enclosure could probably come in handy should you have to whack anyone.

They have a line regulator for 550USD. Thats the one you want. Get's rid of power noise and keeps the power steady.

 

[kahawe]

Like the P-1800 AR or rather P-1400 AR E in my case? Goes for over 1k Euros here and in their "ac voltage regulators" for 220-240V they only have two (p 1400 and 6900) unfortunately

 

[brickford]

A Furman p-1400 ar-e is what i need but can't justify that cost (£900), lots of stuff can be bought for that kind of money.
Anyone know of a Voltage regulator (240v) that is equal to the furman at much less cost?

 

[i.ak]

I use Furman AC-210 (similar compact unit, but Euro voltage) without any problems. I actually have my full live-setup powered through it (2 amps, 5 rack unit, MIDI-board, 9V/12V-power supply feeding wireless and some smaller gizmos).

Im pretty sure you have bad electricity and a ground loop causing humm/buzz that alters your tone. They are annoying, but not very complicated to remove (depending on the setup of course) if one just stops and thinks about it for a moment. You said that you do not use any processors so this should be simple.

Lets start with easy one: Is the 'brumm' there if nothing else except guitar and cab are connected? If yes, check is it your amp by trying it in another place - Tubes. If not, add pedals, etc. until you find the source - And make sure all of your equipment are connected to same power socket, preferably to the other output of Furman. Let us know if you still have the problem and please state also your signal chain.

I also think your electricity in the practice room is not proper either, but please do not try to fix it yourself. If you have a possibility, get an electrician to measure the output and consult him/her whether there is anything feasible to be done. New centre and wiring of course being the best alternative, but unless you own the practice place it might not be an available solution.

There's no "brumm" at all when it's turned on. I have to say that there's just a different tone of noise when I hook my amp through furman ac-215.
I should try out my amp in a different location. It might take a while to test it though.

btw Could you try A/B your amp with/without your ac-210? just like I did? Please let me know if there's any difference from using it.
If I turn the volume up, the difference was more noticeable for my case.
I know it sounds crazy how this power conditioner can affect the tone?
Anyway Thank you for all your replies.
I should decide soon whether I'll keep using this power conditioner or sell it away.

I actually ended up doing this last night at our practices before reading your posting - Just because I got very curious on this due to your experiece. My setup has absolutely no difference in tone whether it is powered through Furman or ordinary power cord or distributor (or whatever they are called). Could your unit be a 'lemon' ? And how about the leds for "Protection OK" and "Extreme Voltage" in your unit? Any idea is the safety ground good or connected at all in your rehearsal place's wirings?

 

[bzncokr]

I use Furman AC-210 (similar compact unit, but Euro voltage) without any problems. I actually have my full live-setup powered through it (2 amps, 5 rack unit, MIDI-board, 9V/12V-power supply feeding wireless and some smaller gizmos).

Im pretty sure you have bad electricity and a ground loop causing humm/buzz that alters your tone. They are annoying, but not very complicated to remove (depending on the setup of course) if one just stops and thinks about it for a moment. You said that you do not use any processors so this should be simple.

Lets start with easy one: Is the 'brumm' there if nothing else except guitar and cab are connected? If yes, check is it your amp by trying it in another place - Tubes. If not, add pedals, etc. until you find the source - And make sure all of your equipment are connected to same power socket, preferably to the other output of Furman. Let us know if you still have the problem and please state also your signal chain.

I also think your electricity in the practice room is not proper either, but please do not try to fix it yourself. If you have a possibility, get an electrician to measure the output and consult him/her whether there is anything feasible to be done. New centre and wiring of course being the best alternative, but unless you own the practice place it might not be an available solution.

There's no "brumm" at all when it's turned on. I have to say that there's just a different tone of noise when I hook my amp through furman ac-215.
I should try out my amp in a different location. It might take a while to test it though.

btw Could you try A/B your amp with/without your ac-210? just like I did? Please let me know if there's any difference from using it.
If I turn the volume up, the difference was more noticeable for my case.
I know it sounds crazy how this power conditioner can affect the tone?
Anyway Thank you for all your replies.
I should decide soon whether I'll keep using this power conditioner or sell it away.

I actually ended up doing this last night at our practices before reading your posting - Just because I got very curious on this due to your experiece. My setup has absolutely no difference in tone whether it is powered through Furman or ordinary power cord or distributor (or whatever they are called). Could your unit be a 'lemon' ? And how about the leds for "Protection OK" and "Extreme Voltage" in your unit? Any idea is the safety ground good or connected at all in your rehearsal place's wirings?

My ac-215 unit has a solid Green light on "Protection OK" bulb when I turn on the amp.
and I haven't seen any red light flashing on "Extreme Voltage" bulb. Maybe the unit I have is a lime
I think the safety ground is connected right. I might double check with the owner of the rehearsal place.
I might bring my amp and a speaker to my house(I can already feel the pain in my back ) and hear the difference.
I wish I could record and post the difference of the sound.

 

[bzncokr]

Ok. After trying out in 3 different locations with this Furman power unit (ac-215 as same as PL series, has less input and less amp),
I decided to sell this away.

I think I wasted too much time to justify my purchase. ha. I came to a conclusion that when I used this power conditioner in any location,
my diesel sounded very synthetic, if you know what that means.

Originally I had a noise issue in my band practice place. but in other 2 locations the noise wasn;t there so, I can't really say the power conditioner did something on noise.

The bottom line is that Cutting out my Herbert's Mid-range is unbearable and it happend in 3 different locations. To be accurate, I have to say
it's not just the mid-range, the overall tone became synthetic, monotonic, 2 dimentional, plain, drier, rough, sharp in high frequency?

It's almost like the sound of virtual guitar in computer VS Real guitar. There's no moving energy when I palm mute, there's no bouncing back
from the cab that I've been craving. It's that you use a compressor way too much and there's no dynamic range left moving, no matter how hard I palm mute. the sound really really CALMS evrything DOWN.
I checked with my friend's amp (mesa rectifier), the same fuckin result!

I thought about using this power conditioner thing for my recording gear (rme ufx), when I first got it.
but that's not likely happeing. It's hard to tell at this point that the other furman products are like mine.
but as of now, it's really funny thinking about all the debate online that power conditioner doesn't change the tone.
IT DOES and in a very UNPLEASANT way.

Please let me know ,whoever has any furman unit with Diezel ,please try out just cab-amp-furman to outlet in a live volume, and
post a difference when not using the power conditioner. Thank you.

 

[bananaladonpcp]

it sounds like you got a bad unit man.

 

[i.ak]

Sorry to hear about your problem. To me it sounds very strange and I have no idea what causes this. Naturally this must be in relation to something being altered in the current in side the amp, but without making any measurements its impossible to start making any kind of conclusions. I repeated the A/B test with my own setup without noticing any difference so there must be something special in your case. I can make a recording at some point, but to get it done in good enough quality to justify the results I must drag a bunch of recording stuff to our rehearsal place. Maybe you just did not introduce your fresh American unit to the angry German amp properly and now the cultures collide? Or you accidentially purchased the nu-metal version of your power conditioner which has factory built in "smiley-scoop-EQ" -settings?

I assume you also tried with different power cables? Both of them.

 

[Ventura]

it sounds like you got a bad unit man.

Probably wouldn't happen with a VH4.

 

[MOOSEHEADS]

it sounds like you got a bad unit man.

Probably wouldn't happen with a VH4.

 

[i.ak]

it sounds like you got a bad unit man.

Probably wouldn't happen with a VH4.

Well, my case is to confirm that! No problems with VH4.


...actually, I tried also with Herbert, but did not make any difference - All good with my unit.

 

[bananaladonpcp]

it sounds like you got a bad unit man.

Probably wouldn't happen with a VH4.

 

[shadowdevourer]

Are there so much difference between Furman units? Which one would you recommend? The thing is where I am, I sometimes get electricity cuts as well. Should I consider an uninterruptable power supply instead you think?