Bogner Shiva Channel 1 - Mild Breakup???

[ttosh]

I have not got to hear a Shiva in person. I am not a big fan of the KT88's so for a new Shiva I would probably go to EL34 or 6550s. I read somewhere on a recent post that the Shiva channel one will not break up at all, is this true?

I had thought it would be a cool amp to have channel one breakup mildly and hit it with some pedals, then have channel two for more of a lead channel.

If what I read was true then channel 1 would have to be clean only and channel 2 could be a breakup channel and pushed with pedals for leads....

Also how does the Shiva channel 2 respond to the guitars volume knob?

 

[steve_k]

It is pretty tight and doesn't break up much at all, nothing like the green channel of an XTC. You could hit it with something like an AC Booster or something to take it up a notch.

 

[ttosh]

It is pretty tight and doesn't break up much at all, nothing like the green channel of an XTC. You could hit it with something like an AC Booster or something to take it up a notch.

Thanks!! I think moving the Fish and 20th XTC was my two worst gear decisions ever. Both times were to get a Herbert. The Fish was my first move for a Herbert, then my 20th XTC was the second. I miss both of them a lot. Did not need all the flexibility of the 20th XTC which is why I was thinking Shiva since I really dig the Bogner tone. The more I hear the CCV the less appealing it is to me, something in all the clips I hear, a certain tightness/stiffness no matter what the settings are. Dave's last clip when he went through all the gain structures was a great demo, I loved it but I heard it and decided for that cash it is not for me. I am paying off some debt right now and not gigging at all. I have time to wait it out and decide what I am going to get. I have always dug the Bogner tone overall. I think the 20th XTC edged out the Fish for the overall win, so I was hoping the Shiva was a slimmed down version green/blue of the XTC with no red channel. Sounds like that is not the case. Also I had nothing against the red channel on the 20th, some really compressed creamy lead tones there. Just so many options that are good/bad and love/hate relationship for me......

 

[hunter]

I agree the clean of the standard Shiva doesn't break up.

You could use an RC booster which works great with it.

Or you keep Ch2 low gain and get your hairy cleans from there using the guitar volume. Indeed Ch2 reacts AMAZING to the guitar volume.
I'd go classic Shiva though, not 20th.

 

[ttosh]

I agree the clean of the standard Shiva doesn't break up.

You could use an RC booster which works great with it.

Or you keep Ch2 low gain and get your hairy cleans from there using the guitar volume. Indeed Ch2 reacts AMAZING to the guitar volume.
I'd go classic Shiva though, not 20th.

Is the reason for classic Shiva the tube choice or something else?

 

[hunter]

I agree the clean of the standard Shiva doesn't break up.

You could use an RC booster which works great with it.

Or you keep Ch2 low gain and get your hairy cleans from there using the guitar volume. Indeed Ch2 reacts AMAZING to the guitar volume.
I'd go classic Shiva though, not 20th.

Is the reason for classic Shiva the tube choice or something else?

I find the 20th to be more treble and the classic one more upper and lower mids, more Marshall. Also as it has a bit more of a thicker voicing, it works better with pedals and guitar volume IMO. That is from clips of the 20th though, I never played one. But I miss my Shiva, so if I'd get one, I'd get the old one (with bright switches, so second series).

 

[steve_k]

Well, the 20th Shiva's channel 2 is where its at. The gain is huge and tight. Think JCM 800 gain without some of the fizz, and even punchier. This with 6550's though. Don't expect the regular Shiva to have the same. Nothing more to say about the clean really, other than it is squeaky clean and tight.

Steve

 

[glip22]

The clean channel also has a boost like the OD channel. With the boost on it breaks up some.
I would definitely call it mild overdrive.

 

[LP Freak]

A volume and MV would be cool on the clean channel or a switch that adds some slight clipping.

 

[ttosh]

A volume and MV would be cool on the clean channel or a switch that adds some slight clipping.

Wont a good clean boost do the same? Or not because of where the clipping would be added in the signal path?

I do not play to be gigging again till after years end. I have a couple of things I want to do starting next year, some friends of mine play the casino circuit and I am wanting an amp that can do the 60s/70s/80s stuff, and a bit of new stuff, but nothing over the top.

I also have my own side thing I have been working on with just logic pro and the sims it offers with EZ Drummer. After hearing all the great releases from guys on this site it kind of puts a hamper into even trying as I have nowhere near the skills they have. If it was not for the shear love playing brings me I would just give it up and save a lot of time and cash.

I am going to post some track segments up in the future, and even tough they are amp sims and my mixing skill suck get some input. the way posts have gone lately I figure for a good beating. LOL

Back on track I really think 20th with 6550s if I went Shiva or EL34 XTC 20th again. I really want the Shiva to work and it matches up feature wise with the other option which is a 1987X Marshall I like a lot.

Decisions to make, and time to make them. Thanks for the input!!

 

[RockStarNick]

I've gotta chime in here. It's really not fair to make assumptions, comparisons and recommendations based on clips, if you've never played one.

I've owned a regular EL34 Shiva. And a 20th Anny Shiva.

When people hear the 20th and say "oh it's brighter, it's too modern, too trebly, etc..." you're hearing the KT88s. Trust me. I thought the same exact thing. Couldn't bond with my 20th at all. BUT... swap out the KT88s for EL34's in the 20th, and then play it side by side with a Regular Shiva - it's practically the same amp. The power tubes have a HUGE effect on the personality and voice of the amp.

Loaded with EL34s, the 20th becomes warmer, rounder, more classic. I think it sounds way better.

When you talk about breakup on the clean channel, how much breakup are you talking about? Give an example from a song...

 

[se7en]

Well, the real problem people have had with the 20th Shiva is the fact that they are loaded with SOVTEK 88's which are crap. If you want the full power of the amp, people should try a different brand of KT88 or 6550's...

 

[ttosh]

I've gotta chime in here. It's really not fair to make assumptions, comparisons and recommendations based on clips, if you've never played one.

I've owned a regular EL34 Shiva. And a 20th Anny Shiva.

When people hear the 20th and say "oh it's brighter, it's too modern, too trebly, etc..." you're hearing the KT88s. Trust me. I thought the same exact thing. Couldn't bond with my 20th at all. BUT... swap out the KT88s for EL34's in the 20th, and then play it side by side with a Regular Shiva - it's practically the same amp. The power tubes have a HUGE effect on the personality and voice of the amp.

Loaded with EL34s, the 20th becomes warmer, rounder, more classic. I think it sounds way better.

When you talk about breakup on the clean channel, how much breakup are you talking about? Give an example from a song...

No exact song comes to mind. Maybe think of it as just a bit of grit to the clean, enough breakup to get into mild Plexi style territory. However I think from what I have read it sounds better to use the clean for just clean and channel 2 for breakup and boost for a bit more while rolling the volume knob back on channel 2 for the gritty clean I want as well.

How does the Shiva channel 2 fit in with the XTC 20th blue and red channel? Does it fall between them? Is it more like the blue channel or actually less gain and compression than the blue channel?

 

[glip22]

I've gotta chime in here. It's really not fair to make assumptions, comparisons and recommendations based on clips, if you've never played one.

I've owned a regular EL34 Shiva. And a 20th Anny Shiva.

When people hear the 20th and say "oh it's brighter, it's too modern, too trebly, etc..." you're hearing the KT88s. Trust me. I thought the same exact thing. Couldn't bond with my 20th at all. BUT... swap out the KT88s for EL34's in the 20th, and then play it side by side with a Regular Shiva - it's practically the same amp. The power tubes have a HUGE effect on the personality and voice of the amp.

Loaded with EL34s, the 20th becomes warmer, rounder, more classic. I think it sounds way better.

When you talk about breakup on the clean channel, how much breakup are you talking about? Give an example from a song...

No exact song comes to mind. Maybe think of it as just a bit of grit to the clean, enough breakup to get into mild Plexi style territory. However I think from what I have read it sounds better to use the clean for just clean and channel 2 for breakup and boost for a bit more while rolling the volume knob back on channel 2 for the gritty clean I want as well.

How does the Shiva channel 2 fit in with the XTC 20th blue and red channel? Does it fall between them? Is it more like the blue channel or actually less gain and compression than the blue channel?

Tim, With the amp on channel 1 boost it breaks up mildly. Each channel has its own boost controled by the footswitch. I would have to say the 20th Ecstacy and Shiva 20th are two different animals. There's no Shiva in the 20X and vice Versa other than the Bogner signature mids. Very different voicings.

 

[LP Freak]

I just got done trying three different boosts on my 20th ann. Shiva. A BB Preamp, a Timmy, and my prized modded Tube Screamer and none of them sound very good through the clean channel. They all sounded tinny, buzzy, and you get a clean bleed through. It didnt sound very organic at all. Well I gave it a shot with everything I had laying around and nothing seemed to work.

Now on channel 2, holy shit! What a killer tone with every pedal. They all sound slightly different but all sound great. The Timmy took the prize for recreating the exact same tone with just more gain. The TS and BB sounded great for adding more saturation though.

 

[glip22]

I just got done trying three different boosts on my 20th ann. Shiva. A BB Preamp, a Timmy, and my prized modded Tube Screamer and none of them sound very good through the clean channel. They all sounded tinny, buzzy, and you get a clean bleed through. It didnt sound very organic at all. Well I gave it a shot with everything I had laying around and nothing seemed to work.

Now on channel 2, holy shit! What a killer tone with every pedal. They all sound slightly different but all sound great. The Timmy took the prize for recreating the exact same tone with just more gain. The TS and BB sounded great for adding more saturation though.

Yep. The pedals I tried through the clean channel did not sound good with it.

 

[RockStarNick]

I just got done trying three different boosts on my 20th ann. Shiva. A BB Preamp, a Timmy, and my prized modded Tube Screamer and none of them sound very good through the clean channel. They all sounded tinny, buzzy, and you get a clean bleed through. It didnt sound very organic at all. Well I gave it a shot with everything I had laying around and nothing seemed to work.

Now on channel 2, holy shit! What a killer tone with every pedal. They all sound slightly different but all sound great. The Timmy took the prize for recreating the exact same tone with just more gain. The TS and BB sounded great for adding more saturation though.

All those pedals are GREAT for boosting, but on their own, they sound like, well... pedals. People who say that the BB gets a "plexi like crunch" are smoking crack. The BB is a tube screamer. A GREAT one, but it's a TS with Bass and Treble knobs.

The best thing I've found so far is an OCD, with the Clean Channel's bright switch on. Gets me about 90% of where I want to be, as far as a mild breakup crunch thing... although I'd like to try a Plimsoul.

 

[Glimpse]

Thanks!! I think moving the Fish and 20th XTC was my two worst gear decisions ever.

Well I've got a 20th EL34 XTC for sale! Mint!

 

[ttosh]

Thanks!! I think moving the Fish and 20th XTC was my two worst gear decisions ever.

Well I've got a 20th EL34 XTC for sale! Mint!

I know Plexi headshell which is sex!! I just cannot afford it, unless you do so much down and financing