Can anyone describe how different Pick Up output levels ....

[blumuz123]

affect tone?
Maybe Wade could chime in?


I know its a noob question but.........I need some info to get my head around the purpose for different PU output levels.

Obviously you hit the front end of an amp harder it breaks up earlier or better, probably lowers the noise floor.
But with a lower output Pu you would just make the amp work harder to break up or distort.

How do those two ways of getting distortion sound different? or do both just come to the same conclusion sonically?

Thanks for any input

 

[Valtiel]

affect tone?
Maybe Wade could chime in?


I know its a noob question but.........I need some info to get my head around the purpose for different PU output levels.

Obviously you hit the front end of an amp harder it breaks up earlier or better, probably lowers the noise floor.
But with a lower output Pu you would just make the amp work harder to break up or distort.

How do those two ways of getting distortion sound different? or do both just come to the same conclusion sonically?

Thanks for any input

At its most basic, more winds on a pickup = more mids, less highs and more output. Lower output pickups are usually going to sound more open and clearer due to having less midrange and more high end. Higher output pickups will sound more focused and powerful due to the fact that more of their energy is focused on the midrange. This will drive the amp harder.

Their is no universal "better" or "right or wrong" in terms of pickups because it depends so much on the guitar. Personally, I think Les Pauls benefit from lower output pickups because the thick mahogany bodies and set mahogany necks already provide a lot of midrange presence and a warmer top end, so the added treble and mellow midrange of the pickups strike a good balance. Guitars like my PRS with a tremolo tend to benefit from higher output pickups because their thinner bodies, thicker maple caps, and tremolo bridges tend to add a lot of high end presence. The extra midrange and smoother top end of the hotter pickups balances well here.

 

[EWSEthan]

affect tone?
Maybe Wade could chime in?


I know its a noob question but.........I need some info to get my head around the purpose for different PU output levels.

Obviously you hit the front end of an amp harder it breaks up earlier or better, probably lowers the noise floor.
But with a lower output Pu you would just make the amp work harder to break up or distort.

How do those two ways of getting distortion sound different? or do both just come to the same conclusion sonically?

Thanks for any input

At its most basic, more winds on a pickup = more mids, less highs and more output. Lower output pickups are usually going to sound more open and clearer due to having less midrange and more high end. Higher output pickups will sound more focused and powerful due to the fact that more of their energy is focused on the midrange. This will drive the amp harder.

Their is no universal "better" or "right or wrong" in terms of pickups because it depends so much on the guitar. Personally, I think Les Pauls benefit from lower output pickups because the thick mahogany bodies and set mahogany necks already provide a lot of midrange presence and a warmer top end, so the added treble and mellow midrange of the pickups strike a good balance. Guitars like my PRS with a tremolo tend to benefit from higher output pickups because their thinner bodies, thicker maple caps, and tremolo bridges tend to add a lot of high end presence. The extra midrange and smoother top end of the hotter pickups balances well here.

this is a really interest post. thanks for this.

 

[3 Mile Stone]

Good stuff. Here's another aspect. The battle for most of us is to find the proper middle ground. The lower the output the better the clean tone. It's open, airy and has clarity and pristine high end, like say a classic PAF type. But it doesn't push the front end of the amp as hard and does not have those beautiful mids when venturing into higher gain territory. Finding the right blend is where it's at for me. I have found that Tom Anderson and Suhr acheive this pretty well with several of thier models. I would love to try some Motor City's though.

 

[blumuz123]

Good stuff. Here's another aspect. The battle for most of us is to find the proper middle ground. The lower the output the better the clean tone. It's open, airy and has clarity and pristine high end, like say a classic PAF type. But it doesn't push the front end of the amp as hard and does not have those beautiful mids when venturing into higher gain territory. Finding the right blend is where it's at for me. I have found that Tom Anderson and Suhr acheive this pretty well with several of thier models. I would love to try some Motor City's though.

so with the lower output/cleaner sound does that give a cleaner, smoother (more distinctive notes) when in crunch or distortion?

I played an AC30cc2x at GC and the distortion sounded great/warm make u smile with a lower output tele Pu.

However with my gretsch and its Motorcity rewind mini humbucker (w higher output than stock and which is fantastic everywhere else)
the dist sounded horrible cleans were just ok. Now with that said the stock Ac30cc series really need modifying to sound/respond right.
I bought a used AC30 cc that has some of the mods done to it and my Gretsch sounds otstanding with the cleans and much better with the distortion but i believe i need the rest of the recommended mods to be able to get the better dist with the higher output of my Pu's.

The motorcity rewind cleans up in an awesome way backing off a 1/4 turn. then that last 1/4 turn really kicks in the growl and aggressiveness which works very well for me.

so..it seems to me a Noob........maybe that with stock ac30's, fenders, vintage fenders etc. you really need to stick with lower output pu's which they are probably designed for and let the amp work harder, maybe using a clean boost pedal as well.

Just tryin to figure it out because Ive mismatched equipment for too long and my tone was never magical.

now with my eggies the tone is great and even better with Motorcity Pu's and better yet with a few tube swaps.

my friend plugged in his new fender american anniversary strat into his 1967 blackface Super reverb and the cleans are magical.
and thats why I bring up the whole output thing. I was ready to tell him you know youre gonna have to replace the Pu's right off the bat.

Thanks