Bogner Twin Jet : Diezel Herbert Comparison

[ttosh]

First let me say this is my opinion for my style of playing and my tastes in tone. YMMV! Also I have nothing but praises for both amps so IMHO one is not better than the other overall, just different.

Clean Channel: The Diezel Herbert has the best clean channel on a channel switching amp except for the Suhr OD and PT series amps based on all the amps I have tried overall. The Twin Jet really does not have a clean channel so there is not an actual comparison here. The TJ does clean up really well on Channel 1 with a volume knob and this is with the gain dimed.

Rock tones: For rock tones both amps do really well. The Herbert 2- and the TJ Channel 1 are both great for solid rock tones. The TJ has more gain on Channel 1 and covers a bit more territory, but they both do a good job here. Basically the decision would come down to the Diezel or Bogner voicing and mid structure you like.

Metal Tones: The TJ has more of a 3D depth to it over the Herbert, Chords seem thicker and the voicing has more mids to it on Channel 1 and Channel 2. Both Channels can do metal. The Herbert has the nod for tightness which is great for when it is needed. The TJ Channel 1 is very tight sounding and actually just as tight as the Herbert but it does not cover the same gain range as the Herbert on Channel 2+. Again both excel really well here and the final decision would probably be based on voicing.

Volume Control: The Herbert sounds great at low volumes as does the TJ. The strange thing about the TJ is every control on Channel 2 affects volume LOL. Turning the mids up is like turning 4 controls and the volume is one of them. However once dialed in sounds great at low volumes. Both amps are great for this.

Contemporary Tones: I had to learn some praise and worship songs this week for the Church. Both amps do well here, however I really like the Bogner voicing and mids for this type of music. I think the Diezel lacks here for me as the mids do not have the depth of the TJ for mid gain tones and fairly low gain tones.

FX Loop: The Herbert easily wins here. Multiple options, all which work exceptionally well.

My testing is with 2 Mesa Traditional 4x12 cabinets with V30's and a Charvel San Dimas guitar with a JB and 59 pickup. For the testing overall no loops or effects were used, except to test out how well the loops worked.

Hope this helps a bit for anybody looking or deciding between these two. For me personally the TJ is rocking my world more so than the Herbert. I will try at band practice at extreme volumes and see what everybody thinks overall. But I really dig the Bogner voicing and have had the Fish and 3 XTC's including the 20th Anniversary. I was most happy with the Fish and 20th but neither one could get as nasty as I wanted. Not sure why I waited so long to try an Uberschall. I know I have said it already but if you like the Bogner voicing and want a Nasty open aggressive amp, the the TJ will not disappoint at all!!

If there are any specific questions I did not cover feel free to ask, I will give you the best information I can!!

Thanks for the GAS again Steve_K, this time it was well worth it.

 

[steve_k]

First let me say this is my opinion for my style of playing and my tastes in tone. YMMV! Also I have nothing but praises for both amps so IMHO one is not better than the other overall, just different.

Clean Channel: The Diezel Herbert has the best clean channel on a channel switching amp except for the Suhr OD and PT series amps based on all the amps I have tried overall. The Twin Jet really does not have a clean channel so there is not an actual comparison here. The TJ does clean up really well on Channel 1 with a volume knob and this is with the gain dimed.

Rock tones: For rock tones both amps do really well. The Herbert 2- and the TJ Channel 1 are both great for solid rock tones. The TJ has more gain on Channel 1 and covers a bit more territory, but they both do a good job here. Basically the decision would come down to the Diezel or Bogner voicing and mid structure you like.

Metal Tones: The TJ has more of a 3D depth to it over the Herbert, Chords seem thicker and the voicing has more mids to it on Channel 1 and Channel 2. Both Channels can do metal. The Herbert has the nod for tightness which is great for when it is needed. The TJ Channel 1 is very tight sounding and actually just as tight as the Herbert but it does not cover the same gain range as the Herbert on Channel 2+. Again both excel really well here and the final decision would probably be based on voicing.

Volume Control: The Herbert sounds great at low volumes as does the TJ. The strange thing about the TJ is every control on Channel 2 affects volume LOL. Turning the mids up is like turning 4 controls and the volume is one of them. However once dialed in sounds great at low volumes. Both amps are great for this.

Contemporary Tones: I had to learn some praise and worship songs this week for the Church. Both amps do well here, however I really like the Bogner voicing and mids for this type of music. I think the Diezel lacks here for me as the mids do not have the depth of the TJ for mid gain tones and fairly low gain tones.

FX Loop: The Herbert easily wins here. Multiple options, all which work exceptionally well.

My testing is with 2 Mesa Traditional 4x12 cabinets with V30's and a Charvel San Dimas guitar with a JB and 59 pickup. For the testing overall no loops or effects were used, except to test out how well the loops worked.

Hope this helps a bit for anybody looking or deciding between these two. For me personally the TJ is rocking my world more so than the Herbert. I will try at band practice at extreme volumes and see what everybody thinks overall. But I really dig the Bogner voicing and have had the Fish and 3 XTC's including the 20th Anniversary. I was most happy with the Fish and 20th but neither one could get as nasty as I wanted. Not sure why I waited so long to try an Uberschall. I know I have said it already but if you like the Bogner voicing and want a Nasty open aggressive amp, the the TJ will not disappoint at all!!

If there are any specific questions I did not cover feel free to ask, I will give you the best information I can!!

Thanks for the GAS again Steve_K, this time it was well worth it.

Did I lead you astray before? Glad you like it. For the price of the amp, it is solid as hell. Did you get white/black/metal or what?



Steve

 

[ttosh]

First let me say this is my opinion for my style of playing and my tastes in tone. YMMV! Also I have nothing but praises for both amps so IMHO one is not better than the other overall, just different.

Clean Channel: The Diezel Herbert has the best clean channel on a channel switching amp except for the Suhr OD and PT series amps based on all the amps I have tried overall. The Twin Jet really does not have a clean channel so there is not an actual comparison here. The TJ does clean up really well on Channel 1 with a volume knob and this is with the gain dimed.

Rock tones: For rock tones both amps do really well. The Herbert 2- and the TJ Channel 1 are both great for solid rock tones. The TJ has more gain on Channel 1 and covers a bit more territory, but they both do a good job here. Basically the decision would come down to the Diezel or Bogner voicing and mid structure you like.

Metal Tones: The TJ has more of a 3D depth to it over the Herbert, Chords seem thicker and the voicing has more mids to it on Channel 1 and Channel 2. Both Channels can do metal. The Herbert has the nod for tightness which is great for when it is needed. The TJ Channel 1 is very tight sounding and actually just as tight as the Herbert but it does not cover the same gain range as the Herbert on Channel 2+. Again both excel really well here and the final decision would probably be based on voicing.

Volume Control: The Herbert sounds great at low volumes as does the TJ. The strange thing about the TJ is every control on Channel 2 affects volume LOL. Turning the mids up is like turning 4 controls and the volume is one of them. However once dialed in sounds great at low volumes. Both amps are great for this.

Contemporary Tones: I had to learn some praise and worship songs this week for the Church. Both amps do well here, however I really like the Bogner voicing and mids for this type of music. I think the Diezel lacks here for me as the mids do not have the depth of the TJ for mid gain tones and fairly low gain tones.

FX Loop: The Herbert easily wins here. Multiple options, all which work exceptionally well.

My testing is with 2 Mesa Traditional 4x12 cabinets with V30's and a Charvel San Dimas guitar with a JB and 59 pickup. For the testing overall no loops or effects were used, except to test out how well the loops worked.

Hope this helps a bit for anybody looking or deciding between these two. For me personally the TJ is rocking my world more so than the Herbert. I will try at band practice at extreme volumes and see what everybody thinks overall. But I really dig the Bogner voicing and have had the Fish and 3 XTC's including the 20th Anniversary. I was most happy with the Fish and 20th but neither one could get as nasty as I wanted. Not sure why I waited so long to try an Uberschall. I know I have said it already but if you like the Bogner voicing and want a Nasty open aggressive amp, the the TJ will not disappoint at all!!

If there are any specific questions I did not cover feel free to ask, I will give you the best information I can!!

Thanks for the GAS again Steve_K, this time it was well worth it.

Did I lead you astray before? Glad you like it. For the price of the amp, it is solid as hell. Did you get white/black/metal or what?



Steve

No you have never led me astray with GAS, however GAS itself has!!!

Mine is black tolex, with black cloth as I prefer that to the metal grill for some reason. However I dig the Bogner Metal grill more than the Diezel one. Maybe that is why I went cloth as well, the Diezel had metal as the only option.....

I agree about it being solid, the knobs were much larger than I thought they would be, and the whole amp is built like a rock. I heard somebody bitching about weight distribution, it is heavier on one side, but easy to carry compared to the weight of the Herbert as well.

 

[glip22]

First let me say this is my opinion for my style of playing and my tastes in tone. YMMV! Also I have nothing but praises for both amps so IMHO one is not better than the other overall, just different.

Clean Channel: The Diezel Herbert has the best clean channel on a channel switching amp except for the Suhr OD and PT series amps based on all the amps I have tried overall. The Twin Jet really does not have a clean channel so there is not an actual comparison here. The TJ does clean up really well on Channel 1 with a volume knob and this is with the gain dimed.

Rock tones: For rock tones both amps do really well. The Herbert 2- and the TJ Channel 1 are both great for solid rock tones. The TJ has more gain on Channel 1 and covers a bit more territory, but they both do a good job here. Basically the decision would come down to the Diezel or Bogner voicing and mid structure you like.

Metal Tones: The TJ has more of a 3D depth to it over the Herbert, Chords seem thicker and the voicing has more mids to it on Channel 1 and Channel 2. Both Channels can do metal. The Herbert has the nod for tightness which is great for when it is needed. The TJ Channel 1 is very tight sounding and actually just as tight as the Herbert but it does not cover the same gain range as the Herbert on Channel 2+. Again both excel really well here and the final decision would probably be based on voicing.

Volume Control: The Herbert sounds great at low volumes as does the TJ. The strange thing about the TJ is every control on Channel 2 affects volume LOL. Turning the mids up is like turning 4 controls and the volume is one of them. However once dialed in sounds great at low volumes. Both amps are great for this.

Contemporary Tones: I had to learn some praise and worship songs this week for the Church. Both amps do well here, however I really like the Bogner voicing and mids for this type of music. I think the Diezel lacks here for me as the mids do not have the depth of the TJ for mid gain tones and fairly low gain tones.

FX Loop: The Herbert easily wins here. Multiple options, all which work exceptionally well.

My testing is with 2 Mesa Traditional 4x12 cabinets with V30's and a Charvel San Dimas guitar with a JB and 59 pickup. For the testing overall no loops or effects were used, except to test out how well the loops worked.

Hope this helps a bit for anybody looking or deciding between these two. For me personally the TJ is rocking my world more so than the Herbert. I will try at band practice at extreme volumes and see what everybody thinks overall. But I really dig the Bogner voicing and have had the Fish and 3 XTC's including the 20th Anniversary. I was most happy with the Fish and 20th but neither one could get as nasty as I wanted. Not sure why I waited so long to try an Uberschall. I know I have said it already but if you like the Bogner voicing and want a Nasty open aggressive amp, the the TJ will not disappoint at all!!

If there are any specific questions I did not cover feel free to ask, I will give you the best information I can!!

Thanks for the GAS again Steve_K, this time it was well worth it.

Tim farted
Nice comparison.

 

[RedB4Black]

I had my TJ and Herbert at the same time. I agree with alot of what your wrote. I ultimately prefered the Herbert though. I offed my TJ when I got my Baron K88 - that amp just made my TJ not sound quite as good. You should check them out Tim, they're made not too far from you in Kansas.

I've come full circle now and have a Rev. Blue, which I think I like a little better than the TJ. And my Herbert is gone...though I miss it.

 

[ttosh]

I had my TJ and Herbert at the same time. I agree with alot of what your wrote. I ultimately prefered the Herbert though. I offed my TJ when I got my Baron K88 - that amp just made my TJ not sound quite as good. You should check them out Tim, they're made not too far from you in Kansas.

I've come full circle now and have a Rev. Blue, which I think I like a little better than the TJ. And my Herbert is gone...though I miss it.

I would love to check out the Rev. Blue sometime. Although I really like Channel 1 on the TJ a lot. I have always loved the Bogner voicing but wanted something with more aggression than the XTC or Fish offered. The TJ was the next smart option for me, but I never thought I would like an Uberschall, not sure why.

So is the voicing of the Baron similar to the Bogner voicing? It would be cool to check out sometime as well. I love the Herbert and only prefer the TJ to it because of the Mids. The Herbert is definitely more versatile overall on the fly, but the TJ has already shown me a lot of tonal options already and definitely cover the ones I lean towards.

Where are the Baron's made. I actually live in Oklahoma, but grew up in Kansas.

Thanks for the input!!!

 

[Ventura]

Volume Control: The Herbert sounds great at low volumes as does the TJ. The strange thing about the TJ is every control on Channel 2 affects volume LOL. Turning the mids up is like turning 4 controls and the volume is one of them. However once dialed in sounds great at low volumes. Both amps are great for this.

I know, I know... I tried calling it "counter intuitive" EQ'ing, but man, when I owned my TJ, I always forewarned the cats who'd drunk a few beers to watch out when attempting to "dial in their tone". I always ended in - no wait, that's the problem - it never ended. They got really confused and started swearing and telling me that "hey man, there's like something WRONG with this amp man, like, I just...I mean I had...aw f*ck dude...what just happened,,,!?!?!"

Good times, good times

THANKS for the review Tim!! I miss my Tj, but I knew it was too limiting for what I needed... However, in the future, with more space in the studio, it may just be on the buy list as Stevie's right, for that price?!?!?!? Can't go wrong.

Peace,
Mojo

 

[RedB4Black]

So is the voicing of the Baron similar to the Bogner voicing? It would be cool to check out sometime as well. I love the Herbert and only prefer the TJ to it because of the Mids. The Herbert is definitely more versatile overall on the fly, but the TJ has already shown me a lot of tonal options already and definitely cover the ones I lean towards.

Where are the Baron's made. I actually live in Oklahoma, but grew up in Kansas.

Thanks for the input!!!

The Baron is much more of an upper mid focus. Side by side, the baron was much more open sounding, made the TJ sound almost congested and boxy by comparison. I liked the TJ alot before I got that Baron. The Baron kind of ruined it for me. The Baron has alot of gain and aggression to it but very clear and not fizzy. Very tight too. Reminded me of a combo of and SLO/VHT UL/5150. Plus the loop actually was perfect, unlike on the TJ.

You are in Tulsa aren't you. Baron amps are in Wichita KS - not too far from you. Definitely worth checking out.

 

[ttosh]

Volume Control: The Herbert sounds great at low volumes as does the TJ. The strange thing about the TJ is every control on Channel 2 affects volume LOL. Turning the mids up is like turning 4 controls and the volume is one of them. However once dialed in sounds great at low volumes. Both amps are great for this.

I know, I know... I tried calling it "counter intuitive" EQ'ing, but man, when I owned my TJ, I always forewarned the cats who'd drunk a few beers to watch out when attempting to "dial in their tone". I always ended in - no wait, that's the problem - it never ended. They got really confused and started swearing and telling me that "hey man, there's like something WRONG with this amp man, like, I just...I mean I had...aw f*ck dude...what just happened,,,!?!?!"

Good times, good times

THANKS for the review Tim!! I miss my Tj, but I knew it was too limiting for what I needed... However, in the future, with more space in the studio, it may just be on the buy list as Stevie's right, for that price?!?!?!? Can't go wrong.

Peace,
Mojo

I have to say overall I have heard a few people call it limiting, but so far it does everything extremely well except for pristine cleans. I know Matt said in an earlier post the Baron and Herbert he liked better overall and I trust you and Matt for knowing tone. I just cannot get over how well it stands out with the Bogner voice and mids, but is still goes from mid gain to all out extreme.

Right now if I had to pick between it and the Herbert I would keep the TJ. It reminds me a lot of the 20th in so many areas, but goes the extra mile with more aggressive music. I think the blue channel on the 20th is as sweet as it gets for mid gain sounds and the red channel on the XTC is great for thick lead tones. So far I feel pretty good that the TJ can get very close to both of those. I might even venture out a step further and say the TJ seems a bit more open than the 20th to me when it is on Channel 1. The first channel is just a delight since I was not sure what to expect. The second channel delivers exactly what I expected it to, but channel 1 is ever so awesome IMHO.

I am sure I am going through the early on awe of it, but the last few amps I have gotten outside of the Herbert left me feeling a bit meh... in regards to what I had hoped for overall, I actually had my expectations low for the TJ and it has been a while since an amp has exceeded them so highly. I could see adding a Marshall type amp like a Marsha to the equation and running it with the TJ and being very happy for a long time to come.

Okay, I am done being a fanboi....

 

[ttosh]

So is the voicing of the Baron similar to the Bogner voicing? It would be cool to check out sometime as well. I love the Herbert and only prefer the TJ to it because of the Mids. The Herbert is definitely more versatile overall on the fly, but the TJ has already shown me a lot of tonal options already and definitely cover the ones I lean towards.

Where are the Baron's made. I actually live in Oklahoma, but grew up in Kansas.

Thanks for the input!!!

The Baron is much more of an upper mid focus. Side by side, the baron was much more open sounding, made the TJ sound almost congested and boxy by comparison. I liked the TJ alot before I got that Baron. The Baron kind of ruined it for me. The Baron has alot of gain and aggression to it but very clear and not fizzy. Very tight too. Reminded me of a combo of and SLO/VHT UL/5150. Plus the loop actually was perfect, unlike on the TJ.

You are in Tulsa aren't you. Baron amps are in Wichita KS - not too far from you. Definitely worth checking out.

That is not to far to go and check out. I listened to some of the clips on their site. Sounds more like my Diezel Herbert than the TJ to me. Sounds great!!! Has that Diezel type vibe going on with a darker mid until they scooped them, then sounded almost identical. This is with youtube clips, so I am guessing it sounds way better in room.

 

[steve_k]

Been running my TJ/Marsha together today. Very wicked groove with a Strat and single coils. The Marsha has Plexi all over it and the TJ was Plexied out on steroids!

RJM Y-Not......the best A/B/Y for the money.

Steve

 

[RedB4Black]

I have to say overall I have heard a few people call it limiting, but so far it does everything extremely well except for pristine cleans. I know Matt said in an earlier post the Baron and Herbert he liked better overall and I trust you and Matt for knowing tone. I just cannot get over how well it stands out with the Bogner voice and mids, but is still goes from mid gain to all out extreme.

Right now if I had to pick between it and the Herbert I would keep the TJ. It reminds me a lot of the 20th in so many areas, but goes the extra mile with more aggressive music. I think the blue channel on the 20th is as sweet as it gets for mid gain sounds and the red channel on the XTC is great for thick lead tones. So far I feel pretty good that the TJ can get very close to both of those. I might even venture out a step further and say the TJ seems a bit more open than the 20th to me when it is on Channel 1. The first channel is just a delight since I was not sure what to expect. The second channel delivers exactly what I expected it to, but channel 1 is ever so awesome IMHO.

I am sure I am going through the early on awe of it, but the last few amps I have gotten outside of the Herbert left me feeling a bit meh... in regards to what I had hoped for overall, I actually had my expectations low for the TJ and it has been a while since an amp has exceeded them so highly. I could see adding a Marshall type amp like a Marsha to the equation and running it with the TJ and being very happy for a long time to come.

Okay, I am done being a fanboi....

I preferred channel one of the TJ actually. You should consider the 20th Anniversary Shiva. That amp is awesome. I kick myself for not buying one for cheap when I had the chance.

 

[fickle]

I also was a fan of chan. 1 on the TJ when I had it.. Great amp!
Now I am rocking a Rev. Blue and really like that as well.