[Captor X 8] Distorted clean channel

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Dawis67

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Hi,
I've just received my Captor X and been testing with Marshall JVM205H. Problem I'm having is distorted cleans, which I have made a recording of (see below). It's been recorded using the green clean channel with master at 8 and gain at 4. If you listen carefully you can distinguish the clean tone below a discreate, "sand falling on paper", kind of distortion on the top. Note that there is no clipping (red LED) on the Captor X or the audio interface while the recording was made.

Recording: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C10SJf9b0rfrBYxitIKjURWR8LfYDEnK/view?usp=sharing

I've read TwoNotes blog posts regarding unusual distortion when using IRs, and I've also seen Pete Thorns video on clipping/distortion on clean channel when using IRs (), though I think you can hear form my recording that the "distortion" I'm getting is different. When using a speaker, the cleans are crystal clear. Conversely, when using the Captor X, with the Marshall gain and master at like 3 (volume I can use comfortably with speaker), the sand grain distortion can be heard.

I will also note that the OD channels seem to have more gain than with a speaker, although its hard to discern if the gain I'm hearing on the clean channel is also present in the OD.

I've tested the following:
- Very low output from Marshall (typicaly master and gain/volume at 3/10)
- In-Level adjustments. I need to use Low setting otherwise the Red clipping occurs on the Captor X. But the distortion is there even when there is no clipping
- Listen directly to headphones output -> same distortion can be heard

Important note about my amplifier:
I've been doing some troubleshooting on the amp because of a distortion/ish problem that has relatively recently appeared on my amp. problem with troubleshooting is that the issue isn't consistently heard. For example it can be heard when playing on my cab at home, however I've tested the amp at my local music stores cab and It sounded great. So it could just be my cab. Or maybe this distortion that is present on the Captor X is made by the amp. Either way, there are many inconsistencies with the sound of the amp depending on what speaker/IR I'm listening to.

Conclusion: If you have any experience with Captor X, I would appreciate if you would chime in on whether you think this distortion is normal for Captor X, or there is something else going on?
 
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Good morning @Dawis67

Ross from Two notes here - thanks for getting in touch. I am so sorry to hear you are experiencing issues here. Canm I confirm what IRs you are using please and is this one of our DynIRs? Due to the filtering impacted by an IR / DynIR you can experience some artefacts, however these tones are usually present in your amp from the outset and the IR can simply bring them to the forefront - moreover, a speaker can be a lot more forgiving in terms of the distribution of frequency content from the source and as such noises of this nature can be masked.

You note you are having distortion-centric issues with your amp - this may also be playing a contributing factor. May I ask when you last got the tubes changed?

Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Kind regards,

Ross
 
RossJohnDavies said:
Good morning @Dawis67

Ross from Two notes here - thanks for getting in touch. I am so sorry to hear you are experiencing issues here. Canm I confirm what IRs you are using please and is this one of our DynIRs? Due to the filtering impacted by an IR / DynIR you can experience some artefacts, however these tones are usually present in your amp from the outset and the IR can simply bring them to the forefront - moreover, a speaker can be a lot more forgiving in terms of the distribution of frequency content from the source and as such noises of this nature can be masked.

You note you are having distortion-centric issues with your amp - this may also be playing a contributing factor. May I ask when you last got the tubes changed?

Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Kind regards,

Ross
Click to expand...
Sorry for the long time it took me to respond. Before trying anything else I wanted to first make sure that my amp was in order. I have now had it looked at by a tech, who has tested the connections / tubes, and says the amp sounds good. Yes, indeed, when playing with his guitar through his cab, it sounded good (for whatever brief time I was able to test it)

Now back to testing the Captor X with the amp. My main gripe has been the very audiable distortion (sounds like clipping / sand falling on paper / white noise kind of sound) on top of most of my cleans when using Captor X. For most of the testing I have been using headphones directly into the Captor X, although it sounds identical to what my Scarlett 2i2 is getting. The OD channels also sound much more saturated and full of saturated (almost muddy) distortion. Lowering OD gain does help it clean up, but it still sounds a lot more saturated than though a cab.

Now to add some substance, I made a video of me testing the amp with different Master and Gain (Preamp volume) settings on the Green Clean channel of the JVM 205H. So what are the results, well listen for yourself. The main takeaway for me is that, even though lowering the gain and master to 5 and 2, respectively (loud bedroom level), the clipping like distortion is still heard. The only time I was able to pretty much completely get rid of clipping distortion was with M/G down to 1-2. That is a considerably low level to begin with, something I dont need the Captor X to do comfortably.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1litvdGWyiWtIhvVdesXG9JbMUdhy_GUe/view?usp=drive_link

Now I've tried all kinds of settings with the Captor, Ground loop, no ground loop. I've tried many different built in cabs, mics, and my own IRs. I even tried High in level with the Captor X clipping red (and headphone out turned low). Surprisingly it didn't sound much different apart form being much louder. I have compared my clean sound to many Youtube videos demoing cleans and I cannot hear the same clipping-esque distortion on top.

Is this the fault of the unit or is this expected behavior? Again, I couldn't see anybody else complaining about this type of issue on YT or anywhere else.
 
Good morning @Dawis67

I hope all is well and thanks for getting back to us. Similarly, thank you for taking the time to extensively test all of this.

We would like you to contact our Help Desk so our team of specialists can action a deep-dive on your rig please. Please head over to support.two-notes.com and create a ticket. We have allerted the team that you will be getting in touch and will ensure your ticket is fast tracked.

Thank you and we look forward to hearing from you soon.

Kind regards,

Ross
 
@Dawis67
I have the same problem and I spend pretty much a whole week fiddling with it and some other settings. This effect is also there when using the attenuator and a real cab.

The best tip I can give is to use a shelf filter for the high frequencies in the fx-loop of the amp. Not a great solution, I know, but for low gain and crunch it removes the nasty distortion like effect at around 8kHz or something like that. It's some very specific frequencies after 7kHz that seem to get boosted. I cut pretty hard at those, like -15db or more. Using it in the effects loop has the bonus of removing those before going into the captor, so they get filtered out in the software and headphone out as well, with the downside of loosing some brilliance.

It isn't as distracting for high gain tones, so I remove a bit less of those frequencies then, otherwise it sounds muddy or "blankety".

Hope this helps you or others who might see this. But buying a para-eq is just a band-aid and not a real solution to the problem itself.
Maybe I don't know enough about attenuators and cab sims. I've shown the captor to a friend with more experience in guitar and recording and he liked it a lot. Do with that information what you will.
 
Good afternoon @Black516

Thank you for getting in touch and there are some great tips there! This is a little odd that you can hear the effect through your cabinet as well. May I confirm whether this is apparent on clean tones?

Thank you!
 
Hello @RossJohnDavies
The effect is also there on clean tones, though to a lesser degree. It sounds like it's boosting frequencies around 6-7kHz and up and there is just not enough there to boost with pure cleans to be that noticeable. As soon as even a tiny bit of distortion gets introduced, it amplifies the top end distortion tones. What would normally be a smooth distortion sounds harsh and quickly goes to metal tones where I would normally expect only crunch. It really sounds like clipping, but it's there at any input/output volume and only for those high frequencies and as said before it sounds exactly the same with a real cab and the attenuator. With the attenuator at full it sounds as I would expect. Without distortion it just makes the guitar brighter.

I'm sure I'm exaggerating a bit and I don't have much experience about how mic'ed up cabs sound different, so I give the software with my quite harsh sounding headphones a pass, but I play a lot of stoner/doom and my fuzz pedals don't even sound like fuzzes anymore without cutting alot of the highs. I can get it to sound exactly like without the attenuator, so I know it's just the very highs that are affected.

Hope my explanation is at least somewhat understandable, I can maybe upload sound examples of the real cab with my smartphone if that helps.
 
Hi @Black516, Thanks so much for getting back to me. Hmmm, this is indeed sounding a little odd. Some audio examples would be super useful so we can take a look at these. If you could upload these, and tag me in, or contact our support desk at Support.Two-notes.com. That would be great!
 
@RossJohnDavies
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GHL5pP8UM1-QavIReRf4GUp2n17FHJ5w?usp=sharing
Hope that link works. It sounds worst with crunch, though it is a bit less noticeable on the recordings.
Kinda feels like I'm going insane and I'm probably just overblowing it. Sometimes it's extremely noticeable and sometimes it sounds ok. Maybe it's just me and I'm overreacting, it can be eq'd out after all. Now that I listen to the recordings it's probably normal and I'm just hyperfocused on some minor things.
 
Hi @Black516

Thanks for this - I have just had a listen through the audio. Can you confirm how the audio was recorded and what your settings on the Captor X were please? Thanks so much!
 
Hello @RossJohnDavies
I recorded those with my smartphone, around 15cm in front of the cab. The captor was set to -20db for the files with captor in the name. The other files were recorded in the full mode. I raised the amp volume to compensate for the volume drop. Everything else was the same.
 
Thanks for confirming @Black516 ,

Do you hear the same noise when listening through headphones via the Captor X and using a similar DynIR to the specs of your physical cabinet?
 
@RossJohnDavies
Yes. There is a dynir of my exact cab and I have to say it sounds really close, high frequency noise included. I have heard the sound in some youtube videos as well though, so I assume it's normal.
 
Hi @Black516 ,

Thanks for getting back to me and confirming all of this. This really helps me get to the cause of this. My suspicion is that this is the result of loads interaction between your amp and the reactive load in the Captor X. It isn't anything to worry about in terms of any damage to your amp, however it is something that will need to be accounted for on a tonal level. Essentially, different speakers impart a different impedance curve and as such interact with your amp differently - the same is true of the Captor X. In this instance, your strategies to mitigate this are entirely correct - moreover some tweaking of your amp's tone stack should get you to a place you need to be tonally. Let me know if this helps to clarify things and if there is anything else I can help you with, please do not hesitate to let me know!
 
@RossJohnDavies
I suspected something along those lines, but it's nice to have it confirmed. Thanks!
 
Black516 said:
@Dawis67
I have the same problem and I spend pretty much a whole week fiddling with it and some other settings. This effect is also there when using the attenuator and a real cab.

The best tip I can give is to use a shelf filter for the high frequencies in the fx-loop of the amp. Not a great solution, I know, but for low gain and crunch it removes the nasty distortion like effect at around 8kHz or something like that. It's some very specific frequencies after 7kHz that seem to get boosted. I cut pretty hard at those, like -15db or more. Using it in the effects loop has the bonus of removing those before going into the captor, so they get filtered out in the software and headphone out as well, with the downside of loosing some brilliance.

It isn't as distracting for high gain tones, so I remove a bit less of those frequencies then, otherwise it sounds muddy or "blankety".

Hope this helps you or others who might see this. But buying a para-eq is just a band-aid and not a real solution to the problem itself.
Maybe I don't know enough about attenuators and cab sims. I've shown the captor to a friend with more experience in guitar and recording and he liked it a lot. Do with that information what you will.
Click to expand...
Didn't get around to posting an update after receiving my Captor X replacement, but got a notification after your post, so I might as well document my findings so far.

My gear has been scattered over two different locations, but during this winter holidays I've been able to get my amp, cab, captor x, and my second guitar together and test it all out. Here is what I found. Gear: Marshall 205H, 1936Lead 2x12 cab, LP Classic

Captor X issues: There is undeniably something funky going on with the Captor X itself. I noticed this when switching between Amp->Cab and Amp->Captor X(speaker in/out, no effects)->Cab. The signal gets muddied, saturates much quicker, and is overall less clear but oddly more squeeky with higher end notes. The only other variable than Captor X was the speaker cables connecting it all together, so I crosstested the speaker cables straight from the amp to the cab, both cables sound equivalent. I still think the amp sounds slightly differently even without the Captor X than when I bought it, but unfortunately I do think the Captor X significantly ruins the sound :(. Its much better to use without a real cab, but straight out the XLR or headphones (even though the clipping is there)

Comparing the replacement vs original Captor X unit: The replacement did seem to sound better with amps I've tested at the local music store. I tested 2 different amps, both 20W and while there was slight clipping present, It wasn't as bad as the first unit.

Regarding the EQ suggestion: I don't have any EQ pedals but I tried using Captor X's built in EQ, and it did seem to help, though i found it annoying that there wasn't a single setting for all of the amp channels, and that the filter would inevitably reduce high end clarity.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my Captor X. Its clearly not working as well with my 205H, but of the amps I've tested at the store, its worked better, so I might just get a new amp. I do need some kind of attenuator because I cannot afford to play with a cab at my appartment. :/ A bit of a shame really.
 
Dawis67 said:
Didn't get around to posting an update after receiving my Captor X replacement, but got a notification after your post, so I might as well document my findings so far.

My gear has been scattered over two different locations, but during this winter holidays I've been able to get my amp, cab, captor x, and my second guitar together and test it all out. Here is what I found. Gear: Marshall 205H, 1936Lead 2x12 cab, LP Classic

Captor X issues: There is undeniably something funky going on with the Captor X itself. I noticed this when switching between Amp->Cab and Amp->Captor X(speaker in/out, no effects)->Cab. The signal gets muddied, saturates much quicker, and is overall less clear but oddly more squeeky with higher end notes. The only other variable than Captor X was the speaker cables connecting it all together, so I crosstested the speaker cables straight from the amp to the cab, both cables sound equivalent. I still think the amp sounds slightly differently even without the Captor X than when I bought it, but unfortunately I do think the Captor X significantly ruins the sound :(. Its much better to use without a real cab, but straight out the XLR or headphones (even though the clipping is there)

Comparing the replacement vs original Captor X unit: The replacement did seem to sound better with amps I've tested at the local music store. I tested 2 different amps, both 20W and while there was slight clipping present, It wasn't as bad as the first unit.

Regarding the EQ suggestion: I don't have any EQ pedals but I tried using Captor X's built in EQ, and it did seem to help, though i found it annoying that there wasn't a single setting for all of the amp channels, and that the filter would inevitably reduce high end clarity.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my Captor X. Its clearly not working as well with my 205H, but of the amps I've tested at the store, its worked better, so I might just get a new amp. I do need some kind of attenuator because I cannot afford to play with a cab at my appartment. :/ A bit of a shame really.
Click to expand...
Hi @Dawis67,

Thanks so much for providing an update! We'd love to get this resolved for you - please get back in touch with the Helpdesk and a specialist can take a look at the sound you have now and one previously - https://helpdesk.two-notes.com/portal/en/home
 
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