Buffer Madness

[maddnotez]

Please forgive me for being a noob, I know this has been discussed on here.

But I feel any topic more than 2 years old could use an update?

I have been considering buying a buffer. I understand the basic concept but it gets confusing when you get into depth.

I have read some pedals already have buffers and also that you dont need a buffer unless the pedal is true bypass, Dont stack buffers, Pedals can be used as buffers, if you're using a 10M buffer, you can expect your guitar to be a bit brighter.

My main questions are what makes one better than the next, and which one is for me?

I use a wah pedal and an Overdrive. (getting ready to experiment putting it in the loop, but Ive always ran the OD in front before the wah).

Cornish, FUCHS PURE GAIN CLEAN BOOSTER, Rjm, Freidman , T1M, CAE MXR MC406 Buffer, TC Electronic Tone Print pedals, Wrampler Clean Buffer, http://www.caseyhanson.com, Strobostomp, tone freak buff puff, H&K Tubefactor, Suhr KoKo, cmatmods, FJA Buffer Box, acxess buffer. Fryette Valvulator.

Obviously there are alot of choices, are the high $$$$$ any better than the $40???

Also list some others not mentioned if you know of any.

 

[steve_k]

Curious as to what leads you to believe that you need a buffer? I try to avoid the nasty little widgets.

 

[D-Rock]

I try to avoid pedals period. It's just a constant mindfuck wondering what goes where, which sounds best, signal loss, power supplies, cabling...yuck.

Sounds like you have a lot of cabling there. So you probably could benefit from a buffer.
Plug straight in and play, then do the same through your chain.
Do you hear any dulling of your tone/highend freq?

 

[blackba]

^ I agree try plugging straight in and see if you notice a tone change. If plugging straight in sounds better to you than look into a buffer. I would probably go with the T1M buffer if I needed one.

For my buffer needs I use a Korg DT-10 tuner pedal, works great and nice tuner as well.

 

[maddnotez]

Cant find multi quote so in order:

steve_k: Curious as to what leads you to believe that you need a buffer? I try to avoid the nasty little widgets.

I use a couple of pedals and a few cords, trying to maximize my tone. (was not aware about a pedal having or acting as a buffer until today)

D-Rock: Plug straight in and play, then do the same through your chain.
Do you hear any dulling of your tone/highend freq?

Havent had the chance to listen for it, I have done the pedal vs straight in and there is a difference, just would have to do it again a few times to describe, not sure if its Dulling or what. Practice tomorrow, to be continued......

blackba: For my buffer needs I use a Korg DT-10 tuner pedal, works great and nice tuner as well.

I need a tuner as well, maybe this will kill 2 birds with one stone????

 

[blackba]

Looking at your sig, check this out on the Maxon OD-808. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80378

On your crybaby, scroll down to this section: http://www.jimdunlop.com/blog/crybaby-i ... -the-535q/

"The 535Q is almost true hardwire bypass. While the circuit is arranged for true hardwire bypass, there are very large resistors hanging off the input and output. These act to discharge any leakage from input and output capacitances, thus reducing the amount of ‘pop’ heard during switching. You must remove R41 and R42 in order to make the 535Q true hardwire bypass."

I have a Peterson SS2 tuner that had these resistors for antipop and with a long pedal chain I did notice a negative effect on my tone, so I removed the resistor and didn't notice and increase in 'pop' when I engaged the pedal.

The Korg DT-10 tuner is discontinued, but can still be found used for around $50.

 

[RockStarNick]

Looking at your sig, the Maxon OD-808 already has a buffer.

On your crybaby, scroll down to this section: http://www.jimdunlop.com/blog/crybaby-i ... -the-535q/

"The 535Q is almost true hardwire bypass. While the circuit is arranged for true hardwire bypass, there are very large resistors hanging off the input and output. These act to discharge any leakage from input and output capacitances, thus reducing the amount of ‘pop’ heard during switching. You must remove R41 and R42 in order to make the 535Q true hardwire bypass."

I have a Peterson SS2 tuner that had these resistors for antipop and with a long pedal chain I did notice a negative effect on my tone, so I removed the resistor and didn't notice and increase in 'pop' when I engaged the pedal.

The Korg DT-10 tuner is discontinued, but can still be found used for around $50.

R41 on mine was tucked under a piece of ribbon cable. Super easy mod to do, those Surface Mount components pop right off after you heat the connections a bit.

 

[blackba]

Found this link too, the Maxon OD-808 has FET bypass. http://stinkfoot.se/archives/501

 

[maddnotez]

Looking at your sig, the Maxon OD-808 already has a buffer.

On your crybaby, scroll down to this section: http://www.jimdunlop.com/blog/crybaby-i ... -the-535q/

"The 535Q is almost true hardwire bypass. While the circuit is arranged for true hardwire bypass, there are very large resistors hanging off the input and output. These act to discharge any leakage from input and output capacitances, thus reducing the amount of ‘pop’ heard during switching. You must remove R41 and R42 in order to make the 535Q true hardwire bypass."

I have a Peterson SS2 tuner that had these resistors for antipop and with a long pedal chain I did notice a negative effect on my tone, so I removed the resistor and didn't notice and increase in 'pop' when I engaged the pedal.

The Korg DT-10 tuner is discontinued, but can still be found used for around $50.

R41 on mine was tucked under a piece of ribbon cable. Super easy mod to do, those Surface Mount components pop right off after you heat the connections a bit.

So the only tone suck should be from the wah based form this info????

Ill have to double check again and test some more, I usually do use less than 20 ft of cable so if I can mod the pedal I really wouldnt need a buffer, i am assuming R41 and R42 are the resistors that need to be removed to give tbp mod???

also lets say I decide to NOT mod the pedal and I do get a buffer. Any that are superior? What makes one better than the other?

 

[tituba]

I actually like on board buffers on my guitars. With all the true bypass madness those cliff switches ARE physical switches that corrode every time they are switched. Multiply that by all the true bypass pedals on your board and ALL the cable from your guitar and in between the pedals there is measure of capacitance there that an onboard buffer can negate. I believe warren Haynes ,Jerry Garcia and others used them drive long cable runs w/o signal loss. as for stacking buffers, any one using more than 1 boss,dod, modtone,maxon pedal on their board at a time is guilty of this UNLESS they have TB loops for these.my .02. it's hard for to play w/o one . BTW....of you are using emg's or blackouts,you are already lo-z so no worries for you. Hope this helps

 

[tituba]

I actually like on board buffers on my guitars. With all the true bypass madness those cliff switches ARE physical switches that corrode every time they are switched. Multiply that by all the true bypass pedals on your board and ALL the cable from your guitar and in between the pedals there is measure of capacitance there that an onboard buffer can negate. I believe warren Haynes ,Jerry Garcia and others used them drive long cable runs w/o signal loss. as for stacking buffers, any one using more than 1 boss,dod, modtone,maxon pedal on their board at a time is guilty of this UNLESS they have TB loops for these.my .02. it's hard for to play w/o one . BTW....if you are using emg's or blackouts,you are already lo-z so no worries for you. Hope this helps

 

[maddnotez]

Actually does help quite a bit. I use actives so...that acts as a buffer?

 

[blackba]

Looking at your sig, the Maxon OD-808 already has a buffer.

On your crybaby, scroll down to this section: http://www.jimdunlop.com/blog/crybaby-i ... -the-535q/

"The 535Q is almost true hardwire bypass. While the circuit is arranged for true hardwire bypass, there are very large resistors hanging off the input and output. These act to discharge any leakage from input and output capacitances, thus reducing the amount of ‘pop’ heard during switching. You must remove R41 and R42 in order to make the 535Q true hardwire bypass."

I have a Peterson SS2 tuner that had these resistors for antipop and with a long pedal chain I did notice a negative effect on my tone, so I removed the resistor and didn't notice and increase in 'pop' when I engaged the pedal.

The Korg DT-10 tuner is discontinued, but can still be found used for around $50.

R41 on mine was tucked under a piece of ribbon cable. Super easy mod to do, those Surface Mount components pop right off after you heat the connections a bit.

So the only tone suck should be from the wah based form this info????

Ill have to double check again and test some more, I usually do use less than 20 ft of cable so if I can mod the pedal I really wouldnt need a buffer, i am assuming R41 and R42 are the resistors that need to be removed to give tbp mod???

also lets say I decide to NOT mod the pedal and I do get a buffer. Any that are superior? What makes one better than the other?

Your Maxon OD-808 does have a buffer already. I would work on the wah and start with that, than you will have a TB pedal. If R41 and R42 are in series, you only need to remove 1.

Once you get your Wah True Bypass, then try your guitar 1st straight in, then try it through the wah, then try it through the maxon. You will then know what works for your guitar and rig.

I will say that I only own one active instrument and its a bass. It will be interesting what you find.

 

[maddnotez]

Your Maxon OD-808 does have a buffer already. I would work on the wah and start with that, than you will have a TB pedal. If R41 and R42 are in series, you only need to remove 1.

Once you get your Wah True Bypass, then try your guitar 1st straight in, then try it through the wah, then try it through the maxon. You will then know what works for your guitar and rig.

I will say that I only own one active instrument and its a bass. It will be interesting what you find.

Ok this is getting weird now. This is what I found, or think I found.

First off the pedal and the pup questions.

The pedal has a buffer in it? Meaning Maxon installed one in this particular pedal?

Also the pups, because they are active, they "act" as a buffer?


Now the weird stuff....I threw the wah to the side for now.

I A/B'd as fast as I could plugging straight in the amp with no Maxon, only my active pups..Then plugged it with Maxon in front but turned off.

It sounded to me muddier plugging straight in, the rest of the guys said yeah muddier but more so sounded bassier.

I hook up the Maxon, but keep it off. Less muddy, more clear and then when I turn the pedal on, tight, clear bliss.

I am confused by a few different things:

If my actives acted as a buffer, why was it muddy when I plug straight in? Shouldnt it have "buffed" out the tone suck from my crappy cord???

Since I have the Maxon and active pups do I now have 2 buffers? And do they cancel each other out?

What would one expect from the same test with passive pups? Thats what I plan to do tomorrow.

 

[D-Rock]

Like I said, mindfuck.

Unfortunately pedals are a necessary evil for some .

 

[maddnotez]

Like I said, mindfuck.

Unfortunately pedals are a necessary evil for some .

Haha but i only need a wah and an overdrive. I tried od in fx loop last night and couldn't hear any difference.

 

[blackba]

Your Maxon OD-808 does have a buffer already. I would work on the wah and start with that, than you will have a TB pedal. If R41 and R42 are in series, you only need to remove 1.

Once you get your Wah True Bypass, then try your guitar 1st straight in, then try it through the wah, then try it through the maxon. You will then know what works for your guitar and rig.

I will say that I only own one active instrument and its a bass. It will be interesting what you find.

Ok this is getting weird now. This is what I found, or think I found.

First off the pedal and the pup questions.

The pedal has a buffer in it? Meaning Maxon installed one in this particular pedal?

Also the pups, because they are active, they "act" as a buffer?


Now the weird stuff....I threw the wah to the side for now.

I A/B'd as fast as I could plugging straight in the amp with no Maxon, only my active pups..Then plugged it with Maxon in front but turned off.

It sounded to me muddier plugging straight in, the rest of the guys said yeah muddier but more so sounded bassier.

I hook up the Maxon, but keep it off. Less muddy, more clear and then when I turn the pedal on, tight, clear bliss.

I am confused by a few different things:

If my actives acted as a buffer, why was it muddy when I plug straight in? Shouldnt it have "buffed" out the tone suck from my crappy cord???

Since I have the Maxon and active pups do I now have 2 buffers? And do they cancel each other out?

What would one expect from the same test with passive pups? Thats what I plan to do tomorrow.

What most people hear with a buffer is the highs returned, so it makes sense that plugging straight in, it would sound a bit darker or muddier. In general if you get too many buffers that is bad, (kind of dulls and deadens the one in my experience), same with too many true bypass pedals (generally rolls off the highs). I say if the OD-808 sounds good in the chain, just run with that.

 

[maddnotez]

What most people hear with a buffer is the highs returned, so it makes sense that plugging straight in, it would sound a bit darker or muddier. In general if you get too many buffers that is bad, (kind of dulls and deadens the one in my experience), same with too many true bypass pedals (generally rolls off the highs). I say if the OD-808 sounds good in the chain, just run with that.

Right normally it would, but since im using actives...Wouldnt the pups be the buffer and I should get the "highs returned" from the pups????

 

[blackba]

What most people hear with a buffer is the highs returned, so it makes sense that plugging straight in, it would sound a bit darker or muddier. In general if you get too many buffers that is bad, (kind of dulls and deadens the one in my experience), same with too many true bypass pedals (generally rolls off the highs). I say if the OD-808 sounds good in the chain, just run with that.

Right normally it would, but since im using actives...Wouldnt the pups be the buffer and I should get the "highs returned" from the pups????

The active circuit should have a buffer and a preamp yes. How this affects the system, I am not sure.