Amp for fast cutting riffs

[MontyW]

Hi,

Here is my situation... happy Einstein combo owner for some time, however, most of my music is taking me down the route of fast cutting metal riffs to psychedelic doom. Unfortunately the Einstein does not get there and I never bought it to do this type of material.

I asked a while ago if going down the Einstein head and cab would get me Pantera tones, but the Einstein has its own voice and a cab change won't make the tonal differences I'm looking for.

I'm a fan of Diezel and don't want to look elsewhere for a head, so will the Herbert get me everything from Children of Bodom, Pantera to Electric Wizard?

The thing is I'll have to sell the combo to fund any amp purchases, so what ever amp I decide to get, needs to get darn close to the Einstein's Texas crunch.

 

[slyvren]

Tough call man. Channel 2 of the vh4 is pretty close in my opinion and sometimes I prefer it over my Einstein, but usually not. Other guys prefer channel 2- on the Herbie. Both of those amps can get you close, but won't excel at that crunch tone as much as the Einstein in my opinion. Honestly I'd go for the heavy tone you're after and that all depends on your playing style. Personally, I'm a more percussive player when it comes to heavy riffs. This makes me prefer the VH4 over the Herbert as my primary amp. If you're doing lots of fast cuts, or percussive playing I'd definitely recommend the VH4. It's also really good at hot rodded marshallesque sounds. The Herbie on the other hand seems more like a recto killer. It's a bit saggy (but loads tighter than a lot of amps out there.) It's got the bottom end push and I like it more for lazier style playing. I think it'd excel at doom and what-not. As far as pantera? That's hard to say which'd do better. Dime used solid state randalls for most of his career. Honestly I'd lean more toward a vh4 for pantera. Mine sounds great for riffs like "cowboys" and "respect". Anyways good luck my friend. If you do get a vh4 try to get a 2007+ because they have more gain and cut which sounds like what you need.

 

[MontyW]

Yeah it is a tough call and my head is spinning at the moment. In an ideal world, I'd keep the Einstein combo for all its glorious Texas tones and pull the trigger on a Herbert for my metal needs.

I trend to dig in when playing, so I could be described as a percussive player...

I need to try and spend some time with a vh4 - heard one, but never played this amp. Have spent a little time with a Herbert, but not enough for me to pull the trigger.

 

[steve_k]

Find you a used Herbie. It will get you basic Marshall to Uberschall. With the mid cut it will go modern metal to over the edge. For a metal amp, there is none better than a Herbert. You can dial up your Texas crunch when needed.

Steve

 

[MontyW]

I don't see many Herberts for sale, but I'll certainly be keeping a look out.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Einstein will do tight cutting metal. Keep the channel volume really low like on 1 and blast the master. I have been playing metal on mine for years. Not a pantera tone though.

 

[hunter]

Connect your Einstein to a 4x12 and use Mode3 on Channel1, you will see that it does fast metal riffing very very well.

 

[petereanima]

Connect your Einstein to a 4x12 and use Mode3 on Channel1, you will see that it does fast metal riffing very very well.

This. Imho the Einstein can deliver a very cutting metal tone. I have only played the 100W head through 412 tough, so i would also guess its the combo housing etc. that is making you a bit problems.

Anyway, for psychedoomelic ( ) stuff i would get a Fuzz pedal and use it with the Clean Channel...(Or get a Sunn T-model amp ).

For Pantera sounds...the thing is: The Pantera tone is the best example for what most people call a "solid state" sound. Every Diezel will always sound fuller, deeper, and is not going to have that typical extreme aggressive high-end fizzling thing.

Dont get me wrong - if you play Pantera Riffs through the amp, it will sound amazing - but it will not have the same tone as a Pantera record.

 

[MontyW]

so i would also guess its the combo housing etc. that is making you a bit problems.

Yeah good point - the combo housing is probably contributing a lot to my problem.

I'm not too good at describing tone/sounds... I'd be happy with a fuller sound when basterdizing Pantera - a bit of top end fizz is welcomed, but not excessive amounts. I don't wanna be a Pantera 'clone' - but happy playing their style

 

[DvE]

To me, it seems to be the best option to look at a good cab first.

If this solves your problem - fine. If not, you would need it anyway for a Herbert or a VH4 ;-)
So classical win-win situation

 

[Ventura]

Yep - getting a cab that can offer more SPL will definitely assist in the mix. I mean, the Einy is definitely worthy of some excellent biting metal tone, and bloody fast tracking too... I always tell people to check out Ola's clip showcasing the Einy's metal metal metal side

Get a cab, maybe a 2x12 closed back with some gnarly middy speakers in there (you know it, V30's) and punch it. In the meantime, check this out to reinspire your quest for Einy's metal-tude!!

V.

 

[Zupfgeige]

Hi Monty W!

The Eini of cause will do this thing you need.
But for this a combo isnt righth.
Try a good 4x12 cab with vintage 30 I am shure it will work.

A good cab will change a lot believe me.

Good luck Rolf

 

[Nico]

Combos actually are not quite suited for what you seek, I agree with everybody about getting a good cab. I have an Einstein, and it can do what you ask. Of course it doesn't reach the level of power the Herbert has for that kind of music, but it makes up in other aspects such as a great great crunch....

Anyway its your call, if you think you'd be better of with a Metal amp just sell the Einstein combo and buy a Herbert + K100/V30 cab and go all out metal

 

[MontyW]

Yep - getting a cab that can offer more SPL will definitely assist in the mix. I mean, the Einy is definitely worthy of some excellent biting metal tone, and bloody fast tracking too... I always tell people to check out Ola's clip showcasing the Einy's metal metal metal side

Get a cab, maybe a 2x12 closed back with some gnarly middy speakers in there (you know it, V30's) and punch it. In the meantime, check this out to reinspire your quest for Einy's metal-tude!!

V.

Man that tone will do me 100% so he used a Boogie cab - amazing tones!

Thanks for the advice... I'm happy to have a go with buying a cab and seeing/hearing if that does it for me.

 

[Ventura]

Yep - getting a cab that can offer more SPL will definitely assist in the mix. I mean, the Einy is definitely worthy of some excellent biting metal tone, and bloody fast tracking too... I always tell people to check out Ola's clip showcasing the Einy's metal metal metal side

Get a cab, maybe a 2x12 closed back with some gnarly middy speakers in there (you know it, V30's) and punch it. In the meantime, check this out to reinspire your quest for Einy's metal-tude!!

V.

Man that tone will do me 100% so he used a Boogie cab - amazing tones!

Thanks for the advice... I'm happy to have a go with buying a cab and seeing/hearing if that does it for me.

Yep. Closed cab, either a 2x12 or 4x12 will definitely crank it out and track better than an open backed combo.

V.

 

[VH4paul]

Yep - getting a cab that can offer more SPL will definitely assist in the mix. I mean, the Einy is definitely worthy of some excellent biting metal tone, and bloody fast tracking too... I always tell people to check out Ola's clip showcasing the Einy's metal metal metal side

Get a cab, maybe a 2x12 closed back with some gnarly middy speakers in there (you know it, V30's) and punch it. In the meantime, check this out to reinspire your quest for Einy's metal-tude!!

V.

Man that tone will do me 100% so he used a Boogie cab - amazing tones!

Thanks for the advice... I'm happy to have a go with buying a cab and seeing/hearing if that does it for me.

I have a Stiletto 2x12'' closed back cab which should be very close to the Roadster one he uses on this vid, and I can tell you that it can get really mean...it has that mid growl that I love especially on distorted tones. Gotta say I'm not a metal player (mostly rock/alt. rock) and I don't really like scooped sounds, but I need some "heaviness" ( ) here and there and this cab can definitely nail the tones I like.

Probably not the best choice if you're looking for scooped tones, a tridimensional sound and extreme accuracy on the bass frequencies. It's really up to your needs and tastes...good luck!

 

[MontyW]

Okay... I've been searching the classifieds her in the UK and I have found the following 212 cabs:

Mesa Roadster
Mesa Recifier
Orange closed back V30s
and an ENGL Pro with V30

I'd need to travel quite a bit to try them all, so trying them all isn't an option. So which cab do you think would best suit my scooped metal needs the best?

 

[petereanima]

For a very fast attack, and extra cutting highs, the Engl would fit best in my opinion. Its very "aggressive" sounding. The Orange is also a very cool cab, has way more bottom end than the Engl, but its not as "direct" sounding.

For the sound in the video - dont forget: this is the mic'ed sound with an SM57, which adds an EXTREME amount of high end. The acutal sound would be a bit darker.

 

[MontyW]

For the sound in the video - dont forget: this is the mic'ed sound with an SM57, which adds an EXTREME amount of high end. The acutal sound would be a bit darker.

Yeah I noticed it was mic'd with an SM57.

Cool - the ENGL is the cheapest of the cabs for sale!

 

[thiswaythatway]

Einstein will do tight cutting metal. Keep the channel volume really low like on 1 and blast the master. I have been playing metal on mine for years. Not a pantera tone though.

No Pantera tone in the Einstein? THANK GOD.