Bogner Shiva and XTC?

[richedie]

What do you guys think sounds closest to these amps? I am finding both the SL2 and EG3/4 can get really close. The EG3/4 seems darker like the Shiva.

 

[bscfo1]

I agree - EG3/4 is pretty close. SL2 has a little more "edge." If I was sharing guitar duties with a guy playing a Shiva, I'd probably play my SL2. Isn't this module thing great?

 

[richedie]

I agree - EG3/4 is pretty close. SL2 has a little more "edge." If I was sharing guitar duties with a guy playing a Shiva, I'd probably play my SL2. Isn't this module thing great?

Yep, and you can change the power tubes to get it even closer to the original. My Mod 50 sounds way different with the EG3/4 than with the Erect and 5881s.

However, a rig for me to have more modules available and to be able to change power tube configurations on the fly would be nice - like the Randall power amps.

 

[RockStarNick]

Being a former Shiva owner, I can say SL, SL2 come really close. EG3/4 comes closer, if you do that "cap mod" changing it from 1000pf to something lower. Keeps the low mids of the EG3/4, but bumps up the presence.

I'd say perhaps the most important thing is to make sure the power section is cooking. That's when my Shiva sounded like a real Bogner... when it was really working hard.

That, and perhaps load up your chassis and modules with Chinese tubes. I have no idea why, but my Shiva loved those tubes. I think Reinhold designs his amps around those tubes. They are sproingy and glassy, but not in a bad way.

 

[EWSEthan]

Yeah definitely SL2 with chinese tubes.

 

[richedie]

I have JJ 83s and 803s in the chassis. My EG3/4 and SL2 have JJ 803 in V1 with an 83 in V2.

What specific Chinese tubes are the recommended?

 

[RockStarNick]

Well, they're all coming out of the same factory, I believe. People refer to them as C9 - the 9th Generation Chinese tubes, out of the Shuguang factory.

I've tried some different ones from different companies (i.e. same tubes, labeled differently), and varying degrees of gain (from 95 to 110). They all sound similar, but the higher gain ones sound rounder on top.

 

[richedie]

Nikc, how do you know they are the same tubes if labeled differently? Is there something distinctive or does it say Shuguang.

 

[RockStarNick]

The chinese preamp tubes have the silver metal things next to the plates, like this:

From what i've heard (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) there's only one factory in China making 12Ax7s, and that's the Shuguang one.

 

[hotlicks2go]

I recommend branded 12AX7B.

 

[richedie]

Yeah definitely SL2 with chinese tubes.

Where is the best place to get those tubes to be sure I get the right ones? Either that or maybe I will chance the HBE mod.

 

[EWSEthan]

Yeah definitely SL2 with chinese tubes.

Where is the best place to get those tubes to be sure I get the right ones? Either that or maybe I will chance the HBE mod.

This is what I got:
http://www.boiaudioworks.com/12AX7BSilv ... atchedPair

 

[richedie]

Thanks, you rock.

 

[EWSEthan]

Thanks, you rock.

No worries! It was so hard to find that place. Alot of places have Chinese but you dont know what you are getting because they dont really specify.

 

[richedie]

How about an XTC? I am a big Bogner fan. I was thinking I could have Dave mod an EG5 to sound closer to an XTC.

If not that....something more German sounding, Diesel, etc.

 

[EWSEthan]

I still think its SL2 with chinese preamp tubes. The thing about the SL2 is that it is smoother and doesnt have that grind that the Bogners have. Otherwise, I think the voicing is similar.

 

[richedie]

I still think its SL2 with chinese preamp tubes. The thing about the SL2 is that it is smoother and doesnt have that grind that the Bogners have. Otherwise, I think the voicing is similar.

Good points man, but I think the EG3/4 has a better mid grind than the SL2. With the cap mod, it could be it.

 

[fish01]

The EG3/4 sounds close shiva to me. But, with more gain on tap and a lot tighter.

 

[muudrock]

The EG3/4 sounds close shiva to me. But, with more gain on tap and a lot tighter.

+1.
The EG3/4 with cap changed to 250uf and chinese tube in V1 is very close the XTC sound. The chinese tubes give the feel a little sag like the Bogner and the cap change adds a little sizzle to top end.

 

[richedie]

I am doing the 500 cap swap in the 3/4.

I thoght the XTC was more modern sounding? The shiva is more Marshall/vintage, no?