Ballsier Hot rodded marshall tone

[abrackas]

I am currently running a stock Mod 50 with 5881s into an SL2 module and am looking for some tonal suggestions. Plugging a Les Paul straight into head and into a 2x12 Mesa with V30s.

Basically I have to run with the bright setting on 2 so it doesn't sound like there is a blanket over the speakers. The bass is a little more round than I would prefer. It could be tighter/thicker.

Plenty of gain - no problem there. One could single out the cab but my Mesa F-50 with 6l6s definately has thick bass and a sparkly top - what the egnater lacks. Unfortunately my Mesa lacks a marshally sound plus I am looking for more versatitly.

I have listened to clips of other modules and it seems like the egnater stuff doesn't have the highs and lows I am looking for. I can turn the bass/density up but it just gets more rounded/muffled.

I have searched for info on 6550s and the GNR mod but do not know how much these will change the tone relative to what I am looking for. I am also looking for something that cleans up extremely well. Looking for suggestions of all kinds.

 

[bscfo1]

GnR. Read my review, I just compared this mod to an SL2. Really exactly what you're looking for. Thanks go to Eric and Jeff for putting their heads together on this one.

 

[viking22]

Basically I have to run with the bright setting on 2 so it doesn't sound like there is a blanket over the speakers.

That's not normal.Something is wrong there.Pre-amp tubes maybe?

 

[marvcus]

Mesa vertical or horizontal 2x12?

How loud are you playing? What are your SL2 settings and what ballpark tone are you after?

 

[jmgman69]

Basically I have to run with the bright setting on 2 so it doesn't sound like there is a blanket over the speakers.

That's not normal.Something is wrong there.Pre-amp tubes maybe?

After reading this ,I would agree.No blankets for me and I don't care for dark tones.I use the treble knob and rarely use the bright switch on any module

 

[bscfo1]

True what the guys are saying here - especially with the SL2. It should cut well, and be bright and clear enough - bone stock. Something might be wrong with your tubes.

 

[abrackas]

I will try swapping some preamp tubes from my Mesa (various brands -not stock mesa tubes).

The cab is a horizontal 2x12 and I play the SL2 with A&B volumes at noon and the MASTER at 9-10clock. Bass-noon, Middle-10clock, Treble-1clock, Density and Presence are both at noon.

If I get a chance later today I will report back about the preamp tubes and the difference they make.

Essentially I am looking for more of a hi-fi hot marshall sound. As it is now, it's a little too round in the bass and cuts too much of the high frequencies.

 

[bscfo1]

I will try swapping some preamp tubes from my Mesa (various brands -not stock mesa tubes).

The cab is a horizontal 2x12 and I play the SL2 with A&B volumes at noon and the MASTER at 9-10clock. Bass-noon, Middle-10clock, Treble-1clock, Density and Presence are both at noon.

If I get a chance later today I will report back about the preamp tubes and the difference they make.

Essentially I am looking for more of a hi-fi hot marshall sound. As it is now, it's a little too round in the bass and cuts too much of the high frequencies.

Try the tube swap. I will tell you though, with humbuckers (I sometimes play an SG) I usually have to run my treble higher than 1 o'clock to really get it out front on my SL2. I don't use that much density and presence though. Mine are both at 9 o'clock. Too much presense thins it out, and too much density makes it woofy. If you want tight bass and bright highs, get it sounding good with the EQ, then add a little presence and density to touch it up.

Also try different flavors of highs and lows with the switches. Sometimes instead of pushing up a frequency in the EQ, I'll flip the bright or bass switch, then dial some back with the pots if it's too much. Gives a different flavor to me sometimes. I like using the bright switch to give the treble some sizzle and make it "feel" like it has more gain. Try that too. Good luck.

 

[RockStarNick]

GNR will cure what ails ya.

 

[abrackas]

I tried swapping tubes (EHMX/Tung Sol/JAN 5751/JJ) in various combinations and what I got was not nearly as dramatic as what I am looking for.

Would anyone be interested in loaning me a GNR module to see if that works? I would hate to wait for the mod, pay for it, then get it and not be happy with it (worst case scenario).

I could send my Bman to hold in exchange for borrowing. I would also be willing to pay for shipping each way.

 

[3 Mile Stone]

Open up that master volume. 9 Oclock is too low IMO.

 

[king tone]

I think the solution is much simpler than you think.

1. Definitely change out the 5881's for el34 power tubes. 5881 is the same as 6l6 and that is not marshall, way more fender, etc. Wing C are my fave although tung sol el34b are a very close 2nd. I also really prefer tung sol preamp tubes in all slots...they have GREAT clarity. Not to mention I am not that keen on sovtek stuff for the reasons you are speaking of.

2. Try using all tone controls 12 oclock. Bright switch on (bright 1 all the way to the left) bright 2 if you just want a LOT of bite
and run the density at 9 oclock-lower and dial the presence up until you like it, mine is usually 12 oclock or slightly past.

3. Play louder. It works!

My opinion is that Bruce got it WAY right. I feel that for what I like the modules themselves do not need to be modded. Tube tweaks (and possibly bias settings) and tone settings should easily get you what you want. I have had my tone controls straight up (12 oclock) 99% of my play time at all gigs with all guitars with changes only occuring in the presence, density, and of course the tube changes.

 

[EWSEthan]

Not all 5881s are created equal. The Tung Sol 5881s destroy all other 5881s and all El34s Ive heard in the MOD 50.

+1 on GNR as well.

 

[king tone]

Not all 5881s are created equal. The Tung Sol 5881s destroy all other 5881s and all El34s Ive heard in the MOD 50.

+1 on GNR as well.

I am sure you are right on the not created equal part. The TS 5581's may destroy everything but...I think if you are trying to get more of a marshall tone, a key component to that sound, good, bad or otherwise would have to be the use of el34 power tubes...like a marshall.

 

[aeroic]

Not all 5881s are created equal. The Tung Sol 5881s destroy all other 5881s and all El34s Ive heard in the MOD 50.

+1 on GNR as well.

I am sure you are right on the not created equal part. The TS 5581's may destroy everything but...I think if you are trying to get more of a marshall tone, a key component to that sound, good, bad or otherwise would have to be the use of el34 power tubes...like a marshall.

Disagree 100% with you here man. Most of that marshall tone comes from the preamp man. The "feel" comes from the power tubes typically. So...the question for you is...do you think Zakk Wylde has a Marshall tone in his JCM800s? Well he's not using EL34s...he's using 6550s...Neither is Kerry King...Neither was SRV when he used Marshalls. It's a big misnomer that EL34s alone make up a Marshall tone. I personally use 6550s w/ my GNR and am getting GREAT Marshall type of tone. What'd Marshall put in their amps back in the days EL34s were really hard to find in the 80s...6550s or 5881s!

I personally thought my Plexi w/ 6550s smoked the EL34s back when I had one.

 

[king tone]

Not all 5881s are created equal. The Tung Sol 5881s destroy all other 5881s and all El34s Ive heard in the MOD 50.

+1 on GNR as well.

I am sure you are right on the not created equal part. The TS 5581's may destroy everything but...I think if you are trying to get more of a marshall tone, a key component to that sound, good, bad or otherwise would have to be the use of el34 power tubes...like a marshall.

Disagree 100% with you here man. Most of that marshall tone comes from the preamp man. The "feel" comes from the power tubes typically. So...the question for you is...do you think Zakk Wylde has a Marshall tone in his JCM800s? Well he's not using EL34s...he's using 6550s...Neither is Kerry King...Neither was SRV when he used Marshalls. It's a big misnomer that EL34s alone make up a Marshall tone. I personally use 6550s w/ my GNR and am getting GREAT Marshall type of tone. What'd Marshall put in their amps back in the days EL34s were really hard to find in the 80s...6550s or 5881s!

I personally thought my Plexi w/ 6550s smoked the EL34s back when I had one.

I never said that a marshall tone was all power section "alone" and no preamp. I personally do not think that the players you named are really good examples of marshall tone. Zakk is a good player but his tone is so gained with a pedal and emgs that much of the marshall is fading away. Kerry King is very altered in the tone area as well with the scooped death metal thing, and SRV, while great, does not to me sound like a marshall sound either, way more fender-ish. I am saying that the typical marshall layout would have el34's therefore it would be a suggestion to try if you want to complete the equation which WOULD typically be there, regardless of short/small deviations they had at certain times. I am also basing this on the fact that my mod50 sounds the most marshall-like to ME with el34's out of what I have tried. You may have found a great 5881/6550, etc combo that works for you but so far on my end the el 34's are the ones.


I am not here to argue therefore I will not continue this thread. I have just given my two cents and I stand by what I said originally otherwise I would not have said it.

 

[EWSEthan]

Fair enough! You can always use whatever power tubes you prefer!

However, the fact is that you will have much closer Marshall tone with GNR + 5881s than SL2 + EL34s.

The real key to the tone you are looking for is the preamp. You want a GNR.

 

[guitarslinger]

sounds like the channel master volume is too low.

 

[3 Mile Stone]

sounds like the channel master volume is too low.

I believe I mentioned that as in WAY TO LOW. Anything will lack clarity and sound muddy wit the master volume at 9 Oclock.

On the power amp tube, I might agree that the players Eric mention are not the most typical Marshall sound in the world, so point made King Tone, BUT ... the OP is asking how to open up his tone and make it sound less muffled, not how to make it sound like a Marshall. In this regard I agree with Matt and Eric. EL34 will not improve that situation one bit, and Tung Sol 5881 while a relative to 6L6 (but definitely NOT the same thing) will retain awesome Marshallesque cruchisity (you heard me ) and deliver some openess which is what the OP asked for.


Oh and turn that thing up ... what are you living in a a library???

 

[jmgman69]

Fair enough! You can always use whatever power tubes you prefer!

However, the fact is that you will have much closer Marshall tone with GNR + 5881s than SL2 + EL34s.

The real key to the tone you are looking for is the preamp. You want a GNR.

I agree with this dude GnR and even with say 6l6wgc TADS sounds like gritty stanky marshall I love that module