ANYONE SWAPPED SPEAKERS IN TM4212 TO VIN 30S?

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AlienRocker

AlienRocker

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Hi,
Its been on my mind to try switching the Elite 80s in my TM4212 combo to Vintage 30s hoping to get a closer sound to what it sounds like when I use my 212 Marshall cab with it. It sounds more like a TM4100 head with a 212 or 412 cab when I use my extension cab. Has anyone here tried using V30s (which is what's in the Egnater 412 Cabs) inside the combo? Like? Not like?
Cheers and thanks
 
Hoping someone has tried Vintage 30s in their Tourmaster combo and replies. I really would love some feedback from someone who has.
 
yes. they're dark, and muddy with this amp, probably for the reason that the presence knob doesn't really have an affect until after 5oclock on the dial, and then, it's only effective from 5-6.

higher rated speakers sound better to my ears on the OD channels...the clean channels really thickened up with v30's. i didnt like them. i find that this amp sounds best with the c80's in the combo...and thats after running texas heats, line 6 2x10s, g12m70, c100k, gt75s, and v30s. you might love them though, i didnt.
 
Nope, dont have the combo, do have the 4100 head and bought an empty TM212 .
After a bit of swapping I finally left it as Vin 30s. I like it.
I also found I like the Eminence Man O War just as well.
What I would really like is to find another empty TM212 and drop Man O Wars in that.

Duff
 
Thanks for the Feedback ... Yeti and Duffman. I keep hearing that the vin 30s are darker and don't have the headroom like the lead 80s. Probably why Egnater only sets up Vin 30s in the 4-12 cab. They sound great but it looks like if you have only 2 speakers and not 4 at this much wattage, You'll lose clarity and tightness with lower wattage speakers. I may try the Celestion GK-100 that alot of metal players are using as the reviews on them look really good both for versatility and getting good tight bottom end and a little bit scooped mids for the rock tones as well while retaining clarity.
 
the k100's are a GREAT match for the TM amp...as it's mid heavy and a tad bright to begin with.

you might even try a k100 and a v30....best of both worlds tonewise...160w power....etc.

i keep meaning to buy a pr of 8 ohm v30 but never get around to it.
 
Cool thanks Yeti ... I still haven't come to terms as to whether I like this amp or not. Yesterday's indoor show it wasn't too bad. However two outdoor shows I had where I had to crank it a little more, the whole thing rattled and the low end was completely loose and flubby (only way I can describe) each staccato low E note was not clear and tight and The lead notes all sounded like if the amp was going to barf any moment. Since the day I bought my new Fender Hot Rod Deluxe only 3 months ago (only 40 watt amp), I dialed in a tone with my overdrive pedal and that was that. NICE! Consistent tone! still great full sound even cranking it! I've been tweaking this TM4212 for over a year and sometimes its nice but most of the time its not and the outdoor shows ... forget it ... it just sounds like mud. Its a shame because it does have great gain even if its on the noisier side than others. :-(
 
does it have the "M" in the beginning of the ser#?

sorry if i asked you b4. if not, then it most likely hasn't been modded from the factory (tightens up bass, increases gain, smooths out high end)

i did my own m mod, and put them all on switches. it was fairly easy. the bass mods are especially noticeable.

how do you have your OD channels set?

channel 1 takes pedals REALLY well.
 
Thanks for your time and reply Yeti .... Yes, its modded. You and I looked at that at one point....
Overdrive settings .... OD1: Gain@2 o-clock, Bass@2 o-clock, Middle@9, Trble@1 o-clock, contour all the way down. Volume@2 and switch set to Modern.
OD2: Gain@1 o-clock, Bass@1 o-clock, Middle@8, Trble@1 o-clock, contour all the way down. Volume@2 and switch set to Modern.
Master volume set at 2 o-clock, Presence set at 9, and Density set between 12 and 2 o-clock.
Doesn't matter if I turn down the density or bass, when I reach a particular volume for outdoor stage, it begins to rattle and get really loose no matter what I do and it stops sounding full. Gets very midrange and just has no definition. I can turn down the gain, still the same and then I have little sustain and drive. So yes I have tried to minimize certain settings and mess with the power grid even putting all channels to 100 to get headroom.
I only tried once to add an additional 2x12 extention cabinet and that sounded like it helped and it was certainly tight and full sounding at a louder level. However I bought this amp to be stand alone and be able to crank! Its been a frustrating trek this whole year with it. :-(
 
Oh also ... as for pedals, channel 1 works better than channel 2 although you get a more full sound out of channel 2 but the overdrive gets real fuzzy if you don't put the treble very low setting. However, its nothing compared to how well my recent Hot Rod Deluxe takes pedals. :-( When I use pedals on channel 1 as well, I have the same problem with the bottom end as I turn the amp up louder (but no where near max 100 watts). It doesn't seem like it should behave that way if it has so much headroom and I'm not maxing it out. :-(
 
As you increase overall volume you should be bringing your density down. Density helps add bass at lower volume. At high volume it will muddy things up if you don't back off it a bit.
 
first thing about the egnater tourmaster amp i want to mention that i removed the rear grate from this amp, and installed the fan to blow directly on the power tubes. i also use another small fan blowing into the back of it at practice. yep, 2 fans. this is paramount..the hotter this amp gets, the mushier it gets (as with a lot of others, but this amp heats up quick at high volumes...and smeeellllllls wondahful). removing the grate gets rid of that boxiness, and lets the amp breath a bit.. i cant tell you to mod your existing fan like i did mine (mines already out of warranty), but, if you take the rear grate off, you'll notice that the rattle will go away a LOT. whatever you do, KEEP some sort of extra decent fan blowing in the back of the amp. i posted a pic of how i modded my "m" mod and my fan mod too. i also posted a pic showing how i have mine hard wired. i got rid of the crappy clip on type speaker cable too, and put a longer, more decent cable on mine....it feeds right up where the old one did.

SETTINGS for the egnater tourmaster amp :

i run density on MAYBE 1 depending on guitar..usually on zero at practice, and we are EXTREMELY loud....we have a huge PA and NO volume constraints at all...

i run my master at 12 oclock
presence backed a hair off full on.
density set really low.
all power grid on 100 watts, all channels on 100 (except clean 2, i have it set to 20 watts).
i keep a multimeter on it for the first hour or so and my bias is set to 132 at idle. ***have you checked your bias?

instead of typing, im just going to post a pic of my current settings.

ch1 (clean 1) you can see i have a bell like clean going on in ch1 (but usually i just keep the volume down and use it as an amp mute, or, when i want i use it for super clean stuff by simply putting the volume back up)

ch2 (clean 2) i have set for an early grindy, ranchy dirt tone, but, it's still pretty clean.
both channels have the contours engaged, but channel 2 i have the contour knob wide open (almost does nothing, but just a small notch)

ch3(OD1) i have set for a pretty damn good GnR appetite type distorted tone...tight, yet thick, but not flubby and kinda tinny, it cuts REALLY well. when i want more distortion, all i have to do is flick the switch up to modern (i like keeping my options open, as you can see). very vocal like with an LP or similiar guitar with humbuckers.

ch4(OD2) this channel, IMHO is the hidden gem of this amp for either rhythm or solo. i HATED this channel at first...while od1 is crank and wank, set and forget ( i haven't touched those knobs for 3 months now, but still have always loved od1), OD2 takes a while to learn how to dial it and more importantly, HOW to play it. too much bass and mids, and she will flub out..the bass knob is key on this channel. and while i do like this channel to be more scooped, it still cuts through our band mix well even without the amp master at 11.
you wont get dimebag like tightness and scoop out of this channel, but you WILL get close to THAT type of scooped tone if you want, but, think more gary holt (exodus) type of tone/saturation; more alive than dime's solid state tones. i dont love a lot of gain, i never have. but, if your amp is "m" modded, it has enough gain. reason i say that, my "m" mod (again) components are all on switches on the back, and without the gain mod switch engaged, i still don't crank my gains...higher gains mean higher saturation at higher volumes...which i dont want. however, my gain mod is a pot that controls how much gain gets fed to each OD channel, as opposed to the egnater m mod that just uses a lower fixed value resistor...

try scooping this channel, and opening up OD1....as it looks to me that you have your settings reversed from how i do....i personally thought OD1 excelled at a more cutting superlead/jcm800/etc distorted tone...and the od2 was better at heavier tones.

i'm not experiencing any flub or mush with my current settings or set of power tubes (i use the 50$ matched quad of ruby tubes from guitar center...the cheapest they have). the stock groove tube 5881s did tend to make the amp feel sluggish and mushy, and sound bland at higher volumes. i remember posting about this about 2 years ago or so.


first thing, i would check your bias on your power tubes, if they're too hot (above 140ish) this amp becomes a garbled, mushy mess, real fast, especially if you aren't keeping the amp cool during operation. the manual tells you how to check that.

if your bias is within recommended range, try those settings that i posted (first take a pic of your settings though, so you can always go back if you hate the new way), even if you crank your gain with the amp master around 11amish (beyond this is just ridiculously loud, and once you hit 2pm on the master dial, you're just adding saturation..trust me :) ), you should notice a difference in the "flub" effect compared to how you had it set.
and, if you see no results, try a new set of power tubes. those rubys sound fine to me at low and high volume. i got lucky, they were the first pair of power tubes i tried aside from the stock 5881. if you need to know which rating i bought, i can tell you that too...i dont remember right now.

just for shits n giggles, i'm going to try your settings with the 5881's this week sometime at low and high volume. i'll let you know how that goes.

get back to me and let me know if any of this works for you.
aside from the vent rattle, and needing to lower your bass, i suspect you may have a high bias and possibly power tube replacement is needed here as a result.....my amp sounds spectacular at low and higher volumes (if i didnt say that before)

on another crappy note though, as i was down there, i plugged in, and noticed my reverb wasnt working again!!! i just put a new fuckin revert tranny in this amp 4 months ago too!!!!!!! i did end up writing a new tune for the band though, so i guess not all is lost.
 

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Yeti ....
Thanks for your time in writing all this! I'm going to try experimenting with it. First thing for sure which you pointed out. Yes, the bias is set higher than spec. I forgot how much. I remember the tech when I got my amp fixed telling me the Egnater spec is 120 on idle which he said is a pretty cold setting and we both wondered why so low. Well maybe that explains it! We set it up around 136 or 140. It made a difference in response and warmth but just a subtle difference which probably becomes overwhelming when the amp is really cranked. I have the density high because the amp get really bright and mid range and loses its full tone spectrum when I get it a little loud and the density compensated. I'll check out your settings and all suggestions and get back to you when I'm done. Thanks so much. That was very kind of you to take the time and help me out!
 
my settings are used in high volume situations, as i said.

i keep my bias around 130. you might have a hot tube.
 
yeti":2eu6c0d3 said:
my settings are used in high volume situations, as i said.

i keep my bias around 130. you might have a hot tube.

Hi Yeti...great post!! With your settings as shown on channel 1, how clean are you (your amp really...not you). Crystal clean? Slight breakup? Crunchy?

Thanks,
Ed
file.php
 
hey man, thanks!

pretty crystal clean....(think nothing else matters, or testify)

ch2 (with the channel power grid set lowest) would be the dirtier of the 2. those settings in ch2 will get you in that heartbreaker (depending on your pickups), or at least beyond a slight breakup.
 
Yeti ... I biased my amp back to 120 where it was previously before the power transformer repair. Tried your settings and in summary, all the channels are too bright and no fullness of tone. Just very bright. The 2 overdrive channels are bright, brittle and harsh. the low end is tight now of course however there is no body to the tone because there is no low end.
Do you have a good fullness of the sound spectrum on your amp with those settings? Maybe its this whole power transformer replacement causing all this dissatisfaction because I was happy with it and getting the tone I loved out of it before the original power transformer quit. I'm trying to see if I can find a happy medium tweaking your settings a bit. However, I'm losing my faith. I've been tweaking this thing way too long already. I have a rule of thumb that if you have to tweak an amp just way too much to find that sound that hits you, then its just not a keeper. I just bought another used amp and used it the other night on a gig as is, old burnt tubes, chinese 12AX7s and all. I tweaked it twice the first set and never touched it again the whole night! Same thing with the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe I bought used as well. I'm going to crank it up again tomorrow morning. If I don't get a smile on my face tomorrow, I'm going to place it on the selling block. :-(
Thanks for all your help. :-)
 
yeah man, my amp is full, big and cutting...at home, i just bump up the density a bit to filll out the sound..but live, the density stays down.

ok, lets back up....did you use the same guitar cable with the other amps that you use with this one?

i DID notice that my amp was thinner and ...."weird" sounding after i put the new PT in...but it corrected after the first few hours of higher than bedroom volume playing (i play lower at home...but sometimes i get to crank up!)

maybe your ears just wont sync up to this amp. you have the combo right?
have you tried putting it through a 4x12 or even 2x12?(sorry if you did and i forgot!)

but, if you're used to a "scooped tone", then yeah, these settings will seem pretty bright (cutting live though.) i have no problems being heard above our other guitarist who uses a Marshall mode 4 <that he scoops, and it turns to total mud when we start playing....>
 
I switched one Elite 80 with a V30 and the difference was incredible! I found the 2 Elite 80's a little bit harsh on the high end fizzyness. The addition of the V30 really smoothed it out and added a nice mid range warmth. Highly recommend the switch.
 
Hey Yeti, thanks for the condolences about my Mom on the other post. She is missed to young and way to early, damn cancer. For all affected by this, I'm sorry.

Can you share the M mod so I can do it without send this thing back CA.
Thanks in advance
 
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