Bogner 20th anniversary xtc 6l6

[dorrus]

Hi there
I have some questions about Bogner amps.
And about 6l6 versus el34 issue.
I think its very overrated and the differences are not that big.

I'm Dorrus from The Netherlands and owner of a Bogner XTC 20th 6l6 and a Shiva Head el34 .
I use a Bogner 2x12 os cab and a Engl 2x12 pro cab. both with Vintage 30's
I play Classic rock and some heavy blues.
Afther reading a lot of forums I'm wondering why I read a lot more about el34 amps instead of 6l6 Bogners.
I never owned a " regular" Bogner 101B so I dont know what they sound like, but afther 30 years of guitar playing and afther owning more than 20 different amps I bought me a xtc 6l6 4 weeks ago, This is the amp for me!
I also Own a Shiva El34 Head from 2008 or so and I can say that the 6l6 XTC sound way more fat, with punching low bottom and roaring mids than my Shiva with el34's.
But than again, these are two different amps and perhaps I should not compare them side by side.
However,my shiva is a great amp to.
But think that 95% of the guitarplayers can't tell just by listening to the sound, iff they hear a XTC 20th with 6l6 or el34 tubes .
When you look at the clips they put on youtube, and you hear a good sound played with a bogner, everytime someone asks the question "is this a el34 or 6l6 amp"?
Why ask ? if you think el34s sound better than you think you allready know the answer ?
The xtc 20th is developed with 6l6 tubes and Bogner allready added more mids, so if you order a el34 version is that becourse you think its a less "gamble" to make the right choice?
Perhaps it whas better if Bogner should bring out just one version of each amp so you don't have to make a choice and
You cant make the wrong expensieve decision.

You guys no this link ? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMqJeIukXtE
Take a look at it and see if you can pick the write tube sound.

Anyway : I'm very satisfied with my tone and hope that everyone is just as happy.
Sorry for my bad english and keep on rocking.

 

[zuel69]

The difference is not in a clip it's in the room with the amp with a guitar in one's hands. After trying and playing countless amps the only one with 6l6's that didn't sound hollow in the mids or feel strange was a Soldano Slo. So I'm afraid I completely disagree with you.

 

[dorrus]

No problem if you disagree with me, Bogner disagree's with you becourse they invented the xtc 20th with 6l6 tubes ( just kiddin')

Anyway, its a personal preferency if you like the el34 or 6l6 tone.
I think the difference is really not that big
Before my XTC I owned a ENGL Special Edition with 6l6 tubes that you can change yourself within 5 minutes from 6l6 to el34's
I tried that and with that amp the differende whas very subtile.
I sold that Engl becourse for me it whas a piece of crap.

 

[psmith68]

I don't contribute much here but I was having exactly the same thoughts as "dorrus" and really questioning if I had done the "right" thing with my 6L6 XTC. So much so that I email Jorg @ Bogner to get his take on why they went with 6L6's after building the 101b around EL34's. Here is what he said:



"The amp was designed with the 6L6 compliments the circuit better, the sozo
and dijon caps have more girth and midrange, EL34 will pronounce that more.
Some people just need to have EL34's no matter what, I had both, people
converting liking it better and others converting back, guess personal
taste, we prefer the 6L6's."

The thing that stands out to me is the designer of the amp prefers 6L6's. IMO opinion, if you buy and amp, you buy it with the trust that the designer knew what he was doing. Otherwise, go with a different amp! Anyway, this is just my contribution to a winless argument! Thanks.

 

[zuel69]

It's all good! Like I mention the SLO is one of my favorite amps but any amp that has a switch or option to toggle between tubes it's EL34's by a landslide for me. The 6l6 shiva I just had went out the door in record time(clean channel was great but the o.d.???)
I haven't tried the latest Bogner 20th's yet so that may be the difference.

 

[dorrus]

I don't contribute much here but I was having exactly the same thoughts as "dorrus" and really questioning if I had done the "right" thing with my 6L6 XTC. So much so that I email Jorg @ Bogner to get his take on why they went with 6L6's after building the 101b around EL34's. Here is what he said: "Quote"

The thing that stands out to me is the designer of the amp prefers 6L6's. IMO opinion, if you buy and amp, you buy it with the trust that the designer knew what he was doing. Otherwise, go with a different amp! Anyway, this is just my contribution to a winless argument! Thanks.

Thanks Psmith68

I think that everyone should bye what he or she thinks is best, but I also think that a lot of people act like sheep.
I know I did, when I bought me a new Engl special edition head wich has outstanding reviews on the internet, so I bought one for 3000 euro's.
(2600 dollars )
For me personaly it was a peace of crap only good for metal ( the reviews gave me the impression it could do it all )and I dont play metal.
So I traded it for a XTC 20th 6l6 and for me its amp heaven!
If you like el34, go for it, and if you like 6l6 go for that, but dont take all the talking for granted and try the amps yourself!
There is a very subtile difference and for me I like the 6l6 over the el34's ( And not just clean but all the way ) .
I also play a Shiva el34 and with that amp I dail out the mids and in/up the lows
But thats me, and we are not all the same ( happy for that )
Rock on !

 

[Everyonesdarling]

Interesting discussion. Was wondering the same. Unfortunately i cannot contribute at all.

 

[RSRD]

The general consensus is that EL34s get punchier mids. 6l6s get more low and high end and less mids. It really depends on the make of an amp. The XTC is a very, very mid range generating amp. So to put 6l6s balances it out better. For me 6L6s in a shiva don't sound nearly as good as the 34s or kt88s. For the XTC i can see why you'd want 6L6s, especially because it would help the clean channel, which is the 'weakest' on the 101bs (havent played the 20th ecstasy so i cant comment on the cleans for that)

Regardless, its all in what the individual wants and needs. So go with what you like and let others play what they like

** Bogner really hit the home run with the 20th series.

 

[Setneck]

I haven't had a chance to play 20th Ann amp, neither EL34 or 6L6, but my XTC was originally 6L6 driven and it didn't sound good, so I converted it to EL34's. Maybe preamp changes done to 20th Ann made an amp more into 6L6's (which tone I like very much in general), but 101A XTC is definitely the amp to avoid IMO.

Regards, Andy

 

[glassjaw7]

Tubes can make quite a big difference when you are playing the amp.

 

[psmith68]

I hate to say this but last week I plugged my 6L6 version into the power amp of a Mesa Royal Atlantic (EL 34's) via the send on the XTC and return on the RA. I was floored at how awesome it sounded and I preferred it to the 6L6's (ugh). It's not necessarily and apples-to-apples comparison as the EL 34 power section on the XTC uses a different transformer and filters than the RA BUT it was an eye opener.

The problem with these amps is you cannot find them anywhere so they're next to impossible to demo.

 

[dorrus]

I haven't had a chance to play 20th Ann amp, neither EL34 or 6L6, but my XTC was originally 6L6 driven and it didn't sound good, so I converted it to EL34's. Maybe preamp changes done to 20th Ann made an amp more into 6L6's (which tone I like very much in general), but 101A XTC is definitely the amp to avoid IMO.

Regards, Andy

Hey Andy

I tested my xtc 6l6 with the el34 poweramp from my Shiva .
This isn't ecactly the same poweramp, but its Bogner and its el34.
The blue channel sounds different ( indeed some more growl and less lows, for some thats better, for some it will be worse) I think the clean channel sucks big time this way and its of no use ( for me personaly that is )
How can you say the 101A XTC is definitely the amp to avoid?
I think it depends on the music you play and what sound you like.
When you want nice cleans perhaps you should better avoid the el34 version .
I know that this is a endless discussion becourse its a matter of taste.
But I also think that every guitar player that bought a Bogner wanted the best that money can buy, thats why I bought me a xtc 6l6 (like 80 % of the customers did.)
Now all I see on the internet are good reviews from the 20 % that bought a el34 version

Regards, Dorrus

 

[dorrus]

I hate to say this but last week I plugged my 6L6 version into the power amp of a Mesa Royal Atlantic (EL 34's) via the send on the XTC and return on the RA. I was floored at how awesome it sounded and I preferred it to the 6L6's (ugh). It's not necessarily and apples-to-apples comparison as the EL 34 power section on the XTC uses a different transformer and filters than the RA BUT it was an eye opener.

The problem with these amps is you cannot find them anywhere so they're next to impossible to demo.

When I use the preamp of the xtc and the poweramp from another amp I plug the cabinet into the poweramp-amp.
The only amp with a cabinet attached to it is the one used as poweramp
So I only use the preamp of the xtc but with no cabinet pluged into that xtc.
Is that safe?

Regards, Dorrus

 

[zuel69]

Dorrus, don't do that! If I'm reading you correctly you don't have a load on your xtc and that's not good. If you have an attenuator of some type impedance matched correctly using it's line out or the xtc's send, thats the way to do it. Hopefully if your using the xtc's send signal gets routed away from the power amp in the serial loop but yea I won't do it.

I hate to say this but last week I plugged my 6L6 version into the power amp of a Mesa Royal Atlantic (EL 34's) via the send on the XTC and return on the RA. I was floored at how awesome it sounded and I preferred it to the 6L6's (ugh). It's not necessarily and apples-to-apples comparison as the EL 34 power section on the XTC uses a different transformer and filters than the RA BUT it was an eye opener.

The problem with these amps is you cannot find them anywhere so they're next to impossible to demo.

When I use the preamp of the xtc and the poweramp from another amp I plug the cabinet into the poweramp-amp.
The only amp with a cabinet attached to it is the one used as poweramp
So I only use the preamp of the xtc but with no cabinet pluged into that xtc.
Is that safe?

Regards, Dorrus