Carvin PA/FOH Gear Opinions

[IndyWS6]

Greetings
The cover band project that I am working on is essentially starting from scratch when it comes to PA gear and we need to invest in equipment. We are scouring all the typical sources for used gear but haven't found anything suitable and may have to buy a lot of the equipment new (amps, board and cabinets). My idea of a quality setup would be Crown power amps with JBL cabinets and an Allen & Heath or older Mackie board, but the out-of-pocket realities are pushing us towards lower-cost options. Do any of you have experience or opinions on the Carvin gear? Some of the better Peavey gear (SP4's, SP118's) might also be an option.
Thanks in advance...

 

[craftm1]

When I played out we used Peavey for 10 or so years, tough, reliable gear. The last 4 years I purchased a complete Carvin set up, can't remember the models I'll have to look next time I go to my storage facility. I'm really impressed with the Carvin gear, it was also very reliable and heavey duty. I liked it so much I now have two Carvin custom guitars a Legacy and Legacy II amps. I mainly use Legacy Cabinets now for guitar work with either 25 watt greenbacks or vintage 30's in them. I haven't found any better value for the quality in 20+ years. Carvin also stands behind their products, at least the two times I've had questions.

 

[Marshall Law]

check out yamaha pa boards, they are pretty good for the money

 

[threadkiller]

We have been running a carvin board for 5-6 years now and it has been fine though it is starting to show some road wear. The boards are good. I think you can do better on speaker cabs. The yamaha stuff is pretty good at that price point. Don't forget the used market

 

[Greazygeo]

What specs do you need? How many channels, power etc?

 

[IndyWS6]

Craftm1 - I've looked at the Peavey SP4 and SP118 cabinets. They seem like a good value and most of the FOH engineers I've spoken to say it's a solid choice if you're on a budget. They are definitely a possibility.

Threadkiller - If you compare specs and cost, the Carvin boards look pretty good on paper. I've had more than one sound guy tell me that the newer Soundcraft and Mackie boards have significant reliability problems. Apparently the quality control for the overseas manufacturing plants isn't what it should be. One local reseller said about 4 out of every 10 new Mackie boards comes back for repair within 6 months. He recommended the Peavey boards over newer Mackie and Soundcraft gear (he doesn't even sell Peavey...). It's just one opinion, though...
We've been looking at the used stuff for a while now and just haven't had any luck. If it's something worth having, it's either over-priced or beat to hell and makes me question reliability. Plus, most of the stuff that's popping up in my area is low-end gear (Behringer, etc.).

Marshall Law - Thanks for the recommendation - I've heard good things and I'll take a look. I have a Yamaha n8 as my recording mixer and I'm, happy with it.

Greazygea - From a high level, we are looking at:
Board
20 channels (need 20 mic pre's minimum)
4 Sub-Groups
4 Monitor Sends (minimium)
2 Effects Sends
Cabinets
(2) 2x15 w/Horns
(2) 1x18 Subs (for smaller venues (4) 1x18 for larger venues)
OR
(1) 2x18 Sub / (2) 2x18 Subs (smaller / larger venues)
Power
4000 watts (min) for the subs
2000 watts (min) for the 2x15 cabinets
(exact amps/wattage would depend on the cabinets used, but this is a good starting point and should provide enough headroom)

Thanks for the advice and suggestions - keep them coming

 

[threadkiller]

Don't forget you'll need a crossover if you plan to go bi amped and you'll need a snake, factor that into your cost

Peavey PA gear has always been pretty solid stuff

 

[glpg80]

Don't forget you'll need a crossover if you plan to go bi amped and you'll need a snake, factor that into your cost

Peavey PA gear has always been pretty solid stuff

+1

DBX crossovers have always worked for us

 

[glpg80]

Craftm1 - I've looked at the Peavey SP4 and SP118 cabinets. They seem like a good value and most of the FOH engineers I've spoken to say it's a solid choice if you're on a budget. They are definitely a possibility.

Threadkiller - If you compare specs and cost, the Carvin boards look pretty good on paper. I've had more than one sound guy tell me that the newer Soundcraft and Mackie boards have significant reliability problems. Apparently the quality control for the overseas manufacturing plants isn't what it should be. One local reseller said about 4 out of every 10 new Mackie boards comes back for repair within 6 months. He recommended the Peavey boards over newer Mackie and Soundcraft gear (he doesn't even sell Peavey...). It's just one opinion, though...
We've been looking at the used stuff for a while now and just haven't had any luck. If it's something worth having, it's either over-priced or beat to hell and makes me question reliability. Plus, most of the stuff that's popping up in my area is low-end gear (Behringer, etc.).

Marshall Law - Thanks for the recommendation - I've heard good things and I'll take a look. I have a Yamaha n8 as my recording mixer and I'm, happy with it.

Greazygea - From a high level, we are looking at:
Board
20 channels (need 20 mic pre's minimum)
4 Sub-Groups
4 Monitor Sends (minimium)
2 Effects Sends
Cabinets
(2) 2x15 w/Horns
(2) 1x18 Subs (for smaller venues (4) 1x18 for larger venues)
OR
(1) 2x18 Sub / (2) 2x18 Subs (smaller / larger venues)
Power
4000 watts (min) for the subs
2000 watts (min) for the 2x15 cabinets
(exact amps/wattage would depend on the cabinets used, but this is a good starting point and should provide enough headroom)

Thanks for the advice and suggestions - keep them coming

Crest > Crown

http://www.crestaudio.com

highly recommend them. turn on/off load disconnect so that you dont hear popping. tons of other features.

for your subs run QSC's series of power amplifiers and dont turn back. excellent build quality and features.

DBX makes 8 channel crossovers for your mids highs and lows - they do the job well.

for sub's i recommend 18's and get a bandpass, bassband, or even better a folded horn box design. the reason why is less THD distortion, deeper lows, and the perceived volume is higher than the actual volume - its simillar to car stereo bass box designs. a much deeper and stronger bass compared to regular enclosed boxes. id recommend cerwin-vega, and if you can afford it - EAW. i have heard 6 EAW's running off of QSC's before when a local radio station came to town with their own PA and i have never heard such powerful bass outdoors in my life. it was just over the top - a case where someone needed to turn it down and this is in front of 15,000 people soaking it up. i was stage-side. they move some serious air and were also folded horn designs.

for mains i recommend staying away from peavey - we ran dual 15/horn towers from them and the black widow speakers were always frying coils from overheating - we were well within the rated wattage rating and the fuses were working as they are supposed to - but they had more down time than anything else and of course peavey was slow to ship the replacement speakers under warranty.

peavey's PA mixing boards have been awsome though - we ran a 16 channel board from them without a problem, and in another band i was gun hired for, they ran the larger 32 channel board without any problems as well. for the money it works great and sounds great - does what it is supposed to do without breaking the bank.

back to mains - id recommend first electro-voice (EV's) - second JBLs. EV's i have experience with and sound phenominal. when i start building my own PA up EV's will be doing the mains and highs work exclusively - ive heard how they sound and the clarity they produce and at 3-4k watts you wont be leaving with a headache - its very clear and nothing that bites your head off.

i recommend spending your money on a decent EQ - something to tune feedback frequencies out and EQ the whole mix. get one for each crossover - mains, subs, etc - and make sure you arent increasing the dB's going to the power amplifiers or else you could overrun the speakers. its to help them not amplify feedback frequencies or offending frequencies. there are other products called feedback ferrets that some people use - but i have no experience with them.

for on stage monitors i would run peavey's - because you'll be sticking your feet on them and only need it for vocal reference use so you can hear yourself if you need. if you want to spend money here i would recommend JBL's over EV's to save money.

then add in your snakes.

ive been doing sound board for bands in my area for years, ran PA setups for churches, and know a few companies that do it professionally for venues.

if money was no concern you could run yamaha mixing boards and yamaha power amplifiers for mains - but the experience and what i know from crest will save your pockets in the long run

hope this helps

 

[Greazygeo]

Greazygea - From a high level, we are looking at:
Board
20 channels (need 20 mic pre's minimum)
4 Sub-Groups
4 Monitor Sends (minimium)
2 Effects Sends
Cabinets
(2) 2x15 w/Horns
(2) 1x18 Subs (for smaller venues (4) 1x18 for larger venues)
OR
(1) 2x18 Sub / (2) 2x18 Subs (smaller / larger venues)
Power
4000 watts (min) for the subs
2000 watts (min) for the 2x15 cabinets
(exact amps/wattage would depend on the cabinets used, but this is a good starting point and should provide enough headroom)

Thanks for the advice and suggestions - keep them coming

I'd recommend not going with top boxes that have 2-15's in them if you are going to use subs. Those cabs are more for DJ apps without subs.

Something you may not have thought of is Yorkville Elite speakers...get a pair of LS1208's and one 2000 watts per side power amp, they crush. I ran a pair of the powered cabs in large clubs and never ran out of gas. Or a pair of the LS 1004 For tops they make an E152 thats a 1-15" with a 2" horn, very smooth sounding, may want 4 of these and run about 1200 watts each. Their line of powered speakers are fantastic sounding and very efficient.

The Crown XTi power amps are nice and they have built in processing so you won't need crossovers/ compressors etc....Peavey have a line of amps that are similar.

For a mixer I'd look for a used Allen and Heath GL 2400/ 3200....you'll love it!

I don't care for Carvin or Mackie stuff....but it depends on your budget.

 

[Greazygeo]

for mains i recommend staying away from peavey - we ran dual 15/horn towers from them and the black widow speakers were always frying coils from overheating - we were well within the rated wattage rating and the fuses were working as they are supposed to - but they had more down time than anything else and of course peavey was slow to ship the replacement speakers under warranty.

I'm guessing you were using these with subs?

 

[glpg80]

for mains i recommend staying away from peavey - we ran dual 15/horn towers from them and the black widow speakers were always frying coils from overheating - we were well within the rated wattage rating and the fuses were working as they are supposed to - but they had more down time than anything else and of course peavey was slow to ship the replacement speakers under warranty.

I'm guessing you were using these with subs?

didnt use these 15's with subs - ran vocals only with them and still had these problems.

if we had the money, i would have coaxed the bass player to sell the 15 towers and get 12's on stands and run two subs with stage monitors. that would have been plenty for what we were playing and where we practiced.

i do agree with what you said about 15's and subs - you'll get a boomy character in the vocals that you wont be able to dial out. 15's in the mains work great for music/DJ use but for anything guitar wise/vocals 12"s are plenty and will do a better job.

also agree carvin and mackie stuff is pretty bad, especially mackie

 

[IndyWS6]

Threadkiller & GLPG80 - Noted... A DBX crossover is already at the top of the list. They seem to be recommend by a lot of people and aren't terribly expensive in the grand scheme of things. I'm also looking for options for snakes which, unfortunately, are ridiculously expensive for what they are. If anyone has suggestions on a good source for a well-built reasonably-priced snake, I'm all ears.

GLPG80 - Thanks for the detailed response. I hadn't considered Crest Audio but I will take a look. I've heard mixed reviews of QSC's, but don't have any first-hand experience. With your recommendation, I will take another look at them. When it comes to main cabinets, I need to get the best bang for the buck that I can. Most likely, I'll be footing the bill for the PA. At best, my drummer will go in half with me, so cost is definitely a consideration. EAW's are just too expensive - I'm thinking about something comparable to the JBL MRX series. The SRX cabinets would be great, but are just out of my price range right now. What do you think of the Carvin cabinets? Specifically, the TRX153N and TRX218N. Thanks for the info on the Peavey board. I took a serious look at it and it seems solid. I've had a ton of Peavey gear over the years and have rarely been disappointed. Right now I'm comparing the Peavey 24FX and the Carvin C2448. They are the same price, but the Carvin has two additional monitor sends, among other things. They both look like solid choices...

Keep the info coming

 

[IndyWS6]

Greazygeo - I'll take a look at the Yorkville Elite's. I don't know that I've ever seen any.
Also, I'm a little confused - are you saying that it's best to run a cabinet with dual 12's instead of dual 15's if you are also running separate subs?

Thanks

 

[Greazygeo]

for mains i recommend staying away from peavey - we ran dual 15/horn towers from them and the black widow speakers were always frying coils from overheating - we were well within the rated wattage rating and the fuses were working as they are supposed to - but they had more down time than anything else and of course peavey was slow to ship the replacement speakers under warranty.

I'm guessing you were using these with subs?

didnt use these 15's with subs - ran vocals only with them and still had these problems.

i do agree with what you said about 15's and subs - you'll get a boomy character in the vocals that you wont be able to dial out. 15's in the mains work great for music/DJ use but for anything guitar wise/vocals 12"s are plenty and will do a better job.

also agree carvin and mackie stuff is pretty bad, especially mackie

I had some JBL MP412's that were used for monitors mostly...they sounded great. Used them once in awhile for tops in smaller rooms.

I like single 15's/ horns for the tops when they are crossed over right and a bit of eqing, 2-15" cabs are pretty worthless IMO. Too much overlap and phase issues.

The PV SP series are ok for the money pretty basic sounding, the 2-18 subs didnt have much output. They are way too big and heavy for me to deal with.

The Yorkville Elite stuff flies under the radar, but it's great stuff. The subs are amazing!

 

[Greazygeo]

Greazygeo - I'll take a look at the Yorkville Elite's. I don't know that I've ever seen any.
Also, I'm a little confused - are you saying that it's best to run a cabinet with dual 12's instead of dual 15's if you are also running separate subs?

Thanks

www.yorkville.com is the website. Look at the Elite stuff.

No if you are using subs, whatever tops you go with (12's or 15's) make sure you don't get a top box that has dual woofers....they cause nothing but headaches. Those dual woofer cabs are intended to be run without subs most times. You'll run into all kinds of freq overlap and phase issues.

 

[glpg80]

maybe greazygeo can offer some guidelines for carvin and mackie - but ive always steered away from them, ive never seen anyone use their boards or speakers and i dont have any experience with them - so i cant say anything yes or no.

im sure others can pipe in and help you out. money wise i have messed with the worst of the worst and the best of the best, and you do get what you pay for. you dont want paint chipping, poor screen designs over speakers, poor speaker quality, poor thd numbers, not enough headroom, etc. id recommend spending money up front and not trying to take any corners, and adding onto what you have in the future as you need it. just my personal opinion. but i have to give it to you for taking up the challenge of the PA - your drummer as well. thats a whole different ballgame than guitar gear and can get as expensive if not more real quick.

also dont forget about speaker cables and speakon connectors - that adds up too. more than you would think - definately throw those in with the cost area of the snakes.

also decide if the reverb and effects stuff built into the mixing board will be good enough for vocal use, and whether you want to run a compressor and an effects unit like a g-major for vocals.

just tossing ideas that ive used (didnt own but used) or seen others use before.

 

[glpg80]

Greazygeo - I'll take a look at the Yorkville Elite's. I don't know that I've ever seen any.
Also, I'm a little confused - are you saying that it's best to run a cabinet with dual 12's instead of dual 15's if you are also running separate subs?

Thanks

www.yorkville.com is the website. Look at the Elite stuff.

No if you are using subs, whatever tops you go with (12's or 15's) make sure you don't get a top box that has dual woofers....they cause nothing but headaches. Those dual woofer cabs are intended to be run without subs most times. You'll run into all kinds of freq overlap and phase issues.

yeah yorkville i can vouch for - have heard of them before and havent heard anything bad at all that i can ever remember.

i also recommend not doing the dual 15 setup like we did, the damn towers are heavy and cumbersom and we had nothing but problems - just three stage monitors and those two towers were a hand full. id recommend 12's with horns on stands, at least thats what i would do with subs.

 

[Greazygeo]

GLPG80 - Thanks for the detailed response. I hadn't considered Crest Audio but I will take a look. I've heard mixed reviews of QSC's, but don't have any first-hand experience. With your recommendation, I will take another look at them. When it comes to main cabinets, I need to get the best bang for the buck that I can. Most likely, I'll be footing the bill for the PA. At best, my drummer will go in half with me, so cost is definitely a consideration. EAW's are just too expensive - I'm thinking about something comparable to the JBL MRX series. The SRX cabinets would be great, but are just out of my price range right now. What do you think of the Carvin cabinets? Specifically, the TRX153N and TRX218N. Thanks for the info on the Peavey board. I took a serious look at it and it seems solid. I've had a ton of Peavey gear over the years and have rarely been disappointed. Right now I'm comparing the Peavey 24FX and the Carvin C2448. They are the same price, but the Carvin has two additional monitor sends, among other things. They both look like solid choices...

Keep the info coming

Crest is made by PV if you didn't know...Crest, QSC, PV, Crown all make good stuff....If you go Crown don't get the cheap ones, they are very light duty DJ type stuff.

The PV24FX is a nice board, much better than Carvin....I'm a PV / Yorkville delaer and can get most anything else if you need help finding anything. RAPCO and CBI make good snakes.

 

[glpg80]

just added you, didnt know you had a store - definately will help a fellow RT'er out and ill get any future PA stuff through you