Bogner 20th Shiva in Band Mix (and other Bogners)

[Adambomb]

So for some reason I hear the Shiva and other Bogners sound great in person but don't cut well in a band mix, whats up with this? I haven't had a band practice in a month ever since I got my 20th Shiva modded to EL34's and I LOVE the sound of it and can tell by pumping up the mids it should cut just as good or better than my Mark V or Mini Rec.

Is it just that everyone else's amps aren't as hifi and not as smooth sounding? Or playing with other ear piercing amps? Just wondering if any of you EL34 Shiva owners have had this problem?

Sucks, get a new killer amp, and my band takes a break. Ha

Edit: Bands back jamming again and the amp just kills live.

 

[djpatb]

My standard EL34 Shivas always cut nicely with the band. Other guitarist is using an old Carvin Legacy right now.
Hit the front end of the Shiva with a mid-high output A5 humbucker and all should be well.

 

[rlord1974]

So for some reason I hear the Shiva and other Bogners sound great in person but don't cut well in a band mix

I've had my fair share of Boogers, and I've never experienced this widely discussed phenomenon.

Turn up the mids already!

 

[drewiv]

Turn up the mids already!

^This. The 20th Shiva (mine is KT88) cuts awesome, so does my Ecstasy 101B. The EQ that sounds good in your basement may, or MAY NOT, sound good with a band. First step, turn up the Mids and back off your bass. Work from there.

 

[Adambomb]

Yea I know fellas. I'm just not getting why people have problems getting a Shiva to cut. Mines 20th Anni with EL34s so cuts even better than the KT88s.

 

[Green Pro Am]

I have had a few Bogners (101B, Shiva 20th, Goldfinger) and to many Mesas to list (Mark V among them).

Never experienced any issues with the Shiva cutting. Mine was the Kt88 version. IMO, it killed the Mark.

 

[Adambomb]

I have had a few Bogners (101B, Shiva 20th, Goldfinger) and to many Mesas to list (Mark V among them).

Never experienced any issues with the Shiva cutting. Mine was the Kt88 version. IMO, it killed the Mark.

Yea, I actually sold my Mark V not long after getting my 20th Shiva EL34.

 

[Classic]

I got an EL34 NR Shiva a few months back and have zero issues with cutting through in a band scenario. I play in a band with another guitarist and the Shiva sits perfectly in the mix.

With all things it is dependent on what else is going on especially the amp or sound the other guitarist is after. If you both have a dark sound then you might get lost a little. If you're dark and the other guitarist is brighter then zero issues.

Use the presence dial to bring the amps overall range up or down a bit - or use a different guitar.

 

[Adambomb]

Im the OP and I'm not having any issues with cutting in a band mix. The sound is big and full. Fills up the room nicely with Drums and bass. Just posted to see what others thought about this topic since a few others were having troubles cutting with their Shiva.

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

I borrowed a friend's 20th Shiva, and now have a 101b. The only time I experienced the "blanket syndrome" was while using less quality pedals or cabling. I imagine older tubes might not push all the frequencies as well, but other than that try going straight into the head with a decent cable less than 18' and see if it makes a difference. Turn off the loop, as well in case there are issues with that. It took me a couple of weeks of a/b testing one pedal at a time to figure out which ones killed my XTC's tone. Hope it helps.

 

[Adambomb]

I borrowed a friend's 20th Shiva, and now have a 101b. The only time I experienced the "blanket syndrome" was while using less quality pedals or cabling. I imagine older tubes might not push all the frequencies as well, but other than that try going straight into the head with a decent cable less than 18' and see if it makes a difference. Turn off the loop, as well in case there are issues with that. It took me a couple of weeks of a/b testing one pedal at a time to figure out which ones killed my XTC's tone. Hope it helps.

You know that's very true about the effects loop. The Shiva still sounds great with my pedals plugged in the loop, but with nothing in the loop and some pedals out front, it does cut and sound way way better. I hate that I have some great modulation pedals I'd like to put in the loop, but for a straight up punchy bright tone, plugging straight in just rips better.
I have a G-Labs Loop Level Adaptor and it helps even out the levels between the 20th Shiva's loop. Micing the Shiva on stage you can't tell a difference much if you have pedals in the loop, but if I'm not mic'd and have the amp cranked, I can tell the amp sounds better without the loop at high volumes.

 

[richedie]

So for some reason I hear the Shiva and other Bogners sound great in person but don't cut well in a band mix, whats up with this? I haven't had a band practice in a month ever since I got my 20th Shiva modded to EL34's and I LOVE the sound of it and can tell by pumping up the mids it should cut just as good or better than my Mark V or Mini Rec.

Is it just that everyone else's amps aren't as hifi and not as smooth sounding? Or playing with other ear piercing amps? Just wondering if any of you EL34 Shiva owners have had this problem?

Sucks, get a new killer amp, and my band takes a break. Ha

Edit: Bands back jamming again and the amp just kills live.

My 20th EL34 Shiva, PWE and modded Mesa Dual Rec all cut like a beast.

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

For me it came down to dropping some pedals that suck the tone from my 101b. I'm running the Strymon Timeline, Blue Sky, and Ditto looper in the loop with no problems now. I noticed the same effect in front of the amp, so you must be very careful. IMHO, it is a testament to how well these amps transfer the tone from the guitar. In other words, sh*t in sh*t out. Even the buffer on my Voodoo Labs Pedal switcher killed tone. I'll be getting the RJM mini effects gizmo soon, so hopefully that will solve that issue. I probably just have to many pedals, but I fill in for a handful of bands that cover a lot of ground, so I kind of need them.

Guitar->CAE MC-404->Digitech Whammy 5->VL Pedal Switcher #1, Morpheus Droptune (tone killer, looking for a replacement), Carl Martin Comp/Limiter, Dunlop Volume X->Strymon Mobius set up in pre/post mode, so plugged into front of amp and effects loop->VL Pedal Switcher #2,MXR 10 Band EQ (run flat, just for boost)->Strymon Timeline->Blue Sky->Ditto Looper

I use a Rocktron Midi Raider to control the Pedal switchers. This setup is as close to transparent that I've been able to get so far, but any chance I get I drop the board with just the timeline in the loop. Huge difference.

 

[Adambomb]

So for some reason I hear the Shiva and other Bogners sound great in person but don't cut well in a band mix, whats up with this? I haven't had a band practice in a month ever since I got my 20th Shiva modded to EL34's and I LOVE the sound of it and can tell by pumping up the mids it should cut just as good or better than my Mark V or Mini Rec.

Is it just that everyone else's amps aren't as hifi and not as smooth sounding? Or playing with other ear piercing amps? Just wondering if any of you EL34 Shiva owners have had this problem?

Sucks, get a new killer amp, and my band takes a break. Ha

Edit: Bands back jamming again and the amp just kills live.

My 20th EL34 Shiva, PWE and modded Mesa Dual Rec all cut like a beast.

Oh no here we go... WELL... My 1,2,3,4,5,6 amps cut too. lol jk

 

[Adambomb]

For me it came down to dropping some pedals that suck the tone from my 101b. I'm running the Strymon Timeline, Blue Sky, and Ditto looper in the loop with no problems now. I noticed the same effect in front of the amp, so you must be very careful. IMHO, it is a testament to how well these amps transfer the tone from the guitar. In other words, sh*t in sh*t out. Even the buffer on my Voodoo Labs Pedal switcher killed tone. I'll be getting the RJM mini effects gizmo soon, so hopefully that will solve that issue. I probably just have to many pedals, but I fill in for a handful of bands that cover a lot of ground, so I kind of need them.

Guitar->CAE MC-404->Digitech Whammy 5->VL Pedal Switcher #1, Morpheus Droptune (tone killer, looking for a replacement), Carl Martin Comp/Limiter, Dunlop Volume X->Strymon Mobius set up in pre/post mode, so plugged into front of amp and effects loop->VL Pedal Switcher #2,MXR 10 Band EQ (run flat, just for boost)->Strymon Timeline->Blue Sky->Ditto Looper

I use a Rocktron Midi Raider to control the Pedal switchers. This setup is as close to transparent that I've been able to get so far, but any chance I get I drop the board with just the timeline in the loop. Huge difference.

Yea your pretty much righ one with your analysis on the Shiva and pedals. I have a Timeline and it sounds great too in loop. Are you running the buffer on Timeline? And how long are your cable runs to the loop?

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

It must be just a Bogner related issue, as I see it on my XTC as well. I'm not having issues with the strymon gear, but some other pedals I used to have. I tried an Xotic Ep Booster, which seemed to cause some tonal craziness, especially with the boost lowered, almost like phase cancelation. I'm noticing more issues with stuff up front. I wish Boggy would offer an option on the XTC like the gold finger, where there's a buffer pedal insert loop in front of the preamp. For the record. I'm currently using George L's, and am running a 5' cable to the board and about a 12' cable to the front of the amp and I run about 15' to and from the loop.