Celestion EVH compared to '90s and current G12M

[cardinal]

I have some cabs with the '90s "Made In England" G12M. I had one recently with the current "Made in U.K." G12M. They sounded mostly the same, but there was something different about the top end.

How do the EVH speakers (the Heritage G12M) compare to either of these versions? Are they essentially the same or just a different creature?

 

[Racerxrated]

I'd imagine any UK made GB today is the same as the EVH, which is the same as the Heritage. Yes they have a 'softer' top end (how I hear it) while the 6402s from the 90s are very close to the 74-76 Creambacks...at least that's how I heard them when I had both cabs side by side. I much prefer the 6402s to ANY GB (including black backs) going back to the 74 cream backs which sound almost identical to them. Those 90s/early 2000s British made GBs are stellar.

 

[mixn4him]

Nope Heritages are Heritages and have been the same for a long time and always made in England, Regular Greenbacks have had some variations over the years beyond where they were made. There was a cone difference that was supposed to be closer to Vintage spec but they went back I think when the whole MIC thing started for GB's and V30's. EVH speakers are Heritages with the EVH magnet cover..

 

[crwnedblasphemy]

Weird cuz I have heard clips and I can hear a difference between the EVHs and Heritages. The EVH seems just a tad more rolled off. My question is I just saw a couple days ago that the classic G12m is now since 2018 being produced in the UK again instead of china. I actually kinda dug the china ones. Wondered if the current UK ones are similar, better, worse, same? Thanks for any input....rock on gents.

 

[Racerxrated]

Weird cuz I have heard clips and I can hear a difference between the EVHs and Heritages. The EVH seems just a tad more rolled off. My question is I just saw a couple days ago that the classic G12m is now since 2018 being produced in the UK again instead of china. I actually kinda dug the china ones. Wondered if the current UK ones are similar, better, worse, same? Thanks for any input....rock on gents.

I can say that when it comes to the H30 anniversary, which are also back to being made in England they are far less 'harsh' on the top end, more pleasing to play out of the box compared to a MIC pair I bought long ago. I bought a new pair a year ago. I'd imagine the M25 would sound pretty good too.
But, maybe the high end out of the MIC versions would be missed?

 

[Racerxrated]

Nope Heritages are Heritages and have been the same for a long time and always made in England, Regular Greenbacks have had some variations over the years beyond where they were made. There was a cone difference that was supposed to be closer to Vintage spec but they went back I think when the whole MIC thing started for GB's and V30's. EVH speakers are Heritages with the EVH magnet cover..

The 6402 I believe is that cone. Too bad they stopped making them. Although, I have read that the last British made M25s before the move to China, in 2001-2 used 1777 cones (I think) and sounded the same as the 6402s according to what I've read. I did have a 2000 BX cab with 6402s and that cab sounded nearly identical to the 74 Marshall slant with original cream backs.

 

[cardinal]

Yeah, I have some from the '90s with 6402 cone. I played a cab from 2013 with G12Ms with a sticker saying Made In U.K. and the cones said 53H1777 or something like that.

The new ones sounded fine but the top end was a bit different. Given the choice, I'd rather the 6402s.

So just wondering how the Heritage G12M/G12EVH slots in there. It does have a different stamp on the cone, IIRC.

 

[Exo-metal]

The creamback celestions are the best sounding speaker I own, the equal is the early 90s G12H-30 anniversary...I'm certain older RIC cones have the it factor but are far more rare and for that you will pay a price.

 

[Markedman]

 

[NewWorldMan]

The ‘90s GBs with 6402s are my favorites as well. I have a ‘76 Blackback cab that went through hell and back that sounds great, but aside from that it’s the 6402s. I’ve had pre-Rola, RIC, just about everything.

I had a couple of 2000-2001 cabs with UK GBs that had 1777s before production moved to China. They sounded pretty close to the 6402s I had at the time.

 

[sahlomonic]

I have a mid 80's 1960A loaded with X Pattern '78 Blackbacks and EVH (previously had regular G12M prior to the EVH). Blackbacks are just awesome speakers. They just give this certain "sizzle" and warmth that I find lacking in current production GBs - but then again it could be the Blackbacks have literally decades of break-in.

 

[Racerxrated]

I’ve had 3 black back cabs; 2 with M25s and one with H30s. If you can put the screws to them they sound nice..but I felt they sounded pretty flat at lower volumes. At least compared to other cabs like the 74s I owned

 

[harddriver]

I’ve had 3 black back cabs; 2 with M25s and one with H30s. If you can put the screws to them they sound nice..but I felt they sounded pretty flat at lower volumes. At least compared to other cabs like the 74s I owned

^^^^^^^^^^
My experience with Blackback 12M25's exactly. My 78 1960 cabinet that has the original Blackback 25 watters 75hz speakers really need to be pushed with volume to sound their best otherwise they are kind of wooly, and undefined(FLAT-Racers's term) sounding when driven at low volumes.

I don't think it is much of a surprise that I had the same experience with Scumback M65's which led me down the road to a 55HZ Celestion Heritage 12H-30's which have this woody tone compared to the 75HZ which sound killer as well.

Now everyone says the Pulsonic 0014 coned greenback are all together a different animal of which I have not had the pleasure of playing so I can't comment either way on the pulsonics but I do love my 55hz and 75hz Celestion Heritage speakers and both new quads sounded great right out of the box.

I also had a quad of 6402's back around 2009 and I didn't find them much different than my blackbacks and scumbacks at lower volumes. At higher volumes all of them sounded better.

Even my Made in England Anniversary 12H-30's sounded extremely harsh pre and post break in but again YMMV.

 

[cardinal]

Thanks! I'm basically looking at the EVH/Heritage G12M because they are current production and am hoping they are closer to the 6402 cone thing than the "normal" G12M in current production. Those sound fine but there was a bit of a difference.

I have some black backs too which sound glorious but I'm a nervous wreck with them at even moderate volume.

 

[Racerxrated]

^^^^^^^^^^
My experience with Blackback 12M25's exactly. My 78 1960 cabinet that has the original Blackback 25 watters 75hz speakers really need to be pushed with volume to sound their best otherwise they are kind of wooly, and undefined(FLAT-Racers's term) sounding when driven at low volumes.

I don't think it is much of a surprise that I had the same experience with Scumback M65's which led me down the road to a 55HZ Celestion Heritage 12H-30's which have this woody tone compared to the 75HZ which sound killer as well.

Now everyone says the Pulsonic 0014 coned greenback are all together a different animal of which I have not had the pleasure of playing so I can't comment either way on the pulsonics but I do love my 55hz and 75hz Celestion Heritage speakers and both new quads sounded great right out of the box.

I also had a quad of 6402's back around 2009 and I didn't find them much different than my blackbacks and scumbacks at lower volumes. At higher volumes all of them sounded better.

Even my Made in England Anniversary 12H-30's sounded extremely harsh pre and post break in but again YMMV.

Right at the start of Covid I bought my 72 Trem, and a month after found a matching 72 slant with M25 Pulsonics. They have a warmth and ‘chewyiness’ that is unique to any other speaker I’ve tried. Even compared to my 2 1963 Alnico Blues; but they have a 3D quality that is all their own. I got all these for half of what they go for these days; luckily

 

[PDC]

I don’t want to hijack, but what is the consensus on the closest sounding speaker to the G12EVH (OG 20-Watt Greenback) that can handle 50 watts or more?

LOVE my G12EVH loaded 4x12 more than any cab I’ve ever tried. I’ve got a 2x12 that I’m trying to get to sound as close as possible, but i sometimes run a 100 watt head through the 2x12 and 40 watts total ain’t gonna cut it.

I keep coming back to the 65 watt G12M Creamback - Scumback offers the M75 in a 65 watt variant. Wondering what the consensus is on these two?

 

[harddriver]

I would recommend Celestion Heritage 12H-30 55Hz speakers or maybe a Scumback higher wattage 55Hz 12H-30's from Jim if you feel you want a higher wattage speaker, the 55HZ IMHO makes most of the difference to my ears, more woody and chewy more akin to the Pulsonic 0014 coned greenbacks, I would love to compare them side by side but I have absolutely no regrets with the 12H-30 55hz heritages.

My experience with my Scumback M65 which are 65 watts each was they need even more volume than my blackbacks to get into the zone where I liked them pretty much the same with the 6402's and my Blackbacks which I still have.

From Scumback on the BM55:

BH55
		50 ounce H (heavy magnet), 55hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 444 bass cone, with the more aggressive lower & upper midrange and sharper highs this speaker produced. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the checkerboard cloth Marshall cabs of the mid to late 70's. These speakers differ from my pre rola speakers by having a more aggressive upper midrange tone, with a bit more upper mids, and not quite as dark as H55's. Awesome for players who want a bit more bite. ​ Specially treated 55hz cone. Blackback era style doping just like the originals. 50 oz magnet, 1.75" voice coil, 12" wide. 8 bolt pattern allows mounting to most amps. Available in 30, 65 & 100 watt, 99 db. 8 ohm & 16 ohm only.

 

[psychodave]

I would recommend Celestion Heritage 12H-30 55Hz speakers or maybe a Scumback higher wattage 55Hz 12H-30's from Jim if you feel you want a higher wattage speaker, the 55HZ IMHO makes most of the difference to my ears, more woody and chewy more akin to the Pulsonic 0014 coned greenbacks, I would love to compare them side by side but I have absolutely no regrets with the 12H-30 55hz heritages.

My experience with my Scumback M65 which are 65 watts each was they need even more volume than my blackbacks to get into the zone where I liked them pretty much the same with the 6402's and my Blackbacks which I still have.

From Scumback on the BM55:

BH55
		50 ounce H (heavy magnet), 55hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 444 bass cone, with the more aggressive lower & upper midrange and sharper highs this speaker produced. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the checkerboard cloth Marshall cabs of the mid to late 70's. These speakers differ from my pre rola speakers by having a more aggressive upper midrange tone, with a bit more upper mids, and not quite as dark as H55's. Awesome for players who want a bit more bite. ​ Specially treated 55hz cone. Blackback era style doping just like the originals. 50 oz magnet, 1.75" voice coil, 12" wide. 8 bolt pattern allows mounting to most amps. Available in 30, 65 & 100 watt, 99 db. 8 ohm & 16 ohm only.

I hated those Heritage H30's with 55hz. I have two 4x12's with them. At one point I was going to add doping to them hoping they would sound better, but I just ended up selling them off.

 

[harddriver]

I hated those Heritage H30's with 55hz. I have two 4x12's with them. At one point I was going to add doping to them hoping they would sound better, but I just ended up selling them off.

I know you have the Anniversary 12H-30 75hz and I have to say they sound great in all the clips you have posted of them. I bought a quad of MIE Anniversary 12H-30's and they sounded nothing like my original 1979 1982A cabinet with the original 12H-30 75Hz Blackbacks so I guess I have to chalk it up to lack of consistency on Celestion's part. For me the 55HZ 12H-30 heritage is really good for EVH it doesn't have that wooly quality to it that my blackback 75hz 12M25's have at lower volumes that I play at mostly now and my 75HZ 12H-30 heritages sounds great for all around styles just less woody/chewy, less lows but same mid and high bite yet still have some warmth to them and really do sound close to my 1979 original Blackback 12H-30's cab just a tad tighter a newer. Did I get a lucky and get a good sounding batch of Heritages?... it's quite possible. I have posted clips of my Heritage 55HZ of that cabinet only, the 75Hz Heritages are less woody but sound great as well.

I'd love to try Jims take on the Blackbacks but I am fairly satisfied since I finished loading my last two 4x12's with the Heritage 55 and 75hz. If people need a higher wattage type of greenback or 12H-30 I think Jim at Scumback would be the way to go since the Heritages are $200.00 a pop and 30 watt each.

I really do wish the Anniversaries would have been more like the Heritages but to my ears circa 2009-2010 they weren't even close, the anniversaries I had were strident and grating in the highs and quite unpleasant. Was is just that production run that I got that sounded this way?... anything is possible. I bought the Heritages in 2019 so who knows? If so I am glad I got lucky...

 

[cardinal]

The Anniversary speakers are almost like a V30. It seems like the same cone and magnet but a difference voice coil. They are not at all the same as the old G12H, which is what the Heritage G12H speakers are supposed to replicate (they did make G12H Heritage speakers with both 55 and 75 Hz cones, but the 55s are more common).