Cab decisions.... auuggghhh!

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studiojig

studiojig

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Ok, so I know that the newest Diezel cabs are otherworldly, but let's leave that aside for just a moment -

Got the Herbert and love it ('cept for the switchable loop not working... Terry's on it though). Got a Bogner 4x12 and love it too. HOWEVER, when I hooked the two together in a band rehearsal situation just recently, I had trouble with it cutting through. I had plenty of treble and presence dialed in (more than you could stand when played alone) and enough volume to deafen the more timid (we play pretty loud and heavy rock/metal-ish stuff). Now, I'll admit that I'm still learning the amp and dialing things in just so, so the fault is very likely mine, but I'm wondering if the cab is part of the problem too??

The Bogner is awesome, but it's very compressed and tight and bassy sounding... or at least, it can easily be made to sound that way. Especially with the Herbert. SO, I'm wondering if an older model FL Diezel cab w/ mix of 30's and G12K-100's might help matters in this area while still retaining tightness, full bass response, etc.?? It'll be cheaper to go that route than buy one of the brand new D cabs at this time so that's why I ask. Finally, is there another cab aside from that which could help? Or, do I just need more time dialing things in with different settings (aka am I just too newbie w/ Diezel stuff)?? :-)

Thoughts??
 
Go with the older Front Loaded route. It's what I'm doing(all g12k's though) I had a Standard Bogner cab too once with a Herbert. Great bass response but very soft in the mids, add a dark amp to begin with and that = not good. This goes double for a two guitar band wall of sound type thing. If both guitars are a dark sound it can work though. It is a very nice sound, just doesn't like to compete with another guitar, easily washed out in the mids. Front loaded cures this though.
 
Hey_bert_whtcha_doin_bert":1mdzmi1p said:
Go with the older Front Loaded route. It's what I'm doing(all g12k's though) I had a Standard Bogner cab too once with a Herbert. Great bass response but very soft in the mids, add a dark amp to begin with and that = not good. This goes double for a two guitar band wall of sound type thing. If both guitars are a dark sound it can work though. It is a very nice sound, just doesn't like to compete with another guitar, easily washed out in the mids. Front loaded cures this though.
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm afraid that's the route I'll have to take... much as I love the sound of the Bog (on its own at least).
 
If you can, keep the Bogner cab to run cleans through, the front loaded cleans are very nice but not as bouncy as the Bogner though.
 
True, cleans did sound nice as hell through this thing. Well, everything did, it's just the cutting through on heavy stuff that kinda suffered. I wonder if adding a second cab to the mix would help matters or just be more of the same (i.e. run two of 'em at the same time)
 
Hey,

I'm having similar considerations with regards to cab configurations as well. The Bogner, is it FL or RL? Secondly, Bogner's are pretty pimp cabs in their own right - are you prepared to meddle with changing the cones around only to find you may be disappointed? Have you considered maybe selling the Bogner "as is" and putting the funds towards a new Diezel cab? Are there any applications in which you need the Bogner? Ever considered a VH4S to run two cabs??

Lots to think about... I am trying to decide to go with an X pattern G12K100 & V30 config, or all G12K100's in my RL Diezel 4x12. It's got G12H-30's in there right now, underrated and a bit brown and muddy. Dark. I don't have the ka-ching to go out and pick up a brand new FL Diezel, so I am going to try meddling with some G12K100's instead.

But my main question is the RL versus FL of your Bogner. If it's RL, you may need an entirely different cabinet in order to get that "room full" presence and cut-through you're looking for. RL's are a lot more directional, even though for decades musicians have relied solely on this style of design.

PM me if you'd like all that I've come across with regards to cab designs and specific speakers et al. I've done a couple weeks worth of research on this very topic. If I could, I'd love to have a FL cabinet X loaded with 100W speakers - warm and brown hemps with crystal loud and gainy G12K100's - but they don't come like that. One thing I saw that changed everything was the upgraded power output of the 6550 loaded heads - they've got WAY more chutzpah that before...which will dictate the rating of your individual cones in the cabinet.

Good luck, namaste...
V. \:D/
 
There is no comparison with the new Diezel cabs and the old cabs. It is one thing to consider speakers however in fairness you really need to look at the cab as well. The woods, construction, etc. That is just as important if not more important then the speaker choices. All aspects need to be considered and understood.
 
Well, you could try what I'm trying which is swapping the cones in the 4x12 around - an "X" pattern is indeed a tempting consideration; bearing in mind that the Herbie is a high output amp - so if you're swapping speakers, they have to have a good enough rating. Obviously 100W G12K's are rated well enough - as are V30's. There are sonic considerations with everything and interplay between cabinet design and woods and internal volumes and cones.

With all that's considered and the fact that you're NOT wanting to get rid of your Bogner cab, try the speaker change. I mentioned earlier that Bog makes reputable stuff, and the secondary sale market for those cabs might yield you a good enough return to just dump and buy anew. Through and through, a FL 4x12 G12K100 Diezel would be the cabinet for you. It's multidirectional, loud, well suited to the power of the Herbie and MADE by the same peeps who make the Herbie. The fact that your Bog is RL may always have its limitations in that it's more directional like any other RL cab.

Just my $0.02 worth and considering I am in a similar quandary and very careful about spending extra money on things I may not need, I am pretty certain I may just need to go the same route. I do more studio recording, so "room presence" of a FL cab may not be necessary, but the clarity and punch of the G12K100's could fix my current issue (dark, brown and not to sparkly with my current G12H304x12 loaded stereo Diezel cab).

Namaste,
V.
 
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