Dark amp, treble up Vs. Bright amp, treble down

[guitarslinger]

When I think of a dark amp, I think IE-4, channel 4.

When I think of a bright amp, I think Soldano SP-77.

GO

 

[felineguitars]

Thats a tough one Gene
MY EG 3/4 is a touch too dark (till I do the cap mod)
The Soldano SP77 I had was too bright and didnt inspire me so much

Probably dark amp brightened up rather than the toppy one turned down

 

[Anonymous]

Amazing. Dead heat. I really honestly prefer dark amp treble down. I am a treble nazi though.

 

[jmgman69]

How about neutral

 

[muudrock]

One thing to say.....

EG3/4 baby!

 

[bruce egnater]

Interesting question. Answer is not as simple as one would think. As with any amp, there is a lot of interaction between knobs, circuits etc. Here's how amp designers trick/manipulate you (egnater included). Take for example the SL2 and EG4 modules. Those two circuits are very similar but for one major component. Yes, it's the 1000p (.001u) capacitor on the tube socket board. If you were to put that 1000p cap in a SL2 module, it would be much like the EG4, tone wise. Since the EG4 is viewed as sort of a solo sound, making it smoother/darker makes sense. The "trick" part of this that by cutting the high end in the preamp, it forces you to turn the treble knob up to get the brightness you want. By nature, with the normal passive tone controls (Fender, Marshall Vox etc....), when you turn the treble knob up the "cutoff" frequency goes down. This simply means that as you turn up the treble, it goes more into the midrange and creates a more pleasant, singing sort of tone. On the other hand, if your amp is very bright or you simply turn the bright switch on, the tendency will be to reduce the treble knob setting. This, in turn, has the opposite effect and makes the overall tone have much less midrangy and typically better for chords and chunkin'. So, it really depends on your playing style, the song, the type of music etc. etc. Hey, I have an idea. Find an amp that has some sort of "modular" design where you can choose the sound you want so you are not stuck with your amp sounding too dark or too bright permanently.

Egnater

 

[RockStarNick]

Hey, I have an idea. Find an amp that has some sort of "modular" design where you can choose the sound you want so you are not stuck with your amp sounding too dark or too bright permanently.

Egnater

This is a brilliant idea! How come no one has thought of this yet???

 

[guitarslinger]

Take for example the SL2 and EG4 modules. Those two circuits are very similar but for one major component. Yes, it's the 1000p (.001u) capacitor on the tube socket board. If you were to put that 1000p cap in a SL2 module, it would be much like the EG4, tone wise.

Egnater

So, in other words, If I put a huge cap in that spot on my SL2, it can be more like EG 6/8??

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would rather not screw with my EG 3/4, since I think it's a masterpiece

 

[marvcus]

Hey, I have an idea. Find an amp that has some sort of "modular" design where you can choose the sound you want so you are not stuck with your amp sounding too dark or too bright permanently.

Egnater

This is a brilliant idea! How come no one has thought of this yet???

I think Seymour Duncan has a convertible amp that does this...

 

[bruce egnater]

Yes, EG6/8.... I have a friend here, Duffy King, who has an old IE4 preamp. Channel 4 is basically the "4" of EG3/4. He used a Yamaha Pacifica guitar, as well as others. He played so hard the everything always sounded way too bright. We ended up putting a 2200pF (.0022u) in that same stage to get the right high end for him. It sounds way too dark for most other players but just right for Duffy. Again, no hard and fast rules. Do whatever sounds right and works for you.

 

[Szar]

BOTH!

CAN ANYONE SAY STEREO RIG?!

 

[Anonymous]

BOTH!

CAN ANYONE SAY STEREO RIG?!

Accept no substitutes.

 

[guitarslinger]

Um, yeah. I just got lost playing for like an hour with the EG 6/8



sounds AWESOME. It sounds like good Deftones, but with one of the best lead sounds. I've ever heard. If the 3/4 is smokey, this is like a piano bar in the 20's. Crazy, amazing overtones. VERY pick sensitive. Infinite sustain. I'm excited.

 

[Anonymous]

Um, yeah. I just got lost playing for like an hour with the EG 6/8

This coming fromt he guy who coined the thread title: "Does anybody else feel no desire to mod Eggy mods?" PostPosted: Fri, Nov 28, 2008 11:46am.

My birthday no less. You doing an about face Gene? What gives?

 

[jmgman69]

Um, yeah. I just got lost playing for like an hour with the EG 6/8

This coming fromt he guy who coined the thread title: "Does anybody else feel no desire to mod Eggy mods?" PostPosted: Fri, Nov 28, 2008 11:46am.

My birthday no less. You doing an about face Gene? What gives?

It's addicting!

 

[guitarslinger]

yes and no.

I've always felt the SL2 was the most boring of all the dual modules I've kept. Plus, my soldering looks REALLY nice. I'm surprised. I guess the Weller WES51 really is key.

The 6/8 mod is crazy.

 

[broknstuff]

Hey, I have an idea. Find an amp that has some sort of "modular" design where you can choose the sound you want so you are not stuck with your amp sounding too dark or too bright permanently.

Egnater

haha That's why I love and will never part with my mod series!

 

[felineguitars]

Interesting question. Answer is not as simple as one would think. As with any amp, there is a lot of interaction between knobs, circuits etc. Here's how amp designers trick/manipulate you (egnater included). Take for example the SL2 and EG4 modules. Those two circuits are very similar but for one major component. Yes, it's the 1000p (.001u) capacitor on the tube socket board. If you were to put that 1000p cap in a SL2 module, it would be much like the EG4, tone wise. Since the EG4 is viewed as sort of a solo sound, making it smoother/darker makes sense. The "trick" part of this that by cutting the high end in the preamp, it forces you to turn the treble knob up to get the brightness you want. By nature, with the normal passive tone controls (Fender, Marshall Vox etc....), when you turn the treble knob up the "cutoff" frequency goes down. This simply means that as you turn up the treble, it goes more into the midrange and creates a more pleasant, singing sort of tone. On the other hand, if your amp is very bright or you simply turn the bright switch on, the tendency will be to reduce the treble knob setting. This, in turn, has the opposite effect and makes the overall tone have much less midrangy and typically better for chords and chunkin'. So, it really depends on your playing style, the song, the type of music etc. etc. Hey, I have an idea. Find an amp that has some sort of "modular" design where you can choose the sound you want so you are not stuck with your amp sounding too dark or too bright permanently.

Egnater

Bruce - on the SL2 I have a smaller cap in the c1 slot on the tube-board, whilst on the EG3/4 I have the stock 1000pF in the C2 slot

Looking at the tracks on the back of the boards it looks like those two capacitor slots are just parallelled up
Is the smaller C1 cap on the sl2 doing a similar job to the C2 on the Sl2 ? (albeit with different frequency results because of the size of cap)

What effect would adding a cap in parallel have to the sound (do parallel caps just add capacitance value ? - thus two 1000pF in parallel makes 2000pF, compared to resistance where a division of value takes place )

BTW - has the SW1 switch ever been used?

 

[felineguitars]

Actually Bruce raises some interesting points
Many of us already know that the majority of classic tube amps have pretty similar layouts
Looking at all the modules I have - only 6 for now (more to follow) I can see that Bruce has been clever with the layout of the circuitboards enabling him to use the same board for a number of different sonic results
Certain modules need their own board but many follow similar lines with differing component values giving us the modules we so love
I can see that in theory certain modules could be transformed into another with careful swapping out of components

I can also see that Bruce could make slight variants of circuits depending upon changing a few values
I can see where the R&D and testing comes into play ( Jeff H having to play Ratt's lay it down 100 times while Bruce tweaked components on he EG5 to perfection)

I can see that these modules (and the single channel Eggies and Randalls ) could be a tweakers paradise.
But I am glad that Bruce and Jeff have such good ears as I don't want to mess with many of my modules
I do however want a few more modules either ready tweaked by Bruce or modded by whoever to give me even more great tones

Here are the circuit-boards used in the modules I have - see which ones have similarities
Hope Bruce doesn't mind me showing this (any of us could look at the boards)

T/D = T/D REV 1.2 5/21/07
Bman = RLY_DS12 REV1.1 9/20/05
VX=
SL=
COD = RLY_COD REV1.0 06/21/06
Erect =
SL2 = RLY_DS12 REV1.1 9/20/05
EG3/4= RLY_DS12 REV1.1 9/20/05
EG5 = RLY_DS12 REV1.1 9/20/05
MHG =

 

[jlbaxe]

I can see that these modules (and the single channel Eggies and Randalls ) could be a tweakers paradise.
But I am glad that Bruce and Jeff have such good ears as I don't want to mess with many of my modules
I do however want a few more modules either ready tweaked by Bruce or modded by whoever to give me even more great tones

I agree I don't want to change any of the 10 dual modules I have but would like to get some modded ones to add to the collection. A Dave Mustaine/ Freidman dual mod, Steve Vai/ Alice in chains (Carvin Legacy/Bogner Type) and a few more custom mods. Bruce and Jeff and the rest of the Egnater crew behind the scenes.