Dead fret? Not sure how to tell, what can I do to fix?

[maddnotez]

I have posted this on other forums so some of you may have already seen this. Just trying to get as many opinions as I can.

I am getting a lifeless note. It's on the 15th fret of the high E string. I've had the guitar for a few weeks now and am just noticing this. I have changed the strings a couple of times and have made a couple adjustments to the bridge and neck.

I'm getting a note on the fret but it just doesn't sound right. Not clear, lower volume and almost buzzy. You can't notice it at all unless you're playing really slow, just hit the note and let it ring out. That's literally the only way to hear it. If you're just playing a normal run or anything else it sounds fine but hit that one note and hold it and it sounds off. This is acoustically BTW I haven't plugged it into my rig yet since it is not at home.

The neck and bridge are both adjusted properly with perfect intonation and this is really bugging me Because the guitar is really really nice.

I'm going to get a fret rocker and measuring tool to see if there is a high fret and maybe give it some more relief tonight but what are your thoughts?

When I got the guitar it was used but in VGC. It came in standard tuning with 9's. I put 12's on it, tuned to drop C, slightly adjusted neck with relief for business card trick and bridge to taste.

I broke the low E string within a week so I just put new strings on it. These are 11-49 because the 12's felt big to me. Readjusted the neck. I adjust the bridge to what feels good to my fingers.

The only weird thing that I did is that the high E string that's giving me issues I noticed I had played for an hour or so after the restring and it was not seated properly in the saddle. Instead of being in the slot it was just a bit off. Still on the saddle but not in the slot. I just popped it back into the slit. I wouldn't think that would be such an issue to create a dead note.

I have been told sometimes there is nothing you can do, not all guitars are perfect and it may be just the way the resonance happens with this guitar. I have been told it is possibly a high fret and I should sand it down a little. (buying a fret gauge soon to check first) and I have had 2 people so far tell me that they have also had this same exact issue with the same guitar.

Anyway, as I stated I am going to give it some more relief tonight after work and maybe raise the bridge back up again to see if that helps but are there any other opinions or ideas?

 

[cardinal]

Firmly plant the headstock against something heavy like a desk or a door jam and play the note. Does it sustain now? If so, the problem is not the fret or the set up. It would be a resonance-based dead spot and there is very little you can do about it. It's inherent in the guitar. Best you can hope for is to move it around by placing or removing weight from certain spots on the headstock.

I've found that with dead spots, you can ring enough sustain out of it by using your ring finger to fret the note and using as much of the rest of your hand to grip the neck while you vibrato. That seems to dampen the neck a touch and lets the note sustain a touch longer.

Good luck, but try not to obsess over it. The note probably sustains well enough at other spots on the neck.

 

[maddnotez]

Firmly plant the headstock against something heavy like a desk or a door jam and play the note. Does it sustain now? If so, the problem is not the fret or the set up. It would be a resonance-based dead spot and there is very little you can do about it. It's inherent in the guitar. Best you can hope for is to move it around by placing or removing weight from certain spots on the headstock.

I've found that with dead spots, you can ring enough sustain out of it by using your ring finger to fret the note and using as much of the rest of your hand to grip the neck while you vibrato. That seems to dampen the neck a touch and lets the note sustain a touch longer.

Good luck, but try not to obsess over it. The note probably sustains well enough at other spots on the neck.

Idk if my capo wasn't heavy enough but I put one on the headstock and it didn't do anything. It isn't so much a lack of sustain, it actually sustains fine it is more that it just doesn't sound good. I get the note but it is lifeless compared to every other fret on the board.

 

[shredhead7]

Are the notes one fret up or down on the same string giving you a similar result? Usually with what you are describing it is the fret one half step up that is a little raised, and simply tapping with a hammer, where the string passes over it will clear up the dead spot.

 

[cardinal]

Try just planting it against something like a desk or door jam. If it's a resonance issue, it can manifest as a wolftone or crazy sounding note.

But it also could be a high or low fret. Try rocking a credit card over three frets at a time and see if it's obvious.

 

[maddnotez]

Try just planting it against something like a desk or door jam. If it's a resonance issue, it can manifest as a wolftone or crazy sounding note.

But it also could be a high or low fret. Try rocking a credit card over three frets at a time and see if it's obvious.

Will do the CC trick, was going to order a fret rocker but I guess that will work the same. Not sure what you mean by planting it against a desk.

Are the notes one fret up or down on the same string giving you a similar result? Usually with what you are describing it is the fret one half step up that is a little raised, and simply tapping with a hammer, where the string passes over it will clear up the dead spot.

No just this one fret.

 

[cardinal]

I mean hold the guitar in playing position and press the headstock firmly into a desk or door jam or heavy piece of furniture while playing that note. If it suddenly sustains, then it's a dead spot. If there's no change, probably an issue with the frets.

 

[maddnotez]

I mean hold the guitar in playing position and press the headstock firmly into a desk or door jam or heavy piece of furniture while playing that note. If it suddenly sustains, then it's a dead spot. If there's no change, probably an issue with the frets.

Ah ok. As to create more resonance through the extra wood.

 

[cardinal]

I mean hold the guitar in playing position and press the headstock firmly into a desk or door jam or heavy piece of furniture while playing that note. If it suddenly sustains, then it's a dead spot. If there's no change, probably an issue with the frets.

Ah ok. As to create more resonance through the extra wood.

Yeah, it's to dampen the neck vibrations. If the neck has a resonance frequency that matches a fretted note, the neck will vibrate strongly and steal energy from the string, giving you a weak and strange sounding note. But if you can dampen the neck, the energy should stay in the string.

Of course, from your description right now, it could be a fret issue. Easy to try and see if it helps.

 

[maddnotez]

I mean hold the guitar in playing position and press the headstock firmly into a desk or door jam or heavy piece of furniture while playing that note. If it suddenly sustains, then it's a dead spot. If there's no change, probably an issue with the frets.

Ah ok. As to create more resonance through the extra wood.

Yeah, it's to dampen the neck vibrations. If the neck has a resonance frequency that matches a fretted note, the neck will vibrate strongly and steal energy from the string, giving you a weak and strange sounding note. But if you can dampen the neck, the energy should stay in the string.

Of course, from your description right now, it could be a fret issue. Easy to try and see if it helps.

Thanks for the tips. Gonna try it tonight. I had enough time to use my Credit Card as a rocker when I got home before I left. Not sure if there's a trick or anything that might be hard to see but there was no play or gaps anywhere at all so I'm starting to think it's just the resonance of this guitar related to that fret.

Based on this theory, if that's the issue I'm guessing there is nothing I can do but to just deal with it? I'm wondering also, if I tuned up or down a step should the "dead" not shift to another fret? Meaning it's the note and not the fret?

It's really not all that bad, I do get a note so it's not completely dead. I'd call it more lifeless vs dead but I'm a stickler.

Again, this is acoustically. I'm going to plug in this weekend to see if I can hear it through the amp. I might even test with some amp sims tonight but first will try your resonance test.

 

[Chester Nimitz]

Dave Anderson Tritone Guitars Pro fret level & setup $120.

He has done 6 of my guitars, thank me later.

http://tritone-guitars.com/

 

[maddnotez]

Dave Anderson Tritone Guitars Pro fret level & setup $120.

He has done 6 of my guitars, thank me later.

http://tritone-guitars.com/

That's who actually wired the pickup I have in it. Good guy, great tech. Definitely had him in the back of my head if I can't figure this out on my own.

 

[cardinal]

I mean hold the guitar in playing position and press the headstock firmly into a desk or door jam or heavy piece of furniture while playing that note. If it suddenly sustains, then it's a dead spot. If there's no change, probably an issue with the frets.

Ah ok. As to create more resonance through the extra wood.

Yeah, it's to dampen the neck vibrations. If the neck has a resonance frequency that matches a fretted note, the neck will vibrate strongly and steal energy from the string, giving you a weak and strange sounding note. But if you can dampen the neck, the energy should stay in the string.

Of course, from your description right now, it could be a fret issue. Easy to try and see if it helps.

Thanks for the tips. Gonna try it tonight. I had enough time to use my Credit Card as a rocker when I got home before I left. Not sure if there's a trick or anything that might be hard to see but there was no play or gaps anywhere at all so I'm starting to think it's just the resonance of this guitar related to that fret.

Based on this theory, if that's the issue I'm guessing there is nothing I can do but to just deal with it? I'm wondering also, if I tuned up or down a step should the "dead" not shift to another fret? Meaning it's the note and not the fret?

It's really not all that bad, I do get a note so it's not completely dead. I'd call it more lifeless vs dead but I'm a stickler.

Again, this is acoustically. I'm going to plug in this weekend to see if I can hear it through the amp. I might even test with some amp sims tonight but first will try your resonance test.

If it is a deadspot, it will follow the note as you change tuning. Often, you can bend a note into it an listen to it die.

And if it is a deadspot, you can try various tricks. If it had a trem, try to block it or change the sustain block to anything different that could change the resonance. You can add weight to the headstock with a capo or the Fender Fat Finger. IME, it's very sensitive to where on the headstock you place the weight. Some places will have no impact, while others will move the spot up or down a few frets.

Best thing is just play in a different position if you want that note to sustain.

 

[jlb32]

Not much help from me but I've had a few guitars with dead spots/frets and it was a nightmare. Really never found a great solution personally. Once I knew they were there and I couldn't fix them it just annoyed me more. Those guitars are now gone.

 

[maddnotez]

Weird shit.

I raised the bridge and provided more relief to no gains but when I tune a step up sure enough it is now on the 16th fret. Not as noticeable and it was barely noticeable before but it's there. Something about that note. Guess I'm sol. It's not a huge deal but it is what it is.

Gonna bring it to the tech when I get the extra money. Thanks for all the help and replies.

Edit: As funny as it sounds I am also going to try some different strings tonight. I have never noticed this issue before. Yes, it may have been because I have not been riding that fret until now but if I recall I checked each fret when I got the guitar and didn't notice anything bad. It is something I always do. While my memory is bad and I cannot guarantee myself I did, I would bet money on it.

So I have been talking to some luthiers about this and one guy actually said to try different strings before I go spending money. Worst case I have some new strings but he said he has gotten some "bad" strings that just sounded really bad or fray at the ball and is worth checking. The strings are brand new but I did get a 3 pack from Amazon because the price was so much cheaper and who knows how long they have sat or what kind of strings they are getting from D'Addario.

I would feel so good and so stupid at the same time if that is the issue

 

[Chester Nimitz]

If you get a fret level & setup from Dave your guitar will be like new and different than before plus it will have more output & sustain.

I have bought most of my guitars used the last 35 years used but never has a Pro setup until a few months ago.

The difference was so dramatic i had all my axes done.

Plus Dave is a cool dewd, you can hangout in his shop while its being done, takes about an hour per guitar.

He can do refrets, repairs whatever. Refrets you would have to drop it off.

 

[cardinal]

Yeah, if there's a guitar you like, spending $100 to get a quality fret level is money very well spent.

But no setup or fret level can fix a resonance-based deadspot. You'd have to change the resonance frequency of the guitar either by making part of it stiffer, more pliable, heavier, or lighter.

Hope it's just a bum string. But really I'd try not to worry about it. ABSOLUTELY DON'T DO THIS, but I'll bet if you check every guitar you can find, there's at least one dead spot. You just have to hope that it's in a spot where you don't try to sustain a long note.

 

[maddnotez]

If you get a fret level & setup from Dave your guitar will be like new and different than before plus it will have more output & sustain.

I have bought most of my guitars used the last 35 years used but never has a Pro setup until a few months ago.

The difference was so dramatic i had all my axes done.

Plus Dave is a cool dewd, you can hangout in his shop while its being done, takes about an hour per guitar.

He can do refrets, repairs whatever. Refrets you would have to drop it off.

Yeah he is pretty awesome. I don't know much about this stuff but isn't a fret level where they shave some of the frets away and recrown them?

I would be worried to do that if it didn't "need" that but either way he could take a look and tell me what's up.

 

[maddnotez]

ABSOLUTELY DON'T DO THIS, but I'll bet if you check every guitar you can find, there's at least one dead spot. .

That was the first thing that I did when I pulled out the Ibanez last night. Now THAT guitar may need a level because 15-19 or so buzzez like crazy on the bass side but even with all of that buzzing it sounded like buzz full of life and I could not find a single dead spot. (Maybe that will change after the guitar is set up and good to go)

 

[Chester Nimitz]

If you get a fret level & setup from Dave your guitar will be like new and different than before plus it will have more output & sustain.

I have bought most of my guitars used the last 35 years used but never has a Pro setup until a few months ago.

The difference was so dramatic i had all my axes done.

Plus Dave is a cool dewd, you can hangout in his shop while its being done, takes about an hour per guitar.

He can do refrets, repairs whatever. Refrets you would have to drop it off.

Yeah he is pretty awesome. I don't know much about this stuff but isn't a fret level where they shave some of the frets away and recrown them?

I would be worried to do that if it didn't "need" that but either way he could take a look and tell me what's up.

He uses a straight egde to find the flat spots 2 frets at a time then he gets a 3D image in his head of just which frets need leveling and which dont and levels those that need it, then he uses 2 different crowning files, then he cleans the board with naptha & polishes all the frets with at least 11 different grits & oils & retunes your guitar.

Vibrato on sting bends is effortless after.

You may need just one fret replaced, or it could be a bridge saddle or at the nut.

There isnt anything he can't fix.

Believe me for over 35 year every guitar ive had had some sort of issues.

That SG i just got really needed a refret but we didn't know that going in. Dave spent over 2 hours and got life into the frets but it cost me a little more.