Bogner Blanket & Evolution

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
A

Anonymous

Guest
As I've stated in other threads, my 101B suffers from a pretty bad case of the Bogner Blanket, which means, quoting some dude on the interwebz "it feels like you have the best tone in the world, but it sounds like it's coming from 3 feet behind your speaker cab".
So even using V30 speakers to cut more, tuning the Presence and B1-B2 switches to sound more "in your face" without having to ice pickness, it still sounds muffled
That's when I strated thinking about the Dimarzio Evolution.
Now I hate that pickup, it sucked and sounded weird when I had it
But the pickup was designed back when Vai was using a 101B, and I loved his tone back then
The Evolution EQ, more mids and highs, with increased presence, feels like it could complement the XTC really nicely.
What do you guys think?
 
It's been awhile since I've had a 101b, but try T excursion, turn your mids up above 1 o'clock and presence up. B1 is usually my favorite setting for those switches.
 
the evolution sounds pretty good with the 101b, though i prefer the evo2.
btw how did you tune B1&2 , just change the 2 caps?
 
No, I'm not touching that board, even if it's just clipping caps, I don't trust myself and would rather keep things stock
I just meant tweaking, B1 on all channels, N is just too dark, B2 is just too bright

I was just thinking the Evo pickup was designed with the XTC and Jem in mind
 
Howdy, I have a 101b, and 10 other super high end amps. But I will never part with my 101 b. I have figured out how to open that amp right on up. Turn the structure switch to (low) and AND START OVER. These changes made the amp cut thru in Live situations, and made a world of difference to me.

I know you are going to say. I want more gain on tap right? The high structure is where the compression comes in, and is what you refer to as the (3FEET). The amp opens up and breaths on LOW STRUCTURE. You can still dime the gain knob to where it feels right. And these amps want to be turned up! So turn the volume UP! Another thing that works well is to turn the amp's VOLUME KNOB'S for ALL the channels up to say 5 OR 6, and then use the gain knob as your volume.

On the clean channel it really lets the clean channel come out if you turn the volume knob All the way up and use the gain knob as your volume. Yes totally ass backwards. Please try this, and adjust the rest of the switches and presence and tell me if this works for you?
 
ocgeardisorder":1pti680j said:
Howdy, I have a 101b, and 10 other super high end amps. But I will never part with my 101 b. I have figured out how to open that amp right on up. Turn the structure switch to (low) and AND START OVER. These changes made the amp cut thru in Live situations, and made a world of difference to me.

I know you are going to say. I want more gain on tap right? The high structure is where the compression comes in, and is what you refer to as the (3FEET). The amp opens up and breaths on LOW STRUCTURE. You can still dime the gain knob to where it feels right. And these amps want to be turned up! So turn the volume UP! Another thing that works well is to turn the amp's VOLUME KNOB'S for ALL the channels up to say 5 OR 6, and then use the gain knob as your volume.

On the clean channel it really lets the clean channel come out if you turn the volume knob All the way up and use the gain knob as your volume. Yes totally ass backwards. Please try this, and adjust the rest of the switches and presence and tell me if this works for you?
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for the tips!
I already use the gain control on the green channel as a master volume (also do this on my Uberschall's clean channel), but never thought about doing so on the other channels
I also don't use the loop, would it help engaging the loop, turning up the channel volumes and controling main volume with the back panel master?
 
I never use mine either. I just don't use effects. But how would the guitar cable get plugged in to the amp at that point? Could you tell me step by step how to do that? I would like to see how that sounds also.
 
Business":1zuw77tt said:
As I've stated in other threads, my 101B suffers from a pretty bad case of the Bogner Blanket
Click to expand...
As stated many times, Bogner blanket effect comes from Audio Treble taper and C40 470pf Excursion cap. I am not so familiar with Evo tone but it may be difficult to level the blanket effect only with changing pickup. XTC plays great solo, but in a band context, especially while playing hardrock tones, it often collapses in the mix... :/

Note that Vai's tone - being solo player - is actually mostly lead tone now. To me, his rhythm tone, using 101B or Carvin, isn't exemplary. While playing in bands (Lee Roth, Whitesnake) he used different amps (modded Marshall, Mesa) and those times he sounded great in a band context. I doubt He could achieve the same using Legacy... most probably he'd choose different amp.

Changing the Treble taper to linear and removing C40 cap isn't deep mod. And only that would really bring the tone back on surface without losing Bogner flavour. Think about that.

Otherwise, keep Your Middle, Treble & Presence not lower than about 2 o'clock and use Excursion T.


Regards, Andy :)
 
My 101 b came from the NAMM show in 2006 Dark Purple with a wheat grill, and matching cab. I had played thru several before I got it. Every person who has played through it said it was very open sounding, and that was even on the high gain structure. I still prefer the LOW gain structure though. Just something totally different in tone going on. It never sounded like a blanket was on it, or distant on either structure. This head is NOT a stock 101b, and it was in the Bogner Booth. I am not sure what this thing is, it says 101b but sounds way to open to be a 101b. I really think Bogner tweaks and mods the stuff for the show. And this is why.....

I bought a second one brand new, about 1 month later because I loved it that much. Exact same rig, head and cab. And when the second one got here it sounded NOTHING like the NAMM head. I checked to see if the tubes were the same. They were all the same. Both heads were dialed in exactly the same and still the NAMM head sounded quite different than the other one. Even my wife who does not play, said why do they sound different. So after a month or so I decided that I needed to look under the hood. And there it was. A bunch of the components were different in the NAMM head. The caps, some resistors, The board was not the same either in certain places? Components were in different order? Not sure what that is about?

I sold the new second head and cab, and held on to the NAMM head and cab. It does not have a serial # Instead it has symbols? What that means I am not sure. I was told it was because it is not a production model. All I know is it sounds like a million bucks. Live in the bedroom wherever! Just Stellar!
 
i know ths is a long shot but do you have any pics of the guts or notes on whats different? im looking to do some mods to mine. feel free to pm me with any info. :)
 
I don't at the moment, but when I get back from Texas I will try and get some asap. I was told it was the wind of the transformer but I saw the difference on the board, from one amp to the other. The components were different, and in different order. I am not an amp guru by any means but it was more obvious they were different.


pedal builder":2ilaqays said:
i know ths is a long shot but do you have any pics of the guts or notes on whats different? im looking to do some mods to mine. feel free to pm me with any info. :)
Click to expand...
 
ocgeardisorder":1tn2hef9 said:
It does not have a serial # Instead it has symbols? What that means I am not sure. I was told it was because it is not a production model.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, all of the 101Bs have symbols for serial #. You can do a search on the Bogner Amp Forum to see the what each symbol translates to. http://bognerampforum.informe.com/ecstasy-df2.html

For the OP: I've been gigging with a 101B for well over a decade and love it. There are times where I jones for something a little more raw or cutting, but overall, it's served me well. Standing on-axis, I couldn't ask for a better tone. Off-axis it gets dark/muffled pretty quick, but I know what the mic is picking up. It's very VHII sounding. Just enough grind and chewiness to the feel without being ear fatiguing. Great suggestions from everyone!

I gravitated to brighter, med-hot pickups over the years too. I like a slightly spiky top end, which helps give a little more raw feel. The Suhr Aldrich, Duncan 59, and Dimarzio Super D are three of my favorites. I know lots of players rag on the Super D, but I love that thing through the XTC. The ceramic mag really brings the high-mids and highs out. The Duncan Custom 5 is a great one too, but the top end is a little rounder. For lower output, without going to single coils or P90s, a humbucker with an asymmetric wind like the Duncan '78 is a great match as well.

Good luck with the search!
 
Business":1wpuydgs said:
As I've stated in other threads, my 101B suffers from a pretty bad case of the Bogner Blanket, which means, quoting some dude on the interwebz "it feels like you have the best tone in the world, but it sounds like it's coming from 3 feet behind your speaker cab".
So even using V30 speakers to cut more, tuning the Presence and B1-B2 switches to sound more "in your face" without having to ice pickness, it still sounds muffled
That's when I strated thinking about the Dimarzio Evolution.
Now I hate that pickup, it sucked and sounded weird when I had it
But the pickup was designed back when Vai was using a 101B, and I loved his tone back then
The Evolution EQ, more mids and highs, with increased presence, feels like it could complement the XTC really nicely.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Vai did not play a 101b, he played a 100b, which I just happen to own one. They sound a lot more open and "Classic" Marshall than the 101b, a 20th is closer to a 100b in sound. I've owned it for about 9 years now and played quite a few guitars and cabs with it. Here's my findings as to what sounds best to me. I like GB 25 RI speakers, not V30s'. I have a Les Paul classic with a 500t in the bridge which always cuts and sounds amazing. Vai plays an Alder body guitar, Alder sounds great through my XTC. Generally hot pickups don't sound that good. Settings that work best for me are Excursion-center, pre eqs'-Bright, Modern amp setting and eq's around noon, presence backed off to about 10:00 and bass bumped up to about 2:00. My amp cuts like a mofo, if I set any setting on the 'Dark" position I get "Blanket" issues.
 
I have personally played 4 101b heads that all had regular numeral serial #'s. I saw one for sale on e-bay with all symbols it was a 100 b. Then this one which has all symbols. Not all have symbols that is for sure. Most have serial numerals.
 
Are you plugging the guitar straight into the head? What kind of cable are you using? I noticed real quick that my 101b is very sensitive to such things. Using an 8' George L's cable straight in, the tone was just amazing. I plugged my pedalboard in, and all of a sudden I had the blanket syndrome. After doing painstaking testing for a couple of weeks, I was able to find the culprits. I had to start with one pedal at a time, a/b testing to find them. The same pedals in front of my super reverb sounded fine, but that Bogner is a whole other beast. If you put low quality cabling or pedals, it will show. Not sure if this is relevant, but thought I'd share. Hope all is well.
 
Thank you guys for all the replies
I guess everyone has his own way of dialing this amp ;)
Pickups, speakers, body woods, pedals, signal chains, there's a ton of different stuff I can experiment with in the next few weeks to make that thing push forward
 
Business":2y709llr said:
Pickups, speakers, body woods, pedals, signal chains, there's a ton of different stuff I can experiment with in the next few weeks to make that thing push forward
Click to expand...

And if none of it works, you can always push it out the.....

door.jpg


:lol: :LOL:
 
Just wanted to elaborate on the pick ups. I find Hot pickups compress and are generally dark sounding and congested. A medium output pickup sounds more open and cutting.
 
Exactly. Think about how you want to get your gain...from the pickups or from the amp and make adjustments accordingly. The 101b and virtually any high power amp needs to get that power section cooking and you can wind back the gain after doing so...too much gain or bass is trouble in a mix, but I'm sure you know this. Reinhold prefers T excursion at volume as do I for the most part. Hope this helps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top