Bogner 2x12 OS Helios VS other 2x12 cabs (Friedman & others)

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Silenceborn

Silenceborn

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Hi there,

Well I was looking to find a good tight sounding 2x12 cab to use it with a Friedman Small Box and BE-100 and possibly a Mark Boogie. I have tried the 4x12s and although they sound great live but for recording I don't really need them and these days I'm mostly in the studio recording. 2x12 is versatile enough for me with different speakers and/or different mics for more complex dynamics and mixing flavours.

I have tried couple of 2x12s sp far such as the Orange, Zilla, Boogie horizontal, Marshal 2x12 and others and most of them were loaded with V30s. V30s are a bit easier in the mix as they cut nicely, but I'm not sure if I like to only have that sound. I also tried the Friedman 2x12 (V30s) which sounded good but did not wow me enough. So recently I have heard of the Bogner 2x12 OS cabs and that many people praise them and think they are among the very best 2x12 out there. They are a bit bigger and heavier but based on the demos I saw they seem to have a great, woody, chewy and tight sound to them with a very firm bottom end.

The cab I'm interested to get but can not try before buying is a Bogner 2x12 OS HELIOS edition (exactly the same as the Bogner OS with just a different tolex colour and a mix of 1xV30 and 1xG12M-65 Creamback). I thought on the paper it seems nice, it has seemingly a very nice mixture of speakers that sound great (I never had a Creamback though, only V30s, Greenbacks and some Jensens) and could potentially be a great cab for recording purposes and live with two different but potentially compatible sounding speakers.

However, the tricky part is, ARE THESE two speakers in the Bogner 2x12 OS compliment each other well? I have had bad experiences before where different speakers in a cab (in both 2x12s and 4x12s) were not really working well together and I had to replace the speakers multiple times. So again, anybody here tried a Bogner 2x12 OS loaded with 1xV30 and 1xG12M-65 Creamback?

What are your thoughts on such speaker mixture? And does it work well with Friedman Small Box/BE heads?

BTW I have watched couple of videos on YT about this cab with different heads and most of them sound great, I'm asking here because it's always good to know what people who actually play live/record music think about it.

Cab link for more info: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/212CHelios

Cheers, :cheers:
 
I have my os212 setup with a v30 and m65 creamback. Currently running a friedman jj100 head through it and I love it. Very balanced tone and hits the v30/greenback mix that Jerry uses in his 412s. I would highly recommend this combo for what I do. I'm by no means a meshuggah kind of chugger but this cab stays tight when I go into that kind of stuff on a whim... hope that helps.
 
Greenback / V30 = classic speaker mix.
The matching Friedman 4x12's for the BE100, JJ100 and Smallbox have a V30/Greenback mix. The amps were voiced around these speaker cabs.
M65 Creamback is, as close as you could possibly get, a higher powered G12M25 greenback.
Bogner put this combo in the Helios 2x12 because it sounds great with a Marshall style amp ( The Helios )
I have a V30 / G12M 4x12 that sounds great with all my amps. I used to own a Bogner OS2x12 ( older version ) loaded with a V30 / M65 combo. It sounded fantastic also. The Bogner 2x12's are built like tanks, and among the finest sounding 2x12 cabs available.
If you're sure you don't want the Friedman 4x12, then get the Helios cab :rock:
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I have used many cabs live and especially in recording but Bogner was never among them. About the Friedman amps, what do you guys think about the Friedman 2x12 VS Bogner 2x12 OS? I think so far I narrowed it down to either a Friedman of Bogner but I'm not sure which one sounds better with Friedman heads in general. Friedman 2x12 is obviously designed with the Friedman heads in mind I assume, but again their 2x12 (ported?) cab did not really wow me with a Small Box and BE-100 I have tried.

Also add that the Friedman 2x12 does not have the side handles nor the casters wheels. Add to that Bogner can become an open-back cab with the optional rear back panels. Friedman does not have these options but is about $100 more expensive as well ^^ I just don't get it...

On the other hand I also heard that the Bogner 2x12 OS could be a bit overly bassy or boomy sometimes becasue of it being oversized. Is that true? Also, does mixing speakers 1xV30 and 1xG12M-65 Creamback adds to the extra low-end or boominess? Again in the demos Bogner sounds awesome but I'm a little bit worried how it cuts through the mix.

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@GOHOINC, thanks mate, that is great to hear you also use the same cab with the same speaker! If it sounds good with JJ it can't sound bad with Small Box or BE-100 either.

@fusedbrain, Great! well I already have 4x12 Marshals, Boogies and Achillies (Melbourne handmade cabs) so I'm covered for the 4x12s. However, 4x12s are a pain in the backdoor when moving stuff around and honestly for recording there is almost no difference unless you think the difference for the room mics is significant which I don't think it is. I honestly think 2x12s are a great medium for all purposes. But of course nothing beats the thump of a 4x12. Thanks!
 
I have tried both the V30 mixed with G12M65 and prefer the 2 V30 setup. But thats an easy swap depending on your preference. I though that some of the Friedman cabs are ported which are great live, but I think a sealed cab is better for recording. You cannot go wrong with the Bogner OS. It is the hugest sounding 2x12 I have ever played.

First Clip is my BE100 clone through and all V30 OS

Second Clip is CCV Clone through same cab
 
Yeah I agree about moving 4x12's around.
I didn't find the Bogner OS cab I had boomy at all. It sounded big, but the frequency response seemed to be very even.
The casters on the Bogner cab are a very cool, easily removable design. None of the Friedman cabs come with casters.
The Bogner cab I had also had a very robust, removable top handle, in addition to the 2 side handles. So if you're up to the task, you can carry it with one hand.
 
The Creamback M65 is quite a bit less efficient than a V30 (check the specs), so is quieter and breaks up earlier. That’s fine in a vertical split like in a 4x12 but not so good in a horizontal mix of a 2x12.
The 65 is nothing like a modern Greenback. Pre-Rola, maybe, but that’s not a sound I enjoy.
I also have the Friedman GB/V30 4x12 to compare to.
I run the Friedman 2x12 with a V30 and a Creamback H75. They are close in efficiency and a good pairing. The cab is fine, but not enormous sounding as it is just half of a 4x12 with a small port. A better cab is the Suhr PT 2x12. It comes with a pair of the C75s and is a great balanced cab. I've had many of the high end 2x12s and the Suhr is the best sounding of them all.
 
I have a smallbox and a friedman 2x12 that I got at a later date used. Honestly my favorite cab with the smallbox or DS for that matter is the open 1x12 with the 65 watt cream back M. I did NOT like the v 30s in the 2x12. again probably in the minority and heard lots of great clips with people making that combo sound great. I put Chinese greenbacks in the friedman 2x12 and have to say it sounds awesome. maybe a bit more in the M camp but totally works for me.
 
I like the combo of the H75 Creamback paired with the V30... the H75 is brighter, and has more high-end cut to it... not as dark/smooth as M65.

Bogner builds a fine cabinet. I've owned many of their 4X12s.
 
I’ve had quite a few 212 cabs over the past years. My last few were a Boogie 212, EVH 212, Bogner 212CB, and a Friedman 212.

The boogie was great with boogie amps. Did not like it with other amps. Strange but true.
The EVH cab was an ok build, not great. It sounded great when I pulled the stock speakers and put in a couple of Lynchbacks
The Bogner 212CB was a very nice cabinet. I found it pretty easy to move around and it had a nice bottom end.
I currently own the Friedman 212. I just bought it new last week and gigged with it this past Saturday night at a club. I find it to be a bit on the heavy side but manageable. I believe they didn’t put handles on it due to the change in tone of the cab when you do that. Either way, I love the tilted baffle on it and the port. It is a nice punchy cab with great nice bottom end with my new BE-50 head. I find it to be clearer sounding than my 212CB was. Probably due to the insulation that they put in the Bogner. Either way, no complaints here.
 
Thanks everyone. @PBGas, well the Bogner 2x12 OS also has a tilted baffle on it and is not horizontal either. To my experience I always seem to have a problem with horizontal 2x12s that it's not easy to hear them live sometimes. I'm a little bit confused now as in the demo videos I pretty much prefer the Bogner sound than the Friedman or in fact any other 2x12s to be honest (although most of them are loaded with 2xV30s). Watch these, especially the first one which is a direct comparison between the two with a Friedman JJ head:

1- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-4SkontA8A (Friedman 2x12 VS Bogner 2x12 OS - A is Bogner, B is Friedman BTW)

2- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuJ_XOK1w_g (Mesa Horizontal 212 vs Bogner Oversize 212 2x12)

3- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C2WPbfaBoU (Bogner 2x12 OS vs Avatar 2x12)

4- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-rfamAxSqw (another MESA 2x12 Horizontal Recto vs. BOGNER 2x12 Oversized)
 
Silenceborn":29ng50qn said:
well the Bogner 2x12 OS also has a tilted baffle on it and is not horizontal either. To my experience I always seem to have a problem with horizontal 2x12s that it's not easy to hear them live sometimes.
Click to expand...
it's not vertical, so we are out of options
What does that there Aussie dictionary say about the word 'horizontal' then?

horizontal | hɒrɪˈzɒnt(ə)l |

After too many XXXX, when you can't find your mate in the pub, check out back
by the dunny, where you'll find him on the floor, horizontal
 
I can't really help but I just wanted to add some comments.

The Bogner is absolutely the consensus. I have followed the 2x12 threads for years and Bogner is definitely the #1 choice among Rig Talk.

Regarding boomy, idk. I have never played the Bogner 2x12 I have a Mills. But not all OS cabs are boomy. In fact I have a Mills 4x12 that is very OS and is one of the tightest cabs on the low end I have tried. Plus if it was Boomy I guarantee I would have seen that posted dozens of times and this is literally the first time I have seen that about the Bogner. I would put my money on someone just assuming it is boomy due to it being OS.

Regarding the Friedman not having casters. Idk I think that is a bad idea. It is only 50 ish pounds so I guess that is not so bad but I do not think I would ever buy a cab without casters. Maybe it is part of the design because it sounds better without them? Possibly, I mean the guy knows good tone but the inconvenience ehhh no thanks.

I'm sure JJ has lots of roadies to carry him on their shoulders to the stage but most people do not have that luxury and I like whatever is left of my back.

If I was in this position and not able to try before I buy i would probably get the Bogner.
 
FWIW, i have a Friedman 212 and a Friedman 412. Both are loaded with H75 Creambacks (I despise v30's).

Don't let my avatar fool you. I do NOT use them together. It gets hard to EQ correctly using both cabs. That was for a picture only.

The 212 is way darker sounding than the 412 and requires a hefty re-EQ of the amp (presence & treble up, mids down), but it is super tight sounding in the low end compared to other 212's i've owned. It is vented in the back, which helps. All the correct frequencies are there. I love that thing

Edit: I put casters on my 412. It's not a big deal (like $12 at Harbor Freight) and the sound wasn't affected at all. or at least enough for me to notice. I feel the 212 is fine without casters to move around, but YMMV
 
+1 on Friedman being too cheap to have castors on their cabs
The price they charge, they should have built-in sockets and included wheels
It is not a great reflection on the brand

I bought the Mesa large set for my 4x12, but resented having to do so
 
Sick Squid":2ugampr0 said:
+1 on Friedman being too cheap to have castors on their cabs
The price they charge, they should have built-in sockets and included wheels
It is not a great reflection on the brand

I bought the Mesa large set for my 4x12, but resented having to do so
Click to expand...

It's not a cost issue. It's what Friedman prefers tonally.

In my case, my jam spot is on a concrete floor and there isn't much difference between when i had no casters and when i added them. on a stage, it's probably a lot different, but I'm usually mic'ed anyway, so i don't care.

Other brands don't do casters as well. Orange comes to mind.
 
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